Maker Pro
Maker Pro

Trojan T105 batteries charging

  • Thread starter RamRod Sword of Baal
  • Start date
R

RamRod Sword of Baal

Jan 1, 1970
0
I have 4 x T105 trojan batteries in series giving me a 24 volt system

They are currently just sitting there in case of a power failure and then
the will generate 240 volts AC via my inverter.

I feed them from a 40 amp basic battery charger, you know just a transformer
and a rectifier.

I put them on charge once a week or so and charge them at around 29.5 volts
and once then have been on for say 12 hours the current drops down to under
one amp, at the moment .7 of an amp, leave them on longer and the current
drops futher. BTW outside temperature now (Night time here 5 AM) is 24 c or
75 f. In the day it will be around 30 c or 86 f.

I usually leave them on charge for about 24 hours at a time.

Now as I want the batteries to have the longest life possible, is there any
out there who have experienced keeping these batteries alive for a long
period, and do they have any advice.

No, I do not wish to spend a lot of money on an automatic charger. A 40 amp
automatic charger cost over $AUS 1500.00

So any advise on keeping these batteries healthy for a long time? They are
curently about a year old and never been cycled, as I do have other power
back up system.

Before charging they usually are around 25.2 volts, and they never go below
that as that is when I put them on charge.
 
V

Vaughn Simon

Jan 1, 1970
0
RamRod Sword of Baal said:
So any advise on keeping these batteries healthy for a long time? They are
curently about a year old and never been cycled, as I do have other power back
up system.

Since the batteries are apparently connected to nothing, I see no reason to
charge them more often than monthly. With a little monitoring, you may even be
able to get by with quarterly. I don't think it is a good idea to leave them on
that dumb charger for a full 24 hours. That would be like giving them an
equalizer charge monthly. You need to leave them on until they reach whatever
voltage the manufacturer recommends, and no longer. Constant overcharging will
reduce their lifetime.

If you value your batteries, I highly recommend an automatic float charger.
You could still use your present charger for bulk charging.


--
Vaughn

.........................................................
Nothing personal, but if you are posting through Google Groups I may not receive
your message. Google refuses to control the flood of spam messages originating
in their system, so on any given day I may or may not have Google blocked. Try
a real NNTP server & news reader program and you will never go back. All you
need is access to an NNTP server (AKA "news server") and a news reader program.
You probably already have a news reader program in your computer (Hint: Outlook
Express). Assuming that your Usenet needs are modest, use
http://news.aioe.org/ for free and/or http://www.teranews.com/ for a one-time
$3.95 setup fee.
..........................................................

Will poofread for food.




Vaughn
 
Y

You

Jan 1, 1970
0
RamRod Sword of Baal said:
I have 4 x T105 trojan batteries in series giving me a 24 volt system

They are currently just sitting there in case of a power failure and then
the will generate 240 volts AC via my inverter.

I feed them from a 40 amp basic battery charger, you know just a transformer
and a rectifier.

I put them on charge once a week or so and charge them at around 29.5 volts
and once then have been on for say 12 hours the current drops down to under
one amp, at the moment .7 of an amp, leave them on longer and the current
drops futher. BTW outside temperature now (Night time here 5 AM) is 24 c or
75 f. In the day it will be around 30 c or 86 f.

I usually leave them on charge for about 24 hours at a time.

Now as I want the batteries to have the longest life possible, is there any
out there who have experienced keeping these batteries alive for a long
period, and do they have any advice.

No, I do not wish to spend a lot of money on an automatic charger. A 40 amp
automatic charger cost over $AUS 1500.00

So any advise on keeping these batteries healthy for a long time? They are
curently about a year old and never been cycled, as I do have other power
back up system.

Before charging they usually are around 25.2 volts, and they never go below
that as that is when I put them on charge.

Your Killing your batteries when charging them to 29.5 Vdc on a weekly
basis. Once you get up to 28.8 Vdc your just boiling off H2. How often
are you adding water, to your cells?
 
M

m II

Jan 1, 1970
0
You said:
Your Killing your batteries when charging them to 29.5 Vdc on a weekly
basis. Once you get up to 28.8 Vdc your just boiling off H2. How often
are you adding water, to your cells?


It's the current that makes batteries bubble. At that voltage, he is
putting in under one amp. It's nothing to worry about.

I have a small solar setup that keeps my batteries charged. With no load
on them for a couple of days, I see 15.1 volts quite regularly on the 12
volt battery bank. I fill up the electrolyte once every three of four
months. When I need power, I get a lot of work out of them before I see
a drop to 12.4 volts. I use the stereo, grinder, lights, drill and small
welder (60-70 amps output).

