Maker Pro
Maker Pro

Trying to wrap my head around it

J

JoeRaisin

Jan 1, 1970
0
Had a service call that has me scratching my head.

Monday the customer kept getting calls from the monitoring center saying
they were getting a fire trouble on zone 5.

Panel is a Safewatch 3000. Zone 5 is an entry/exit point programmed
correctly. There are no fire devices on the system and no unused zones
are programmed as fire though they are programmed and resistored out at
the panel.

The customer is using phone service through their cable company and
their data guy was on site during the time they were getting these calls.

I had heard some time ago about ADT monitoring centers seeing telco line
faults as a fire trouble (why, I don't know) so that could explain the
fire trouble, but they insist it was coming in on zone 5.

The zone 5 part is what bothers me. I don't like not understanding
something. If it was a one time signal I could let it go as a an
electron forgetting to turn left at Albuquerque - but it happened
several times throughout the day (my guess would be every time the data
guy fucked with the cable/phone equipment).

I checked the program and ran the system through its paces and
everything is (and 'was' as far as I could tell) programmed and
functioning correctly, btw.
 
J

Jim Rojas

Jan 1, 1970
0
JoeRaisin said:
Had a service call that has me scratching my head.

Monday the customer kept getting calls from the monitoring center saying
they were getting a fire trouble on zone 5.

Panel is a Safewatch 3000. Zone 5 is an entry/exit point programmed
correctly. There are no fire devices on the system and no unused zones
are programmed as fire though they are programmed and resistored out at
the panel.

The customer is using phone service through their cable company and
their data guy was on site during the time they were getting these calls.

I had heard some time ago about ADT monitoring centers seeing telco line
faults as a fire trouble (why, I don't know) so that could explain the
fire trouble, but they insist it was coming in on zone 5.

The zone 5 part is what bothers me. I don't like not understanding
something. If it was a one time signal I could let it go as a an
electron forgetting to turn left at Albuquerque - but it happened
several times throughout the day (my guess would be every time the data
guy fucked with the cable/phone equipment).

I checked the program and ran the system through its paces and
everything is (and 'was' as far as I could tell) programmed and
functioning correctly, btw.

ADT has their own variation of CID codes in these panels. It sounds like
a bug.

Jim Rojas
Technical Manuals Online!
http://www.tech-man.com
8002 Cornwall Lane
Tampa, FL 33615-4604
813-884-6335
813-440-6653 Fax
AOL: rojas813
MSN: [email protected]
Yahoo: jimrojas
ICQ: 20116219
GoogleTalk: [email protected]
 
G

G. Morgan

Jan 1, 1970
0
JoeRaisin said:
I had heard some time ago about ADT monitoring centers seeing telco line
faults as a fire trouble (why, I don't know) so that could explain the
fire trouble, but they insist it was coming in on zone 5.


LMAO... Enjoy, dealing with ADT's CS. I refuse to.
 
G

G. Morgan

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jim said:
ADT has their own variation of CID codes in these panels. It sounds like
a bug.

And who are they to redefine CID for proprietary panels? What a joke.
 
B

Bill

Jan 1, 1970
0
JoeRaisin said:
Had a service call that has me scratching my head.

Monday the customer kept getting calls from the monitoring center
saying they were getting a fire trouble on zone 5.

Panel is a Safewatch 3000. Zone 5 is an entry/exit point programmed
correctly. There are no fire devices on the system and no unused
zones are programmed as fire though they are programmed and
resistored out at the panel.

The customer is using phone service through their cable company and
their data guy was on site during the time they were getting these
calls.

I had heard some time ago about ADT monitoring centers seeing telco
line faults as a fire trouble (why, I don't know) so that could
explain the fire trouble, but they insist it was coming in on zone
5.

The zone 5 part is what bothers me. I don't like not understanding
something. If it was a one time signal I could let it go as a an
electron forgetting to turn left at Albuquerque - but it happened
several times throughout the day (my guess would be every time the
data guy fucked with the cable/phone equipment).

I checked the program and ran the system through its paces and
everything is (and 'was' as far as I could tell) programmed and
functioning correctly, btw.

Can you change the account number on that system, then see if the
trouble occurs with the new account number? (Same system...)

Other than that, sometimes circuit boards have poor solder
connections. Vibrations nearby might make the circuit board vibrate
and then do something. But that would not make sense in the case?
 
J

JoeRaisin

Jan 1, 1970
0
LMAO... Enjoy, dealing with ADT's CS. I refuse to.

