turbines - 12v versus 24v

[no spam]

I don't think anyone's going to be coming to you for advice after

the advice I give is based on what I see and what I do, what works for
me and what doesn't. It's based on things I've actually done and
tried. You goddam fucking armchair theorists are all the same and
you're ten a penny all over the newsgroups, having read a few articles
you think you know it all, stupid ****.. I bet you've never picked up
a screwdriver in your life. You try to give me advice on wind turbines
and you've never installed and run your own turbine. I have. I've run
my own turbine for a year, watching the behaviour of the meter needles
when the wind is blowing, learning what I could hands on. And what I
learnt surprised me, even after years of experience repairing
electrical items for a living.
You're a disgrace. **** off.

All of one long year and you know it all. In another year you'll be in line
for that Nobel prize. Come back in a year and tell us how many batteries
you have that will still take and hold a full charge.

 

[[email protected]]

why?

For starters, a 24V-only turbine is likely to have a matching
rectifier-dump load-regulator that can't be set below about 24V. Which
means that if you connect it to a 12V battery, the turbine will
(inefficiently) keep right on charging until the batteries reach 24V
or expire. You could add a 12V regulator and dump load in series but
why bother? Check the power curves - there's isn't enough energy in
the below-cut-in speed range worth harvesting with a bodge. If you
have any info that says different then please post it. And before you
repeat that claim that those trying to help you don't have any
experience, check here http://www.leboise.com/Wind.html,
http://www.green-trust.org/blogarchive/2006_10_01_archive.html,
http://www.citlink.net/~wmbjk/12wind pics thumbnails.htm.

Wayne

 

[[email protected]]

Yo Steve.... lets say I have a 12V battery bank (two T105s), and some
PV panels and a MPPT controller, AND a wind turbine & controller. Lets
say the sun comes up before the wind starts. MPPT controller is
putting out 13.8V. Everybody is happy. Then the wind picks up. Wind
controller thinks... 'hey... battery has 13.8 volts... I better hump
out 14.4V to charge that booger', which confuses the computer in the
MPPT controller and it drops out and everybody is confused. So how do
I use a generator, a wind turbine and PV panels to keep my battery
bank charged? Have some sort of master controller that connects them
one at a time? Bummer if you have sun and wind at the same time. Need
3 big diodes? 3 big .1 ohm resistors?

Outback says their standard MX60 can be used with some specific
turbines, and they've talked about making a dedicated turbine version.
Either way, solar and wind input couldn't be combined, and even
separate controllers can conflict. I get around that problem by
setting the turbine controller voltage a little higher than the MX60
PV controller. It's an imperfect solution though. The turbine
controller is single-stage, so when the batteries are full and the
wind is still blowing, battery voltage is higher than I'd like.

Wayne

 

[tg]

All of one long year and you know it all.

no, but I certainly know more than someone who's never owned and run
their own turbine - namely you.

 

[tg]

For starters, a 24V-only turbine is likely to have a matching
rectifier-dump load-regulator that can't be set below about 24V.
Which
means that if you connect it to a 12V battery, the turbine will
(inefficiently) keep right on charging until the batteries reach 24V
or expire. You could add a 12V regulator and dump load in series but
why bother? Check the power curves - there's isn't enough energy in
the below-cut-in speed range worth harvesting with a bodge. If you
have any info that says different then please post it. And before
you
repeat that claim that those trying to help you don't have any
experience, check here http://www.leboise.com/Wind.html,
http://www.green-trust.org/blogarchive/2006_10_01_archive.html,
http://www.citlink.net/~wmbjk/12wind pics thumbnails.htm.

Wayne

I do use a 12v regulator now. It's there to safeguard the batteries
being charged and yes it does dump power to a big resistor when the
batteries are full. In using a 12v turbine though I've discovered that
there's actually nothing '12 volt' about it. This is where the
armchair theorist always fall flat on their face. Anyone who thinks a
12v turbine puts out 12v when it's spinning doesn't know what they're
talking about. If I disconnect my turbine and test the voltage while
it's spinning fast I get a reading of up to 70 volts DC. This 12v
malarky is just pie in the sky, I've seen it with my own eyes. If I
connect my turbine to a really flat 12v battery the turbine voltage
will only rise to the 'actual' voltage of the battery and during the
charge process it won't go any higher.With my current 12v turbine
there is a hell of a lot of wasted blade spinning, with no charging
until reaches quite a fast speed. Thus a turbine that reaches the
battery voltage sooner (eg a 24v) should be more efficient. I suppose
I'll just have to try and report back, maybe educate the poor saddos
around here that have never been near a wind turbine ha ha.
btw wayne, what kind of turbine are you using?

 

[tg]

Several brands of decaf coffee taste just like the real thing. Gee
whiz.

I haven't got a fucking clue what your talking about.

 

[[email protected]]

I do use a 12v regulator now. It's there to safeguard the batteries
being charged and yes it does dump power to a big resistor when the
batteries are full. In using a 12v turbine though I've discovered that
there's actually nothing '12 volt' about it. This is where the
armchair theorist always fall flat on their face. Anyone who thinks a
12v turbine puts out 12v when it's spinning doesn't know what they're
talking about. If I disconnect my turbine and test the voltage while
it's spinning fast I get a reading of up to 70 volts DC.

