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Using Alternative Energy for only part of Home Electric

S

Shy Picker

Jan 1, 1970
0
I was wondering if it would be easier but worth it to set up an alternative
energy source like solar or wind to just run the water heater or the Heat
Pump or do those items use so much energy that you are better off just going
for a whole home system?

The most energy my home has used in a month is 1866 KWH. It was when I was
using the Heat Pump a lot March. The least amount of eclectic used for a
month was 738 KWH in October.

It looks like it would take a huge cash layout to get a whole house system
for that kind of usage. So I was wondering if it would be worth it to use
Alternative Energy for just part of the house.

Thanks, David
 
V

Vaughn Simon

Jan 1, 1970
0
Shy Picker said:
It looks like it would take a huge cash layout to get a whole house system for
that kind of usage. So I was wondering if it would be worth it to use
Alternative Energy for just part of the house.
Unless you have a great local subsidy program to help you pay for your
system, it will likely be a money pit regardless of the size you make it. If
you include financing costs, opportunity costs, property tax, depreciation &
maintenance, you will never even break even.

Solar hot water may be an exception to that rule depending on your usage and
local conditions.

Start out by investing in conservation. Think about sealing and insulating
your house, maximizing solar gain in the winter and minimizing it in the summer,
seek out and replace all incandescent lighting, evaluate your 'fridge, and
evaluate your heating & AC system for replacement with a more efficient unit.

Vaughn
 
U

Ulysses

Jan 1, 1970
0
Shy Picker said:
I was wondering if it would be easier but worth it to set up an alternative
energy source like solar or wind to just run the water heater or the Heat
Pump or do those items use so much energy that you are better off just going
for a whole home system?

The most energy my home has used in a month is 1866 KWH. It was when I was
using the Heat Pump a lot March. The least amount of eclectic used for a
month was 738 KWH in October.

I'm speachless. I use about 4.5 kWh/day. Maybe 5 on a bad day.
 
A

amdx

Jan 1, 1970
0
Shy Picker said:
I was wondering if it would be easier but worth it to set up an alternative
energy source like solar or wind to just run the water heater or the Heat
Pump or do those items use so much energy that you are better off just
going for a whole home system?

The most energy my home has used in a month is 1866 KWH. It was when I was
using the Heat Pump a lot March. The least amount of eclectic used for a
month was 738 KWH in October.

It looks like it would take a huge cash layout to get a whole house system
for that kind of usage. So I was wondering if it would be worth it to use
Alternative Energy for just part of the house.

Thanks, David
 
A

amdx

Jan 1, 1970
0
Shy Picker said:
I was wondering if it would be easier but worth it to set up an alternative
energy source like solar or wind to just run the water heater or the Heat
Pump or do those items use so much energy that you are better off just
going for a whole home system?

The most energy my home has used in a month is 1866 KWH. It was when I was
using the Heat Pump a lot March. The least amount of eclectic used for a
month was 738 KWH in October.

It looks like it would take a huge cash layout to get a whole house system
for that kind of usage. So I was wondering if it would be worth it to use
Alternative Energy for just part of the house.

Thanks, David
I'm in the process of locating a free power meter (I can't see spending
$85.00 in an effort to save money) to connect to my water heater to measure
how much it costs to run per month. Then I hope to put a low cost solar
heating system together. I was at the metal scrapyard today, sure wish I
could make some of those large radiators work in a solar collector.
Mike
 
S

Shy Picker

Jan 1, 1970
0
amdx said:
I'm in the process of locating a free power meter (I can't see spending
$85.00 in an effort to save money) to connect to my water heater to
measure how much it costs to run per month. Then I hope to put a low cost
solar heating system together. I was at the metal scrapyard today, sure
wish I could make some of those large radiators work in a solar collector.
Mike

Radiators? I seem to remember people getting lead poisoning from using
radiators in the distilling of moonshine.

Be careful.