The people I talk to are generally very nice, and in most cases, helpful.

It's the hold times that are the major PITA.
 
G

G. Morgan

Jan 1, 1970
0
JoeRaisin said:
The people I talk to are generally very nice, and in most cases, helpful.

It's the hold times that are the major PITA.

That, and you're lucky to get one who understands what you are asking
for.

--

"I don't like to discriminate against terrorists based on nationality.
If you declare war on the United States and you want to kill us,
We're going to kill you first, period."

October 19, 2011 - Ali Soufan (Colbert Report)
 
G

G. Morgan

Jan 1, 1970
0
Bill said:
Other than that, sometimes circuit boards have poor solder
connections. Vibrations nearby might make the circuit board vibrate
and then do something.

Huh? Like change the protocol sent by the onboard computer? I don't
think so, Tim.
But that would not make sense in the case?

No, it makes no sense. I have panels out there that vibrate (slightly)
because there was no where else to mount them.
--

"I don't like to discriminate against terrorists based on nationality.
If you declare war on the United States and you want to kill us,
We're going to kill you first, period."

October 19, 2011 - Ali Soufan (Colbert Report)
 
G

G. Morgan

Jan 1, 1970
0
mleuck said:
It would be a joke if they did it which they don't

Not the last time I looked. I know they have "extended" codes for
proprietary use on new-gen panels, but not on a SW/3000 over a dozen
years old.







--

"I don't like to discriminate against terrorists based on nationality.
If you declare war on the United States and you want to kill us,
We're going to kill you first, period."

October 19, 2011 - Ali Soufan (Colbert Report)
 
J

JoeRaisin

Jan 1, 1970
0
That, and you're lucky to get one who understands what you are asking
for.

Once in a while I'll get someone who doesn't know what they are doing,
but for the most part they seem to know what they are doing. The folks
at programming even seem to have a bit of field experience.

Special projects is the real crap-shoot. I have had to interact with
them many, many times and it seems like they either really know they are
doing, or they totally fubar the program.

Supplies are the real bitch. We are constantly trying to get the parts
we need. We get OH dr contacts with no magnets, one job had us
installing 11 pull stations on a focus pnl with no sims and door
contacts are always all of one type or another like no one ever even
laid eyes on the place to know that recessed contacts are not going to
work on half the doors. Don't even get me started on them shorting the
wire estimates...
 
G

G. Morgan

Jan 1, 1970
0
JoeRaisin said:
Supplies are the real bitch. We are constantly trying to get the parts
we need. We get OH dr contacts with no magnets, one job had us
installing 11 pull stations on a focus pnl with no sims and door
contacts are always all of one type or another like no one ever even
laid eyes on the place to know that recessed contacts are not going to
work on half the doors. Don't even get me started on them shorting the
wire estimates...

Just finished a job for ADT, that was subbed, then re-subbed finally to
us. Those idiots had already mounted 4 Spectra-domes (conduit and all
on break-away towers) but didn't put the mini-fiber x-miter inside the
domes. I looked in the NEMA box and they had seperate *receivers* in
there? WTF? I was missing receivers.

I finally get the worthless PM from ADT out there (they had this job for
10 mos.) Bidded it site-unseen.

I asked how the hell I was supposed to get a fiber up the cam now,
"can't you just take it apart and fish one?" Lol... I said "sure", if
you want to pay me and do a change-order to take this whole thing apart
and re-do it. I got my rack-mount receivers 5 days later. and he took
a case of mini-transmitters back to ADT's warehouse, I wonder how he
explained that?! lol...



--

"I don't like to discriminate against terrorists based on nationality.
If you declare war on the United States and you want to kill us,
We're going to kill you first, period."

October 19, 2011 - Ali Soufan (Colbert Report)
 
J

JoeRaisin

Jan 1, 1970
0
Just finished a job for ADT, that was subbed, then re-subbed finally to
us. Those idiots had already mounted 4 Spectra-domes (conduit and all
on break-away towers) but didn't put the mini-fiber x-miter inside the
domes. I looked in the NEMA box and they had seperate *receivers* in
there? WTF? I was missing receivers.

I finally get the worthless PM from ADT out there (they had this job for
10 mos.) Bidded it site-unseen.

I asked how the hell I was supposed to get a fiber up the cam now,
"can't you just take it apart and fish one?" Lol... I said "sure", if
you want to pay me and do a change-order to take this whole thing apart
and re-do it. I got my rack-mount receivers 5 days later. and he took
a case of mini-transmitters back to ADT's warehouse, I wonder how he
explained that?! lol...

