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Up yours Black & Decker.

Discussion in 'Electronic Repair' started by ian field, May 31, 2007.

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  1. ian field

    ian field Guest

    Yesterday I went to the tool store for a replacement battery pack for my
    KC14C Black & Decker cordless drill, as the previously repaired shorted
    cells had burned out the charger - for which I'd since found a replacement
    transformer, I also asked for a price on this item, and the batter had since
    started self discharging.

    The battery was over £46 & the charger over £18 the £46 is about what I
    originally bought the drill for (special offer) and at the cut price DIY
    store I could buy 3 cordless hammer drills for the combined price!

    A quick rummage in the junk box turned up an Electrolux battery pack with 12
    cells (I assume its for a cordless vacuum cleaner) The cells were slightly
    longer than the ones in the B&D pack, but that turned out not to be a
    problem since the impressively sized battery pack is half full of plastic
    spacer - once this was taken out and thrown away the bigger cells fit just
    fine, the battery inside the connector stem took a little more effort, it
    has a plastic cap inside that centres the cell with moulded plastic webbing
    to take up the slack of the shorter cell, it was easy to break most of this
    away with pointed pliers and mill out the rest with a rotary drill bit in
    the modelling/PCB drill.

    Interestingly, a while back I found a 12V version of the drill put out by
    the bins - which I obviously grabbed in case any spares were good for mine,
    it turned out that all 10 cells were S/C and as usual this had burned out
    the transformer. The cells were easy to "unstick" with a 12V SLA and I put
    it on charge with a replacement transformer (Hayes modem transformer), it
    has since worked fine with no evidence of undue self discharge.

    Obviously B&D supply crap batteries with their tools, and I noticed that
    when I phoned B&D to ask about spares their recorded message announced
    "De-Walt and Black & Decker tools" so you won't get any better there either!
    Indeed I've seen one or two threads on this group by people having trouble
    with De-Walt batteries as well!

    So there you go Black & Decker - if you weren't such greedy bastards you
    would have made some money out of me, but instead you tried to rip me off -
    so I fixed it myself, improved your crap product and told everyone what a
    load of crap your product is!
     
  2. JR North

    JR North Guest

    The folks in R.C.M. would appreciate this.
    JR

     
  3. me

    me Guest

    yeah! The rat bastards!
     
  4. Soon to be taken over by Lucas?
     
  5. Hi!
    I could tell you about a lightly used Dustbuster that spent most of its life
    on the charger. This in turn caused the batteries to burn up after a
    relatively short service lifetime--maybe only two years, if that many.

    I found out that--just as you say--the replacement parts are astronomically
    priced whether purchased from B&D or elsewhere. I didn't have any sub-C
    cells in the junkbox, and bigger ones didn't seem to work as a replacement.
    They wouldn't fit.
    It's not only that--it's also rather unkind to the environment to toss an
    otherwise working piece of equipment and buy a new one only to have the same
    thing happen. But I guess they don't really care and have slim profit
    margins on each tool, so they don't really care.

    I ended up saving the interesting parts from the unit, and tossing the rest.

    William
     
  6. Mike Berger

    Mike Berger Guest

    The same company owns Black & Decker and DeWalt, but it doesn't
    mean the product lines are identical. I use my DeWalt 18 v.
    driver and trimsaw regularly, and the original battery packs
    are still at about 95% capacity after six years.

    I use them until they are discharged, and then I recharge them.

    Maybe you are less careful with your battery packs, and
    that's why you have problems.
     
  7. I've got a 12V Dewalt drill that I've had for a long time - probably
    7-8 years or more. I too am careful with the packs and they have
    held up well until recently. Within the last year one pack has
    developed fairly serious lack of capacity, and the other is beginning
    to show the signs. This is to be expected at this age...

    My beef with them is that new packs list at $79.99 (Canada) while
    a new 12v drill which comes with two packs is $159.99. This means
    that Dewalt/B&D consider the drill disposable, encouraging people
    to toss them in the landfull rather than replace the batteries. I'm sure
    I will be able to rebuild the packs for less than 1/2 that, but it leaves
    a bad taste...

    Dave
     
  8. ian field

    ian field Guest

     
  9. ian field

    ian field Guest

    If the equipment is properly designed, it is only necessary to completely
    run the batteries down to refresh them a few times a year.

    Running the battery down *every* time under load leads to cells being
    reverse charged and results in irrecoverable S/C cells!
     



  10. --
    Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
    prove it.
    Member of DAV #85.