David
 
S

Shy Picker

Jan 1, 1970
0
Ulysses said:
I'm speachless. I use about 4.5 kWh/day. Maybe 5 on a bad day.
Wow, do you even turn on a light? :)

I live in an old farm house that was first built in 1910. But I have done a
lot of improvements.

The water heater is about 10 years old.

The Heat Pump is only 2 years old but I use it for air conditioning more
than heating. I have a pellet stove that I use a lot for heat but it doesn't
keep the adjacent rooms very warm. But a pellet stove is high maintenance
and when it is being serviced, I only have the heat pump for backup and that
takes a lot of energy,

I already use a lot of those new light bulbs but I have to leave the living
room light on all night because my wife had a terrible head injury accident
a few years ago and she is up a lot at night to watch tv and I can't take a
chance of her falling in the dark.

I have several ceiling fans to move the air around and they are on a lot but
I just saw a report that says that they are not very helpful compared to the
energy they use.

I got a new 50" LCD TV so the wife can see it better and it is on a lot but
that can't be helped because she needs the distraction.

Those are a few of the circumstances around here.

Thanks, David
 
E

Eeyore

Jan 1, 1970
0
Shy said:
I was wondering if it would be easier but worth it to set up an alternative
energy source like solar or wind to just run the water heater or the Heat
Pump or do those items use so much energy that you are better off just going
for a whole home system?

The most energy my home has used in a month is 1866 KWH. It was when I was
using the Heat Pump a lot March. The least amount of eclectic used for a
month was 738 KWH in October.

It looks like it would take a huge cash layout to get a whole house system
for that kind of usage. So I was wondering if it would be worth it to use
Alternative Energy for just part of the house.

Your best bet BY FAR is to look at energy efficiency measures to reduce your
usage. Any alternative energy method of less than immense cost will only nibble
away at figures that huge.

Look at direct thermal solar water heating for one. And insulation. Lots of
insulation.

Graham
 
E

Eeyore

Jan 1, 1970
0
Vaughn said:
Unless you have a great local subsidy program to help you pay for your
system, it will likely be a money pit regardless of the size you make it. If
you include financing costs, opportunity costs, property tax, depreciation &
maintenance, you will never even break even.

Solar hot water may be an exception to that rule depending on your usage and
local conditions.

Start out by investing in conservation. Think about sealing and insulating
your house, maximizing solar gain in the winter and minimizing it in the summer,
seek out and replace all incandescent lighting, evaluate your 'fridge, and
evaluate your heating & AC system for replacement with a more efficient unit.

Vaughn

100% agreed.

Graham
 
D

Daniel Who Wants to Know

Jan 1, 1970
0
amdx said:
I'm in the process of locating a free power meter (I can't see spending
$85.00 in an effort to save money) to connect to my water heater to
measure how much it costs to run per month. Then I hope to put a low cost
solar heating system together. I was at the metal scrapyard today, sure
wish I could make some of those large radiators work in a solar collector.
Mike

Here is a simple solution for an electric water heater usage monitor, just
use a simple hour meter like one you might find on a generator or lawn
tractor and connect it across the switched terminals of the 2 heating
elements using a cheap 240V-12V wall wart. Since the water heater is a
simple resistance device you only need to record the number of hours shown
on the meter after 1 month and multiply it by the rated wattage of the water
heater to get watt-hours per month (divide by 1000 to get KWh). Here is how
it works: When both elements are off there is no voltage difference between
the 2 switched terminals and the meter doesn't run. Since water heaters
never run both elements at the same time while on when either the top or
bottom element is on the power is supplied by the one that is on and returns
through the one that is off so the meter runs in either case. The only
caveat is that the water heater must use single pole thermostats for both
the upper and lower elements and both elements must be rated for the same
wattage and voltage.

For accuracy I would measure the actual voltage at the water heater with it
operating and see how close it is to the rated voltage as if it is not close
to the same it will make your calculation wrong. For instance assume a 4500
watt @ 230V element but your power is actually 208 instead. 4500/230=19.57
amps 230/19.57=11.75 ohms. 208/11.75=17.70 amps 17.7x208=3682 watts. As
you can see the element would only be using about 82% of its rated wattage
and that could throw your KWh per month figure off by quite a bit. It is
worse if the rating is at 240V as a heating element rated for a certain
wattage @ 240 will only use 75% of that number when on 208.
 
