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Uncompressed Digital Video vs. Uncompressed Digital Audio

Discussion in 'Electronic Basics' started by Radium, Feb 12, 2007.

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  1. An excelent summary of the troll. :))
    I'm done.
     
  2. Jerry Avins

    Jerry Avins Guest

    Richard Crowley wrote:

    ...
    Does a troll's reason for posing a question really puzzle you?

    Jerry
     
  3. Of course, we have to wonder where "Radium" thinks he
    can get access to any "uncompressed video". I seriously
    doubt that he has ever seen it (or likely ever will in his
    lifetime.)

    Even if he had a means of recording "uncompresed video"
    what is he going to use as a source? And if he had a player,
    where does he think he can get any "uncompressed video"
    programming to play on it?
     
  4. Bob Myers

    Bob Myers Guest

    Yes, I did say that, and it still holds true. For instance,
    the video going over the common DVI digital interface is
    RGB in digital form. The "VGA" connector (HD15)
    carries RGB in analog form. There are other examples
    of each.

    But to the original question - PCM is far from the only
    common format for uncompressed digital audio. (For that
    matter, simply saying that a digital data stream is being
    transmitted in "PCM" form says nothing about whether
    the data in question is compressed or uncompressed.)

    Bob M.

    Bob M.
     
  5. Bob Myers

    Bob Myers Guest

    What do you think "format" means? What do you think
    "PCM" means? How will you recognize a correct answer
    when you don't even really understand the question?

    Bob M.
     
  6. Bob Myers

    Bob Myers Guest

    Yes, and all your base are belong to us....;-)

    Bob M.
     
  7. libsndfile ( http://www.mega-nerd.com/libsndfile/ ) supports
    uncompressed audio data stored as :

    - unsigned 8 bit ints
    - signed 8 bit ints
    - signed 16 bit ints
    - signed 24 bit ints
    - signed 32 bit ints
    - 32 bit floats
    - 64 bit floats

    Erik
    --
    +-----------------------------------------------------------+
    Erik de Castro Lopo
    +-----------------------------------------------------------+
    "Fundamentalists of all faiths are the fundamental evil of our time."
    -- Salman Rushdie
     
  8. Mr.T

    Mr.T Guest

    What problem? Consumers don't need uncompressed video distribution formats.
    Current hard disk sizes are adequate for those involved in the editing
    process.

    MrT.
     
  9. Frank

    Frank Guest

    Uncompressed Digital Video vs. Uncompressed Digital
    Audio>,
    I *strongly* disagree with the use of the past tense in relation to
    HDCAM SR.

    The HDCAM SR format (as well as plain old HDCAM) is quite alive and
    well.
    In the Sony world, recording is usually done to the SRW-1.

    Sony SRW-1 product information
    http://bssc.sel.sony.com/BroadcastandBusiness/DisplayModel?id=76234

    The SRW-1 can be attached directly to the recently-announced F23
    camera. No longer any need to drag the SRW-1 around behind the camera,
    attached via cable.

    Sony F23 press release
    http://news.sel.sony.com/en/press_r...uction/content_create_edit/release/26744.html
    As does HD-SDI (dual-link), but you know, some of us consider 4:2:2
    video over SDI, HD-SDI, and HDMI to be uncompressed as well, even
    though it's not 4:4:4.

    I hope that Radium is happy with his F23/SRW-1. If I were Bill Gates,
    I would buy an F23/SRW-1 for everyone who wanted one.
     
  10. Frank

    Frank Guest

    Uncompressed Digital Video vs. Uncompressed Digital
    Audio>,
    Sony PFD-23 Professional Disc
    http://b2b.sony.com/Solutions/subcategory/recordable-media/professional-media/professional-disc

    No, they don't. They're not able to sustain the required data rate.

    Any pro video dealer will be pleased to sell you some. Here's a B&H
    link.

    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=360348&is=REG

    Please note that the B&H Web page referenced above refers to it as a
    "hard disk recording medium" when in fact it's an optical medium using
    a blue-violet laser similar to, but not identical to, Sony's BD
    (Blu-ray Disc) media.
    Okay, but it's hardly uncompressed. XDCAM HD is yet another lossy
    compressed, long-GOP, interframe-encoded, temporally and spatially
    compressed MPEG-2 format.
    XDCAM HD is the poor person's HDCAM, but great for news organizations
    capable of adjusting to an IT-based workflow. And the discs ($29.95
    each at B&H) are cheap enough to store on a shelf for archival
    purposes if necessary.
     
