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UHF Inductor

M

Michael Drainer

Jan 1, 1970
0
I am building a RF Field Strength Meter and need to tune it to the UHF Band.
What size/kind of inductor and transistor should I use for this. All the
plans I have found are for the VHF band.

Thanks
 
R

Rob Judd

Jan 1, 1970
0
Michael said:
I am building a RF Field Strength Meter and need to tune it to the UHF Band.
What size/kind of inductor and transistor should I use for this. All the
plans I have found are for the VHF band.

1. A smaller one
2. A faster one

Rob
 
M

Michael Black

Jan 1, 1970
0
Rob said:
1. A smaller one
2. A faster one

Rob

Of course, the speed of the transistor depends on what it's being used
for. There have been plenty of transistorized signal strength meters
over the years where the transistor was merely a DC amplifier, coming
after the diode detector. In those cases, changing it will do nothing,
and there is no reason to change it.

If the transistor is ahead of the detector, ie an actual RF amplifier,
then it matters.

Michael
 
T

Tom Bruhns

Jan 1, 1970
0
Michael Drainer said:
I am building a RF Field Strength Meter and need to tune it to the UHF Band.
What size/kind of inductor and transistor should I use for this. All the
plans I have found are for the VHF band.

You can scale things if you make the inductance and its tuning
capacitance smaller by the ratio of the frequencies. In fact, if you
scale ALL dimensions of an inductor, you should end up with one that
behaves just the same at the scaled frequency. (Smaller coils work at
higher frequencies.) If the design's coil is tapped, you should be
able to keep the tap at the same number of turns on the new smaller
coil.

As others pointed out, if the transistor is just a DC amplifier, you
don't need to worry about it. The detector diode (assuming it uses a
diode detector!) likely will work OK, but if you try to go TOO high in
freq, you'll perhaps need a better detector diode. The
dimension-scaling thing works for parasitics too: there is always
extra capacitance and inductance in the wiring. So you'll want to
build things smaller and smaller as you go to higher and higher
frequencies. You eventually hit a practical limit where you will want
to change your whole way of thinking from lumped capacitors and
inductors and resistors to distributed things like cavities and
waveguides and resonators, but with modern components and low power,
you shouldn't hit such limits below a gigahertz, and people work
successfully well above that with lumped components (with care).

As an example, program "Coil" from Saratoga Software tells me that
five turns of 28AWG wire wound on a 4-40 (US thread) machine screw
(then remove the screw) will give you a 35nH coil with a
self-resonance around 2.6GHz and an unloaded Q of about 250 at 500MHz.
That should be useful to over 1GHz.

Cheers,
Tom
 
M

Michael Drainer

Jan 1, 1970
0
Tom you information has been extremly useful. Thank You.

The purpose if this device is to measure dBm at 663.25Mhz TV chanel 46. My
theory behind this circuit is to capture the UHF band then convert it to DC
and mix it with a fixed osocolator to create a resonating frequency for
which I can measure the voltage. I have just started and the first problem
is capturing the UHF band.

I would rather tune the circuit to look at just 663.25 - 669.25 (6 Mhz
bandwidth) convert the signal to DC and measure the voltage.

If you have any other thoughts please let me know.

Thanks

Michael Drainer
 
S

Siol

Jan 1, 1970
0
There is, at least I think a maxim chip, which does this. Its like a wideband detector.
I guess in your case you'd have to add a band pass at the input to remove
any other harmonic content.

I'll dig out more details, if you're interested.

SIol
 
M

Michael Drainer

Jan 1, 1970
0
Absolutly I'm interested...I would greatly appreciate the help.

Thanks
 
M

Michael Drainer

Jan 1, 1970
0
I think I found what your talking about.

Its the MAX4003 - 100MHz to 2.5GHz 45dB RF Detector.

Thanks
 
T

Tom Bruhns

Jan 1, 1970
0
Ah, well, I wonder how accurately you wish to measure the voltage.
Since it's a standard TV channel, why not use a television tuner to
convert it down to baseband where you could measure it with a scope or
similar? You might need some way to disable the AGC or control it,
and to calibrate the gain. Since it's a signal that occupies some
bandwidth, there are several different ways you could define the
voltage. Do you want the (video) carrier level? The total signal
power (as measured by an RMS voltage)? The peak voltage? Your
mention of dBm suggests you want the total power available in that
channel.