    Michael A. Terrell
    Central Florida
     

  11. Your concept of "Running them down" goes too far. You switch battery
    packs as soon as it loses torque, and get it into the charger. DON'T
    overcharge, and always rotate all the batteries for even usage.


    Show me ANY tool maker that sells the batteries for much less than
    that ratio. You can always buy a $20 chinese drill with an $8 battery
    pack and throw away several drills a year when something breaks off
    inside. Those $8 packs are made with low capacity Ni-Cads, as well.


    --
    Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
    prove it.
    Member of DAV #85.

    Michael A. Terrell
    Central Florida
     
  12. I have a couple of cheap £20 drills at different locations, apart from
    slightly disappointing torque they seem every bit as robust as the B&D
    drills. The first one I bought, at the time a spare battery pack was about
    £5, the second one a spare battery was included in the carry case for the
    whole price of £20.

    Even when the B&D drill was new the £20 drill would always have enough
    charge to use while the B&D was recharging having self discharged over only
    a few weeks since last used!
     

  13. Good for you. but the cheap drills are almost useless to me. All
    they are used for is scrapping obsolete PCs. For anything else I get out
    a corded drill, or use my floor model drill press.

    BTW, if you guys think cordless tools are overpriced, the first one I
    saw was in the mid '60s and a new color TV cost less than the drill, and
    you could have bought a used service truck for less than a new battery.


    --
    Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
    prove it.
    Member of DAV #85.

    Michael A. Terrell
    Central Florida
     
  14. Jamie

    Jamie Guest

    I buy cheap no name brands like (All trade) cordless drills, they come
    with 2 Batteries, charger, case, drills and unit for $19.95 at our local
    club.
    And when the bat's fail, I save the motor,gear head and chuck to use
    to make servo things like Ham radio tuning antenna's for the vehicals.
     
  15. James Sweet

    James Sweet Guest

    B&D has been Chinese crap for years now, I quit buying their stuff a long
    time ago.
     
  16. But who needs to buy their stuff?

    My corded Black & Decker drill, variable speed but not reversible, was
    bought in December of 1975, for something like $30 (I can't remember the
    exact cost). The only thing I've had to do with it was replace the brushes
    in the early nineties. I've not needed to buy a drill since.

    The B&D drill press adaptor I bought a few years later, that still works
    fine.

    The B&D sabre saw I bought around 1977 still works fine.

    I did buy another B&D drill, a similar model a couple of years ago
    for $3.00 at a garage sale. The price was just too good, and you
    never know when you might need a spare.

    Michael
     
  17. Jamie

    Jamie Guest

    Which is why I buy the no-name brands for dirt cheap and pay a lot less

    I do have a recently purchased B&D cordless drill that employs a 12
    volt bat with extra bat and charger + carry case only because it was at
    my local club for cheap!. other than that! if I want cheap throw away
    crap i'd rather pay 19 bucks for a complete set up than pay 30+ bucks
    for a simply setup from B&D. since they are all made in the same place,
    I can't justify paying B&D that big mark up for the same crap that's
    made in the same place.

    To many use to be American brands trying to push crap from china with
    their name on it. A lot of people don't read close enough in the label.
    Some may say, "Oh, but it's made to B&D specifications" is is wrong
    basically, what they do is have a chinese maker present them an example
    designed and tested by chinese engineers and B&D saids "Great" we don't
    even have to pay for an engineering team any more.

    Oh well. I hope with the recent down fall of the stock market over
    there, people like B&D felt it.
     
  18. Dan

    Dan Guest

    < lots deleted >

    Many moons ago, one of my first cordless drills began to die slowly
    as its battery fled. In place of buying a new battery, I opted to
    shelve the unit and use a dewalt.

    Much later, the old unit came off the shelf, and after some
    inspection of the battery procured from a garage sale for 50 cents,
    I ended up using some gel cells from a TV camera power pack. Some
    power electronics inside the now empty battery, and I had me one
    cheap power pack. The gel belt weighs in at 15 Pounds, provides 4 to
    6 hours of juice. Battery death is about 1 in the past 10 years.
    Replace cost was $20 per module. Unit carries 15 modules in all,
    all supplying 12 Volts.

    Sometimes you gotta fix what they will not.
     
  19. ian field

    ian field Guest

    As far as I can tell, the cheap £19.95 drills with spare batteries I bought
    were made in Germany, the Chinese made B&D drills are marginally better for
    the short time the batteries last.
     
  20. Guest

    On 1 Jun, 15:49,
    why do people expect low volume goods to sell at the same prices pro
    rate as mass market goods? No use blaming B&D for the realities of
    business.


    NT
     
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