Having dealt with ADT as a sub for a year now I have determined it isn't
worth getting real worked up over it. When my concerns about parts is
ignored early on all I have to do is wait until the deadline is coming
up and I get called from some muckity muck who is in charge of all mom
and pop stores that begin with the letters 'D' or "W" east of the
Mississippi river asking if I am going to be done on time.

The only time they listen is when I say, "No." When they ask why, I
tell them about the parts needed and reference the email I sent out two
months ago. Next thing I know the parts have been special ordered and
are being shipped overnight.

It only strays from the realm of "frustrating but amusing" when the
missing parts include a shortage of wire. Then it is always a bit of a
scramble calling around to the other guys to find out who has a roll of
16/19 red trunk line (which is another joke) on their truck.

Many of the jobs we get from them are last minute - seems like they
finally figure out they don't have enough organic techs (because they
have trimmed their tech staff way too much) to get it done and approach
Dick with an "emergency install" that they have known about for months
but we now have two weeks - while all our techs are busy on the current
crop of "emergency installs." LOL

I keep thinking my boss should add a picture to his email sig. The one
that has all the guys rolling on the floor laughing with the caption,
"You want it when?"



Here's another interesting tidbit. I was talking to a salesman from
another company who was absolutely convinced that everything dealing
with a focus panel was proprietary *including the wire.* He was
lamenting the fact that if her were to sell a takeover of a focus system
they would have to replace all the wire...
 
G

G. Morgan

Jan 1, 1970
0
JoeRaisin said:
Here's another interesting tidbit. I was talking to a salesman from
another company who was absolutely convinced that everything dealing
with a focus panel was proprietary *including the wire.* He was
lamenting the fact that if her were to sell a takeover of a focus system
they would have to replace all the wire...

If the idiot tech was 'trained' by ADT, S.O.P. is to use that white
(18/2 x 22/4) cable and cut it in mid-span to solder on a jumper to the
device below. They also like to hide the V-plex/poppits/whatever they
call the modules now in walls and above air ducts, why?

--

"I don't like to discriminate against terrorists based on nationality.
If you declare war on the United States and you want to kill us,
We're going to kill you first, period."

October 19, 2011 - Ali Soufan (Colbert Report)
 
J

JoeRaisin

Jan 1, 1970
0
Extended codes yes but redefining old codes no, besides the 3000 is a
Vista-20P and one can go into the configurable zone section and
reprogram zones to send anything

This one wasn't programmed as a configurable zone - simple entry/exit.

Mark, been meaning to ask you something but I'm not sure if I remember
something right. I think I have seen posts in the past indicating you
may have some knowledge of ADT systems.

I can't figure out what point type a motion detector should be on a
Focus panel. There is no "interior follower" or anything that seems
like one. The ADT techs I have asked say they just make them either
delayed or instant perimeter types based on where they are.

Why do they have to rename stuff?
 
J

JoeRaisin

Jan 1, 1970
0
If the idiot tech was 'trained' by ADT, S.O.P. is to use that white
(18/2 x 22/4) cable and cut it in mid-span to solder on a jumper to the
device below. They also like to hide the V-plex/poppits/whatever they
call the modules now in walls and above air ducts, why?

This was an idiot salesman.

For the focus panel they call 'em sims.

We're seeing a lot of v-128 panels lately. Since the focus doesn't have
an isolator mod they're using the 128 on all hybrid installs.

Personally I prefer to see the burg and fire on separate panels - I done
a few places where I put in both a burg panel and a fire panel. But
that's probably 'cause I prefer fire to burg and can work the fire while
supervising the burg part.
 
R

Robosama

Jan 1, 1970
0
Like a W3-ADT smoke is really a 5808 rf smoke...dunno why they think we are
incapable of figuring out this stuff.

Still wish I had the ADT personality files for Compass though.

:)
 
J

JoeRaisin

Jan 1, 1970
0
Like a W3-ADT smoke is really a 5808 rf smoke...dunno why they think we
are incapable of figuring out this stuff.

Still wish I had the ADT personality files for Compass though.

:)

Just installed a focus panel with a new zone added - "Movable Instant
PIR". Unless of course the motion covers an entry path, then you have
to make it "Movable Delay".

What was wrong with the good old, "Interior Follower"?
 
Top