We build equipment that would make the job very easy, no matter which
sort of voltage you want to measure. Doing it yourself is usually not
so easy! How large a voltage do you think you have? If it's large
enough, you can measure it thermally or with a diode detector, and you
just have to be sure you're not measuring other signals too. If it's
microvolts, you'll probably want to convert it down to a lower
frequency and amplify it and feed it through an appropriate filter. A
simple diode detector could do the job if the signal is larger than
perhaps a millivolt RMS, and you use a sensitive voltmeter to measure
its output. You might be able to calibrate your detector with a
known-good signal generator with metered output. But do you have a
way to know you have good enough selectivity at the input so you're
not measuring adjacent channels?

Cheers,
Tom
 
T

Tom Bruhns

Jan 1, 1970
0
Michael Drainer said:
I think I found what your talking about.

Its the MAX4003 - 100MHz to 2.5GHz 45dB RF Detector.
Thanks to you and SIol for the reminder about Maxim and Analog Devices
RF detectors. Linear Technology also make them. If power in the
channel (RMS voltage) is what you want, and the level is high enough,
that should do fine for you. You could put an MMIC amplifier in front
of it if you needed just a bit lower input power range.

You'll probably want a pretty good bandpass filter, though, unless you
can guarantee that there aren't many interferring signals strong
enough to worry about and close enough in frequency. Designing,
constructing and testing such a narrow-band filter isn't trivial, and
that's why your idea of converting down to a lower (IF) frequency is
basically sound. Practically all general-purpose spectrum analyzers
do just that. Again, a TV tuner might be the way to do that easily,
especially if you can fix the AGC voltage so the gain stays constant,
and you have a way to calibrate the gain.

Cheers,
Tom
 
W

Watson A.Name - 'Watt Sun'

Jan 1, 1970
0
I am building a RF Field Strength Meter and need to tune it to the UHF Band.
What size/kind of inductor and transistor should I use for this. All the
plans I have found are for the VHF band.

Thanks

UHF is a large spread of freqs, 300 MHz to 3 GHz. At these freqs,
lumped constant components get to be very problematic, they are low
values and their tolerances can't be easily controlled. The inductors
are often made from PC board traces and a simple U or hairpin of wire
between two pads has more than enough inductance to resonate at UHFs.
Also it was common to silver plate the wire and conductors to get
higher Q.

The inductance of resistor leads can be sufficient to give a resonance
to the circuit. It just depends on the freqs you have in mind. Get
one of the ham manuals on this, to see examples of some homebrew
equipment. Rec.radio.amateur.homebrew is another source of info.


--
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W

Watson A.Name - 'Watt Sun'

Jan 1, 1970
0
Tom you information has been extremly useful. Thank You.

The purpose if this device is to measure dBm at 663.25Mhz TV chanel 46. My
theory behind this circuit is to capture the UHF band then convert it to DC
and mix it with a fixed osocolator to create a resonating frequency for
which I can measure the voltage. I have just started and the first problem
is capturing the UHF band.

I would rather tune the circuit to look at just 663.25 - 669.25 (6 Mhz
bandwidth) convert the signal to DC and measure the voltage.

If you have any other thoughts please let me know.

Thanks

Michael Drainer

I just plugged some values into my calculator and came up with 5 pF
and 11 nanohenrys, both of which are really quite small values.
The impedance is about 48 ohms.

[snip]
--
@@F@r@o@m@@O@r@a@n@g@e@@C@o@u@n@t@y@,@@C@a@l@,@@w@h@e@r@e@@
###Got a Question about ELECTRONICS? Check HERE First:###
http://users.pandora.be/educypedia/electronics/databank.htm
My email address is whitelisted. *All* email sent to it
goes directly to the trash unless you add NOSPAM in the
Subject: line with other stuff. alondra101 <at> hotmail.com
Don't be ripped off by the big book dealers. Go to the URL
that will give you a choice and save you money(up to half).
http://www.everybookstore.com You'll be glad you did!
Just when you thought you had all this figured out, the gov't
changed it: http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html
@@t@h@e@@a@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@m@e@e@t@@t@h@e@@E@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@
 
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