Voice over IP connectivity

[RH.Campbell]

Recently, I had occasion to interface my first alarm with VoIP. Everything
seems to work as per normal; the panel tests properly to the station and
reports correctly (even using the older 4/2 format). However, when I dialed
in to the panel to check settings, it answered properly using the answering
machine override function, but then it couldn't handshake properly. It kept
trying, and eventually gave up and hung up.

So I'm left wondering if this is the shape of things to come with
conventional alarm panels. Anyone had experiences good or bad interfacing
with VoIP service ?

I'm told ADT may have some sort of interface device they plug in to the
circuit to compensate...

R.H.Campbell
Home Security Metal Products
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
www.homemetal.com

 

[Spike]

How do you provide line seizure in a case like this, Bob? And if you can't
download... Seems to me I made a mental note of avoiding this a ways back
from something I read here.

We should get some dealers together, approach Protectron and get them to set
up an long range RF system like this...
http://www.aes-intellinet.com/index.cfm

 

[RH.Campbell]

Line seizure is provided in the normal way. The little box that goes in for
VoIP is ahead of everything else. The alarm provides exclusion behind the
box but ahead of the phones as per normal. However, there seems to be
something in the "translation" from VoIP to normal dial tone that hinders
the uploads to a panel.

I have only this one experience to go on so my conclusions may be faulty.
However, I could find nothing else that could affect it but that "little
black box" that forms a basic part of VoIP service.....

RHC

 

[Julian]

I am actually going to move in 2 weeks and im switching to vonage to give
them a shot for a line and a fax line. They advertise free fax lines for
business's so i would sure as hell hope fax machines work.

 

[RH.Campbell]

Hmmm....I don't normally see Jim's posts since I have him blocked, but when
copied like this one, I see them. Good post !!

This "inconsistency" is kind of scary, since an alarm that is not reliable
is worse than useless, since it gives one a false sense of security. I think
this is going to have to be something that the alarm industry is going to
have to come to terms with, either through a hardware solution a la the ADSL
filter solution, or the development of a consistent approach to clients who
insist on using this technology.

Good question about the fax ! Anyone know ?

RHC

I am actually going to move in 2 weeks and im switching to vonage to give
them a shot for a line and a fax line. They advertise free fax lines for
business's so i would sure as hell hope fax machines work.

 

[Mark Leuck]

Bad thing is way too many things can go wrong here

1. If the internet traffic between the cable modem and your ISP goes down
you have no phones
2. If the cable modem goes bad you have no phones
3. If the VOIP goes down you have no phones

No phones = no security, I wouldn't install on VOIP without a cellular
backup

 

[Mark Leuck]

Per meeting with the local cable company here ........ in addition to all of
the other bad things about VoIP related to alarm systems, one of the consistent
things about it is ........... it doesn't necessarily work ..........
consistently.

That is ......... your panel may work ok when you set it up but you can't count
on it working when you need it.

Local cable company is now notifiying people in their promotional literature
that their VoIP may not be compatable with alarm systems. If people insist on
VoIP, then the have to have a backup means of central station reporting......
which completely negates any saving they might gain or they must maintain a
land line connection for the alarm.

I never asked anyone about this, but it just occured to me .......... does
anyone know if a Fax machine will work on VoIP?

I can't see why not however it ends up being try it and see

 

[petem]

Robert have you tried to use this line to do a download of panel..
either from the voip fax line to a regular line with the panel
or from a regular line to a panel connected to the voip fax line?

 

[RH.Campbell]

No, I havent. This client doesn't have a VoIP fax line to my knowledge, but
I will check with him and try the whole business over again.

RHC

 

[Nick Markowitz]

I have written several manufactuers about Voip and all have stated they do
not recomend using a dialer nd instead using tcp/ip conectivty such as
alarmnet I ,dsc tcp/ip etc. It apears none of them are intrested in comming
out with a converter to properly filter it either 3rd party company like
excelsiuis with there dsl filter will propably work something out eventualy.
I see Voip as a big danger along with broadband cable phones,T1 channel
nbanks in buisness phoe systems etc because there easily knocked out in bad
storms etc compared to Pots which keeps working even after tornado came thru
my way 5 years ago mysef and most of my niehbors had phone the broadand
people even cell phones were out.

--
Nick Markowitz Jr.
Owner
Markowitz Electric Protection
Private Industry Fire Investigator
Exclusive Correspondant North Boroughs Fire news.com
Contributing Editor Pa. Firemans Magazine
Contributing Writer www. Security Mission .com
Senior Corespondant 1st Responder news

 

[petem]

Unlike DSL, VOIP isn't a case where the signal is coming through riding on-top
of and with other information that can be resolved with a filter. It's data
packets that can actually become disassembled or stalled in the transmission.
In a voice application, it will just sound like a little static or distortion,
to the panel it's jumbled information. SDM has an excellent article on this
with a good explanation of the potential problems. It's worth the read.

Rob-

True i have seen the article..but from the understanding that i have of VOIP
FAX service,its a bit different then the voice service

they surely inplemented something to help cure some latency problem...or it
could be that the fax tone are emulated at both end (VOIP converter at
client and at CO) then the data captured by the emulated tone sent digitaly
to the other end..but that would be quite a challenge...

or its a line with less compression or no compression..

cause the problem is cause by the modem loosing sinc cause of latency....i
had a similar problem at a cutsomer about a year ago,
he had a remote controler(building next door) for its access system that he
connected to by modem..(2 us robotics 28.8 k external sporster)

the customer swithed his analog telephone system to a ip system,and used 2
analog to ip converter to reestablish the connection..
it would work once every 5 try ,when it would connect data would start to
flow,but if the system had too many stuff in its buffer to unload that
connection would unsinc and the modem would try to reconnect ,would fail
then the whole process was restarting..
4 or 5 dialing one connection then pouf loosing it again..

in the end he had to use 2 fax line with ring selector to reconnect to the
syte but only on a needed basis not as before where he was in constent
connection..(after a few month of doing this we swithed the software from a
old winpass to a entrepass corporate and connect to the remote controler by
ip using a uds10)

 

[Nick Markowitz]

I can not see the advantage of voip vs pricing in my area verizon has a
great plan that includes unlimted lcal and toll plus dsl for 29.95 month
for voip i would have to have some type of broad band any way plus a phone
fee cable broadband is expensive
so i do not see any advantage unless you make alot of overseas calls.


--
Nick Markowitz Jr.
Owner
Markowitz Electric Protection
Private Industry Fire Investigator
Exclusive Correspondant North Boroughs Fire news.com
Contributing Editor Pa. Firemans Magazine
Contributing Writer www. Security Mission .com
Senior Corespondant 1st Responder news