Steve and DJ and I all understand that, but it doesn't help your case
in the slightest.

This 12v
malarky is just pie in the sky, I've seen it with my own eyes. If I
connect my turbine to a really flat 12v battery the turbine voltage
will only rise to the 'actual' voltage of the battery and during the
charge process it won't go any higher.With my current 12v turbine
there is a hell of a lot of wasted blade spinning, with no charging
until reaches quite a fast speed. Thus a turbine that reaches the
battery voltage sooner (eg a 24v) should be more efficient.
No.

I suppose
I'll just have to try and report back, maybe educate the poor saddos
around here that have never been near a wind turbine ha ha.
btw wayne, what kind of turbine are you using?

I'm done wasting time with you. Come back when you're ready to listen.

Wayne

 

[Steve Cothran]

You're a disgrace. **** off.

Several brands of decaf coffee taste just like the real thing. Gee
whiz.

 

[Eeyore]

If I disconnect my turbine and test the voltage while
it's spinning fast I get a reading of up to 70 volts DC.

Meaningless without knowing the source impedance.

You're the classic example of 'a little knowledge is a dangerous thing'.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

So, dude, name names. What turbine? Point in fact, very few 12, 24, or
48v turbines put out DC voltage at all. Most put out "three phase wild
AC" which is rectified to DC at the battery charge controller.

Yup, just like a car alternator.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

the advice I give is based on what I see and what I do, what works for
me and what doesn't. It's based on things I've actually done and
tried.

Discharge a lead-acid battery regularly to 7V and it won't last very long.

Fact.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

I bet you've never picked up a screwdriver in your life.

Well you'd certainly be wrong about that !

You try to give me advice on wind turbines
and you've never installed and run your own turbine. I have. I've run
my own turbine for a year, watching the behaviour of the meter needles
when the wind is blowing, learning what I could hands on. And what I
learnt surprised me, even after years of experience repairing
electrical items for a living.
You're a disgrace.

You're one od those idiots who thinks that the science doesn't matter and it's
trumped by 'garden shed thinking'. That's far more disgraceful than anything I
know. Ignorance will get you nowhere ( except some very prematurely dead
batteries).

**** off.

Nice way to respond to ppl who are trying to teach you something.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

no, but I certainly know more than someone who's never owned and run
their own turbine - namely you.

You know 3/10 ths of NOTHING.

Graham

 

[tg]

I'm done wasting time with you. Come back when you're ready to
listen.

and there we have it, another armchair theorist who's never been near
a wind turbine.

 

[Eeyore]

and there we have it, another armchair theorist who's never been near
a wind turbine.

Believe it or not, you don't need to have used one to understand how they work.

They're just electrical generators like any other type.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

you're one of those idiots who's read a couple of paragraphs on a web
page and thinks he knows it all

No.

In fact I've probably spent more time researching 'alternative energy' in quite
some depth than you ever have.

You seem to be proud of your ignorance of the underlying science. Let's see how
proud you are when your expensive deep-cycle batteries give up the ghost because
you mis-treated them.

Electrical engineers have understood how lead acid batteries work for over a
century yet you seem to think YOU know better !

You're a classic example of the danger of 'dumbing down' in education.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

I'm dissapointed with the Aero4gen, there's a lot of wasted blade spinning
with no output to
the batteries.

Probably, given your comments here, because you haven't a damn clue how to use
it properly.

LMAO @ 'blade spinning'. You'r so clueless it's almost untrue.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

oh my that's rich, coming from a guy who's never been near a turbine.

A wind turbine is simply a wind-driven machine that generates electricity. It's
fundamentally no different from any other similar machine whatever the power
source is.

There's no *MAGIC* about it because the power comes from the wind. It obeys the
same electrical laws and equations as any other piece of electrical machinery.

Your idea that *YOU KNOW BETTER* because you have one is based on nothing of
substance. It's just a boring old generator/alternator. There's nothing special
about it at all. In fact you could learn a lot from studying automotive
electrical circuits. They share a lot in common.


Graham

 

[[email protected]]

So speaketh the backyard mechanic. Ever heard the phrase, 'jack of all
trades, but master of none'?

These guys have him beat on both theory and practice.

http://www.zen40166.zen.co.uk/image005.jpg
http://www.zen40166.zen.co.uk/image006.jpg
http://www.zen40166.zen.co.uk/image007.jpg

At least they're not camera shy.

Wayne

 

[tg]

A wind turbine is simply a wind-driven machine that generates
electricity. It's
fundamentally no different from any other similar machine whatever
the power
source is.

oh yes of course it is. You've read it in books so it must be true.
The fact that you have zero hands-on experience in these matters
doesn't mean a thing. You've read the books and looked at the
pictures, therefore you're an expert.
Have you ever personally studied the behaviour of a turbine in the
wind? No
Have you spent even one minute monitoring a turbine's output with
electrical equipment? No
Have you taken a turbine apart, serviced it, reassembled it,
re-installed it? No
Have you personally wired in a turbine? No
Have you spent time comparing wind speed to cut in speed to battery
voltage and battery capacity? No
Have you ever learnt a single thing about turbines as a result of the
errors you made with them? No
I've done all of the above, and you've done jack shit, that's what it
comes down to.