Unsecure Design?

[Jeff Wisnia]

This one happened with on one else looking, thank goodness...

SWMBO complained that her car's key fob door unlocker/horn blower gizmo
was getting "weak". ('98 Oldsmobile) I snapped it open, noted the
battery number and picked up a replacement at Rat Shack the next day.

I popped the new battery in and gave it a try....................."Nada"

I took it back into my workshop, checked that the battery was oriented
the same way the old one, and then started examining the little circuit
board with a loupe, hoping to discover a cracked joint. Nothing visibly
wrong there, so I peeled off the rubber keypad and found some not
unexpected greenish goop inside.*

I said to myself, "So that's what's wrong!" and cleaned the crud off
with alcohol.

Took it back outside again. Still nothing!

Back inside once more, opened it up hoping for a miracle, whereupon my
eye fell on some tiny "black on black" raised lettering on the inside of

the little devil's back cover reading, "After changing battery, place
near car and press Lock and Unlock buttons for 7 seconds".

Followed the instructions, and at the count of seven the car's horn
blipped once and all was well in River City again.

RTFI !!!

Now, I wonder what the hell that did? Could it have been programming the

car's receiver/decoder to match the xmitter? If so, it sure doesn't seem

a very secure system, does it?

_________________________________________________________________________

*The oily stuff I often find under the rubber keypads of our TV remotes
and similar gadgets when they start getting antsy about responding to
the keypresses. I was told years ago that it's oil from peoples fingers
which migrates right through the silicone (??) rubber, but I'm inclined
to think it's plasticisers coming out of the material. Anyway, wiping it

off with alcohol always seems to make them work like new again. Anybody
know more about this subject?

Jeff

 

[Jim Thompson]

This one happened with on one else looking, thank goodness...

SWMBO complained that her car's key fob door unlocker/horn blower gizmo
was getting "weak". ('98 Oldsmobile) I snapped it open, noted the [snip]
the little devil's back cover reading, "After changing battery, place
near car and press Lock and Unlock buttons for 7 seconds".

Followed the instructions, and at the count of seven the car's horn
blipped once and all was well in River City again.

RTFI !!!

Now, I wonder what the hell that did? Could it have been programming the

car's receiver/decoder to match the xmitter? If so, it sure doesn't seem

a very secure system, does it?
[snip]
Jeff

The Q45 remote programming requires the ignition key to be inserted
and removed three times within 5 seconds, then turned to "ON" before
it will accept the remote code.

It took me awhile and a call to the manufacturer to get the timing
just right ;-)

...Jim Thompson

 

[James Meyer]

RTFI !!!

Now, I wonder what the hell that did? Could it have been programming the

car's receiver/decoder to match the xmitter? If so, it sure doesn't seem

a very secure system, does it?

It's actually a very secure system. The transmitter and receiver employ
a "rolling code" so that the data sent by the transmitter is never the same data
from one keypress to the next. It's always different. This prevents someone
from recording the code and simply playing it back.

The transmitter and receiver keep track of each activation and
automatically change the code that is required for the next activation. When
you removed the battery, you allowed the memory of the last code sent to be
lost. The system has a fix built in. It involves the proceedure you used
(finally). The seven seconds are required for the receiver and transmitter to
become synchronized again with respect to the rolling code. The base code,
different for each T/R combination remains the same, and this prevents someone
with another transmitter from tricking the car into learning its rolling code
sequence.

Jim

 

[Ken Taylor]

This one happened with on one else looking, thank goodness...

SWMBO complained that her car's key fob door unlocker/horn blower gizmo
was getting "weak". ('98 Oldsmobile) I snapped it open, noted the [snip]
the little devil's back cover reading, "After changing battery, place
near car and press Lock and Unlock buttons for 7 seconds".

Followed the instructions, and at the count of seven the car's horn
blipped once and all was well in River City again.

RTFI !!!

Now, I wonder what the hell that did? Could it have been programming the

car's receiver/decoder to match the xmitter? If so, it sure doesn't seem

a very secure system, does it?
[snip]
Jeff

The Q45 remote programming requires the ignition key to be inserted
and removed three times within 5 seconds, then turned to "ON" before
it will accept the remote code.

It took me awhile and a call to the manufacturer to get the timing
just right ;-)

...Jim Thompson

Holly mackerel, did you have to stand on one leg while pointing south as
well?? You wouldn't just stumble on that by accident, eh?

Ken

 

[Jim Thompson]

Holly mackerel, did you have to stand on one leg while pointing south as
well?? You wouldn't just stumble on that by accident, eh?

Ken

No, you have it wrong, you have to *hop* on one leg while rotating
counter-clockwise, and simultaneously patting the top of your head ;-)

Seriously, the instruction manual was very vague, and I had to call
the remote manufacturer to get the sequence just right... very
frustrating.

I warned my wife that, if she lost another remote, she had to do the
programming herself ;-)

...Jim Thompson

 

[Jeff Wisnia]

It's actually a very secure system. The transmitter and receiver employ
a "rolling code" so that the data sent by the transmitter is never the same data
from one keypress to the next. It's always different. This prevents someone
from recording the code and simply playing it back.