M

M Q

Jan 1, 1970
0
Daniel Who Wants to Know wrote:

....
Here is a simple solution for an electric water heater usage monitor, just
use a simple hour meter like one you might find on a generator or lawn
tractor and connect it across the switched terminals of the 2 heating
elements using a cheap 240V-12V wall wart. Since the water heater is a
....
You can get 240V (and 120V) Hobbs hour meters.
I buy them on Ebay and use them for run time monitoring of power
hungry devices.
 
U

Ulysses

Jan 1, 1970
0
Shy Picker said:
Wow, do you even turn on a light? :)

I live in an old farm house that was first built in 1910. But I have done a
lot of improvements.

The water heater is about 10 years old.

The Heat Pump is only 2 years old but I use it for air conditioning more
than heating. I have a pellet stove that I use a lot for heat but it doesn't
keep the adjacent rooms very warm. But a pellet stove is high maintenance
and when it is being serviced, I only have the heat pump for backup and that
takes a lot of energy,

I have an open, airy, 1900 sq/ft house and we use our fireplace and one of
those tank-top propane heaters. You are not supposed to use them indoors
but, from what I've read, the problem is oxygen consumption and not-so-much
carbon monoxide. You can't fall asleep with it on. By having the heater
running in the family room with the ceiling fan on medium (blowing upwards)
it makes all but the bedrooms comfortable. My house is two years old and is
very well insulated. If we get it up to about 66 degrees F, stop putting
wood in the fireplace, and turn off the propane heater it will be around
59-60 degrees in the house when we get up in the morning even if it's 10-15
below zero outside. I live in the desert and have no air conditioning. We
have a small swimming pool and use small fans. I also have a homebrew
evaporative cooler that, if it gets that bad, you just sit in front of.
Yesterday it was only about 100 outside but the air from the cooler was 63.
Very comfortable for me. At night, except on the hottest nights, we use
some small 120mm brushless DC fans (for cooling electronics) connected to a
suitable wallwart (transformer) and put it on the windowsill blowing cool
outside air in. They use about 8-12 watts and I'm completely comfortable at
night. My evaporative cooler uses about 102-112 watts depending upon the
fan speed. On really hot nights we use a 20" box fan (95-100 watts
according to my Kill A Watt) in the windowsill blowing in.


I'm going to build a solar pre-heater for my water heater as soon as I
finish some other projects. I live in South California and it's almost
always sunny here. My 650 gallon water tank is on top of my hill (gravity
feed) and the water temp is usually warm enough for me (but not my wife and
daughters) by the end of the day. The gravity feed also eliminates the need
for a pump to pressurize the system.
I already use a lot of those new light bulbs but I have to leave the living
room light on all night because my wife had a terrible head injury accident
a few years ago and she is up a lot at night to watch tv and I can't take a
chance of her falling in the dark.

I leave a white LED solar-powered Malibu light on at night (if there's no
moon). It might not be enough light for your purposes but for us we can
walk through most of the house without stepping on the dogs or tripping over
anything. Some of the CF light bulbs only use about 13 watts so that is not
a significant draw. We are using a generator to charge our batteries and
when we turn it off at night for the most part we use oil lamps. Some are
brighter than others and some lamp oil burns brighter than other oil. But
you can't fall asleep with them on.


I have several ceiling fans to move the air around and they are on a lot but
I just saw a report that says that they are not very helpful compared to the
energy they use.

My bedroom ceiling fan is rated for 8, 28, and 57 watts. My little
oscillating fan uses 30 or 40 watts. Personally I feel a lot more breeze
from 30 watts on the little fan than I do with 57 watts on the ceiling fan.
Ceiling fans, however, are great for circulating warm air in the winter by
reversing the direction.
I got a new 50" LCD TV so the wife can see it better and it is on a lot but
that can't be helped because she needs the distraction.