  11. Ron N.

    Ron N. Guest

    I would go with D1 as a "video equivalent". At least at
    one time it was popular... on the 2 inches of PCB trace
    between the DTV/DVD decoder chip and the video DAC.

    As for storing uncompressed formats, didn't amateur radio
    types try storing monochrome (very) slow scan video on
    audio tape?
     
  12. Frank

    Frank Guest

    Uncompressed Digital Video vs. Uncompressed Digital
    Audio>,
    You're right. Sometimes I'm too subtle for _myself_. Didn't mean to
    offend you in any way.
    You've been away, so we'll pardon your misspelling, and at least you
    didn't use any apostrophes. :)
     
  13. Frank

    Frank Guest

    Uncompressed Digital Video vs. Uncompressed Digital
    Audio>,
    Not to start Yet Another Argument(tm), but DVCPRO50 is compressed
    3.3:1.
     
  14. Let me make matters a bit more confusing ;-)

    Uncompressed video does not come in AVI-kinds of formats.
    There is a current batch of professional camera's, which
    record to DPX or JPEG2000 image sequences.

    Have fun working that one out :)
    --
     
  15. "Frank" wrote ...
    I thought XDCAM discs met "Radium"s "CD-like" optical
    disc requirement and was sufficiently whizzy and out of
    reach to "Radium" that it would satisfy him. Since this is
    only a fantasy discussion anyway.

    I'd bet that "Radium" couldn't tell the difference between
    XDCAM and true raw uncompressed video. I still doubt
    that he has ever seen raw uncompressed video. There
    being no way of delivering it to consumers.

    I just got Sony's demo DVD on the XDCAM HD cameras and
    VCRs (are they still called "VCR" using an optical disc? :)
    The quality/price seemed pretty impressive to me.
    The footage from shooting the Iditarod was beautiful.
     
  16. Arny Krueger

    Arny Krueger Guest

    It's just a matter of who do you talk to - a practitioner, or a
    theoretician.

    If you walked into a room with a dozen A/V techs and said: "I have a RGB
    signal", they'll think you're talking about an analog signal. If you tell
    them "A DVI connector has Red, Green, and Blue signals in digital format",
    they'll nod their heads affirmatively because they know that, too. But RGB
    has meant analog signals for at least half a century.

    In most folks minds:

    RGB - analog, whether coax (BNC or RCA), DB9, or HD15.

    YUV - analog, coax (BNC or RCA)

    DVI - digital, purpose-developed connector

    HDMI - digital, purpose-developed connector
     
  17. Arny Krueger

    Arny Krueger Guest

    Whatever comes naturally. ;-)
    DVI's color encoding is via separate Red, Green, and Blue TMDS signals.
     
  18. Bob Myers

    Bob Myers Guest

    OK, I'm a practitioner. What answer do you think I should
    give?
    Of course they will - but that doesn't mean that there aren't other
    interfaces that carry video around in RGB form. What SHOULD
    I call the color encoding on DVI, if not "RGB"?

    Bob M.
     

  19. Not true! Radium gets perfect reception through his aluminum beanie
    cap. His favorite show is "TROLLS-R-US"


    --
    Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
    prove it.
    Member of DAV #85.

    Michael A. Terrell
    Central Florida
     
  20. Arny Krueger

    Arny Krueger Guest

    It's the old "do the math" game.

    30 images a second, with say 720x480 DVD video, 24 bit data words.

    345,600 pixels

    1,036,800 bytes

    31,104,000 bytes per second.

    This is a data rate that is almost thinkable for a single PC hard drive.

    30 images a second, with say 1920x1080 HD video, 24 bit data words.

    2,073,600 pixels

    6,220,800 bytes

    186,624,000 bytes per second.

    RAID array, for sure!

    Back in the real world, the most uncompressed video seen outside of a camera
    is usually more like M-JPEG w/o i-frames.
     
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