That high voltage is like a surface charge. If I turn on a small light
for a few minutes, the voltage will drop to the normal 13+ range. In
fact I HAVE to turn on a small light first, as the inverter won't work
at any voltage above roughly 14.9

Some people get a small 15 watt panel just to put and maintain that
levelling charge on the batteries. It saves the charger being used for
something that takes a long time.



mike


--
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __
/ /\ / /\ / /\ / /\ / /\ / /\ / /\ / /
/ /\ \ /'Think Tanks Cleaned Cheap'/ /\ \/ /
/_/ \/_/ \/_/ \/_/ \/_/ \/_/ \/_/ \/_/

Densa International©
For the OTHER two percent.



Due to the insane amount of spam and garbage,
I block all postings with a Gmail, Google Mail,
Google Groups or HOTMAIL address.
I also filter everything from a .cn server.


For solutions which may work for you, please check:
http://improve-usenet.org/
 
V

Vaughn Simon

Jan 1, 1970
0
It's the current that makes batteries bubble. At that voltage, he is
putting in under one amp. It's nothing to worry about.

The above is terrible advice that you might once have heard from me, because
I once strongly held that theory. On my job, I ruined several sets of batteries
with cheap 1-amp trickle chargers before I learned better. Listen to the
recomendations of the folks who made your battery, and consistantly do what they
say. Overcharging lead acid batteries is rarely a good idea.

Float chargers are a wonderful invention that give you a "set and forget"
option.


--
Vaughn

.........................................................
Nothing personal, but if you are posting through Google Groups I may not receive
your message. Google refuses to control the flood of spam messages originating
in their system, so on any given day I may or may not have Google blocked. Try
a real NNTP server & news reader program and you will never go back. All you
need is access to an NNTP server (AKA "news server") and a news reader program.
You probably already have a news reader program in your computer (Hint: Outlook
Express). Assuming that your Usenet needs are modest, use
http://news.aioe.org/ for free and/or http://www.teranews.com/ for a one-time
$3.95 setup fee.
..........................................................

Will poofread for food.
 
M

m II

Jan 1, 1970
0
Vaughn said:
The above is terrible advice that you might once have heard from me,because
I once strongly held that theory. On my job, I ruined several sets of batteries
with cheap 1-amp trickle chargers before I learned better. Listen to the
recomendations of the folks who made your battery, and consistantly do what they
say. Overcharging lead acid batteries is rarely a good idea.

Float chargers are a wonderful invention that give you a "set and forget"
option.


At under one ampere charging current, I can't see the problem.
Even when my batteries are approaching 15 volts, I can't see any
bubbles. My charger limits the current.
I've had these batteries for about three years now and they all still
meet specifications. I hope to get another five or more years out of
them. In my case, the depth of discharge is the only concern.


I see a lot of these statements out there and a small solar cell meets
the 'maintenance' requirements nicely.

=================================
Next comes the Float Step. This is a regulated voltage of not more than
13.4 volts and usually less than 1 amp of current. This in time will
bring the battery to 100% charged or close to it. The float charge will
not boil or heat batteries but will maintain the batteries at 100%
readiness and prevent cycling during long term inactivity.

http://www.batterystuff.com/tutorial_battery.html
=================================


mike

--
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __
/ /\ / /\ / /\ / /\ / /\ / /\ / /\ / /
/ /\ \ /'Think Tanks Cleaned Cheap'/ /\ \/ /
/_/ \/_/ \/_/ \/_/ \/_/ \/_/ \/_/ \/_/

Densa International©
For the OTHER two percent.



Due to the insane amount of spam and garbage,
I block all postings with a Gmail, Google Mail,
Google Groups or HOTMAIL address.
I also filter everything from a .cn server.


For solutions which may work for you, please check:
http://improve-usenet.org/
 
U

Ulysses

Jan 1, 1970
0
Vaughn Simon said:
The above is terrible advice that you might once have heard from me, because
I once strongly held that theory. On my job, I ruined several sets of batteries
with cheap 1-amp trickle chargers before I learned better. Listen to the
recomendations of the folks who made your battery, and consistantly do what they
say. Overcharging lead acid batteries is rarely a good idea.

I would have to call "equalizing" overcharging so I don't think that's quite
what you meant.