So that makes it a necessity. When not using our TV and DVD stuff it gets
unplugged (via a power strip switch). I have to wait a couple of minutes
after repowering the satellite receiver before I can use it but I just plan
for it. We also unplug the laptop computer and microwave when not in use.
All of these draw a little current when plugged in which may not be
significant if you are on the grid but can be if you are running from
batteries, especially if you are burning fuel to charge the batteries. In
any case you might find that you could reduce your consumption a little by
unplugging stuff that you don't use very often.

Like others suggested reducing your consumption and and increasing your
insulation is likely to make much more sense financially. Solar panels and
wind generators make living off the grid viable but it takes a long time to
see a return on your investment and according to some statistics most people
don't live in one house long enough to ever see that, Hopefully they will
get more for their house because of solar panels etc but it might be like
putting in a swimming pool--it raises your property taxes but not
necessarily your resale value because many people don't want a swimming
pool.
 
D

Daniel Who Wants to Know

Jan 1, 1970
0
M Q said:
Daniel Who Wants to Know wrote:

...
...
You can get 240V (and 120V) Hobbs hour meters.
I buy them on Ebay and use them for run time monitoring of power
hungry devices.

Good to know as it would save a voltage conversion and some equipment. I
only mentioned the low voltage hour meters as I wasn't aware that line/mains
voltage ones were available.
 
V

Vaughn Simon

Jan 1, 1970
0
Measuring your water heater electric useage isn't meaningful unless
you can reduce it,

Not so! Knowing how much you are paying for your hot water energy can help you
to compare possible alternatives. Perhaps you might profitably scrap an
electric heater for gas, or solar, or heat recovery from a central AC system, or
even one of those new heat pump hot water heaters.

Vaughn
 
U

Ulysses

Jan 1, 1970
0
Ulysses said:
My house is two years old and is
very well insulated. If we get it up to about 66 degrees F, stop putting
wood in the fireplace, and turn off the propane heater it will be around
59-60 degrees in the house when we get up in the morning even if it's 10-15
below zero outside.

Oops. I meant 10-15 below freezing. It doesn't get THAT cold here.
 
P

Paul Carmichael

Jan 1, 1970
0
El Sun, 03 Aug 2008 10:57:51 -0700, Ulysses escribió:
Oops. I meant 10-15 below freezing. It doesn't get THAT cold here.

Most of the world knew what you meant the first time, as nobody outside
of the USA actually uses farenheit any more.
 
P

Paul Carmichael

Jan 1, 1970
0
El Sat, 02 Aug 2008 14:15:09 -0700, Jim Wilkins escribió:
A "Kill A Watt" meter will help you analyze your Goreish electric
consumption.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=93519

Does anyone here know of a european version of this?

I'd like to know why my electric bill is the highest in the village at
700KW per month. I just assumed it's the computers and the pool pump, but
I've spoken with folks that have the same stuff and bills half the size.
 
A

amdx

Jan 1, 1970
0
The meaning is in knowing how much I reduce it.
You may get more typical results if they don't know you're checking.

That's the RED HAT affect.
Wear a red hat while driving and you will get better fuel mileage.
Knowing you have your red hat on to get better mileage, will cause you
to be a little lighter on the gas pedal.
It has to be true I saw it on the net!
Mike
 
U

Ulysses

Jan 1, 1970
0
Paul Carmichael said:
El Sat, 02 Aug 2008 14:15:09 -0700, Jim Wilkins escribió:


Does anyone here know of a european version of this?

Hmmm, it seems to me this was discussed in this NG very recently. Maybe
just scrolling down and reading the pertinent-sounding threads might reveal
it. But, of course, threads can change direction rather quickly around
here.
 
T

Trygve Lillefosse

Jan 1, 1970
0
El Sat, 02 Aug 2008 14:15:09 -0700, Jim Wilkins escribió:


Does anyone here know of a european version of this?

You should be able to get one at your nearest hardware store. Be aware
that prices on theese units can wary quite a lot from shop to shop.
 
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