The transmitter and receiver keep track of each activation and
automatically change the code that is required for the next activation. When
you removed the battery, you allowed the memory of the last code sent to be
lost. The system has a fix built in. It involves the proceedure you used
(finally). The seven seconds are required for the receiver and transmitter to
become synchronized again with respect to the rolling code. The base code,
different for each T/R combination remains the same, and this prevents someone
with another transmitter from tricking the car into learning its rolling code
sequence.

Jim

I follow that explanation, but it brings two questions to mind:

1. How does the rolling code handle someone fiddling with the fob when out of range
of the car, maybe nervously presing buttons on it while in a movie theater or
something?

2. If there *is* a "base code", then there must be a way to get the car to recognize
the base code of a replacement fob, as this place will sell you an OEM replacement
fob without requiring any more info than the car's make, year and model.

http://www.keylessride.com/order/options.asp?make=Oldsmobile&remoteyear=1998&model=Eighty-Eight

Assuming not all fobs use the same base code (perhaps there's 256 or more different
base code variations in the same model fob) is there maybe some hidden "switch" or
other triggering means in the car to get it into a training mode so it can learn the
"base code".

Jeff (Who's old enough to remember when he could actually fit his head under a car's
dash, see the back end of the ignition switch and it's wiring, and "hotwire it" in
less than a minute.)

 

[Jim Thompson]

[snip]

Jeff (Who's old enough to remember when he could actually fit his head under a car's
dash, see the back end of the ignition switch and it's wiring, and "hotwire it" in
less than a minute.)

I remember those days. Now, in my pickup truck, I can barely get
fingers thru the space allotted to program the alarm features :-(

Of course I can remember those days, *many* years ago, when I was
still flexible enough to lie upside down in a car seat and do
under-dash re-wiring ;-)

...Jim Thompson

 

[RP Henry]

Jeff (Who's old enough to remember when he could actually fit his head under a car's
dash, see the back end of the ignition switch and it's wiring, and "hotwire it" in
less than a minute.)

Used to be able to turn on the delivery truck assigned to my US Navy shop by
jamming a quarter into the wire bundle behind the back of the keyswitch. It
had a starter pushbutton.

 

[Jeff Wisnia]

Used to be able to turn on the delivery truck assigned to my US Navy shop by
jamming a quarter into the wire bundle behind the back of the keyswitch. It
had a starter pushbutton.

Ah yes, those were the days when you pulled the distributor rotor out and kept
it in your pocket until you were ready to start your Jeep.

Jeff

 

[Jim Thompson]

Ah yes, those were the days when you pulled the distributor rotor out and kept
it in your pocket until you were ready to start your Jeep.

Jeff

And keep your teenager home ;-)

...Jim Thompson

 

[The real Andy]

Used to be able to turn on the delivery truck assigned to my US Navy shop by
jamming a quarter into the wire bundle behind the back of the keyswitch. It
had a starter pushbutton.

I got pulled over by the police on time many years ago. They became
suspicious when the discovered that i had a screwdriver in the ignition slot
and that there was a heap of wires hanging down from under the ignition
switch. I used to lend the car to a lot of friends and couldn't find the key
that day. The screwdriver used to also work on the door.

The older fords used to come equiped with equipment to get into and start
your car. Snap the top of the antenna to open the door, open the hood and
snap of the dipstick to start the car.

 

[George R. Gonzalez]

The older fords used to come equiped with equipment to get into and start
your car. Snap the top of the antenna to open the door, open the hood and
snap of the dipstick to start the car.

On my 68 Mustang you'd open the hood, pull out the oil dipstick,
it was just the right size and stiffness to slip into the door seal so you
could pull up the
door-lock button. Saved me several times when I locked the keys in the car.

 

[Ralph Naylor]

Since my car was now totally insecure, I followed your advice - the rotor
went with me whenever I parked.

One of my roommates had a slightly newer Bug. It disappeared one night, and
was found a couple of days later parked in a street near the beach minus its
engine.

One of those sports that never made the Olympics ;-) A seasoned team of VW
engine thieves wouldn't have bothered to take the car, the preferred style
was to simply jack the car up, drop the engine and be off, maybe five
minutes start to finish.

 

[RP Henry]

On my 68 Mustang you'd open the hood, pull out the oil dipstick,
it was just the right size and stiffness to slip into the door seal so you
could pull up the
door-lock button. Saved me several times when I locked the keys in the

car.

I came out of the credit union one day and saw a lady trying to fish the
keys off her seat with the hook of a clothes hangar, reaching in through the
driver-side vent window. I offered to try, and after a few minutes I
thought it would be easier to try it from the passenger-side vent. When I
got to that side, I realized that the passenger window was all the way down,
so I just reached in and grabbed the keys.

 

[N. Thornton]

On my 68 Mustang you'd open the hood, pull out the oil dipstick,
it was just the right size and stiffness to slip into the door seal so you
could pull up the
door-lock button. Saved me several times when I locked the keys in the car.

Hi

I've had some where you didnt need even that. But with having more
modern vehicles now, one actually has to remember to never lose the
keys - most inconvenient.

Regards, NT