My view on battery charging is this: The batteries should be charged up to
whatever voltage the manufacturer recommends for ABSORB charging. This
voltage should be held until the batteries are fully charged according to a
hydrometer (wet cells). This time will vary according to the charge rate in
amps. Once this is accomplished the batteries can be kept on FLOAT
according to the manufacturers reccomendations. Equalizing should be done
periodically. If they are used daily then about every four to six weeks is
a common practice. If they are not being used every six months might be
enough. The only way I know how to tell if they need to be equalized is by
seeing if the cells are equal (or pretty close). This part may take some
experience with the particular battery bank.

The main problem I see with just using a transformer and rectifier is that
you cannot control the ABSORB, EQUALIZE, and FLOAT voltages. I have a
"Smart" charger that cost $90 at Wamart but it's 12 volt. It did, however,
do a good job of keeping my batteries in good condition for about four
years. Another inexpensive option might be a small engine and
alternator--you could control the voltage by adjusting the engine speed
assuming no voltage regulator in the alternator.
Float chargers are a wonderful invention that give you a "set and forget"
option.

Except I'd say don't forget to check the water.
 
V

Vaughn Simon

Jan 1, 1970
0
m II said:
At under one ampere charging current, I can't see the problem.
Even when my batteries are approaching 15 volts, I can't see any
<bubbles. My charger limits the current.

And at under 1 amp I have seen a problem, and seen it multiple times before I
finally learned, the hard way. So I guess it will just be up to the reader to
decide what to do. Myself, I would suggest that any reader go with what the
battery manufacturer recommends over any unknown advice from the Internet...even
if the writer happens to be me!

An unregulated solar panel as a trickle charge can also be a bad idea. Many
panels have rather high open-circuit voltages which will happily ruin a battery
if given enough time. Back in '01 it was my sad duty to help a family dispose
of my bachelor friend's "stuff" after his death. He had a small solar
electrical system out in a shed. I hauled several bad lead-acid batteries out
of that shed, every one dry as a bone. He had a 15 watt PV panel, but no
regulator that I ever found. Apparently my friend never figured out what was
happening to his batteries, but just continued to buy/scrounge them as quick as
he ruined them.



--
Vaughn

.........................................................
Nothing personal, but if you are posting through Google Groups I may not receive
your message. Google refuses to control the flood of spam messages originating
in their system, so on any given day I may or may not have Google blocked. Try
a real NNTP server & news reader program and you will never go back. All you
need is access to an NNTP server (AKA "news server") and a news reader program.
You probably already have a news reader program in your computer (Hint: Outlook
Express). Assuming that your Usenet needs are modest, use
http://news.aioe.org/ for free and/or http://www.teranews.com/ for a one-time
$3.95 setup fee.
..........................................................

Will poofread for food.
 
B

Bruce in alaska

Jan 1, 1970
0
Vaughn Simon said:
<bubbles. My charger limits the current.

And at under 1 amp I have seen a problem, and seen it multiple times
before I
finally learned, the hard way. So I guess it will just be up to the reader
to
decide what to do. Myself, I would suggest that any reader go with what the
battery manufacturer recommends over any unknown advice from the
Internet...even
if the writer happens to be me!

Been running a large Inverter/Charger/1200 Amp/hr Battery system for 26
years, and am just replacing the Third Set of Batteries in the Bank
this fall. Battery Bank is made up of L16HD's Three Strings Paralleled,
of 4 Batteries each, for 24 Vdc @ 1200 Amp/Hrs, feeding a Trace 4024.
My batteries cycle twice a day, as I run the Diesel Genset for two,
5 hour periods every 24 Hours. (7am to Noon, and 5pm to 10Pm) This keeps
the Freezers Cold, both my Inverter Banks charged to float, (the second
System is a set of AbsolyteII's 24 Vdc & 700 Amp/hrs feeding a Trace
U2624) and the Telco Batteries charged. Float voltage is set to
27.1 Vdc, Bulk is set for 28.8 Vdc and Equalize is set for once a month,
at 30.2 Vdc @ 4 hours. Batteries are watered once every two to three
months, just BEFORE the top of the plates go dry.

The first Bank was at 55% capacity when retired at 10 years. The second
bank made it 8 years, using the same setup and was retired at 60%
capacity. The last set is at 50% capacity and is 8 years old now.
Considering the system parameters and the high Cycle Rate, 8 years
seems to be the limit for L16HD Batteries. My Battery Supplier always
asks for one string to be returned to them as they like to send them
back to the Engineering Department, and tear them down for inspection,
and testing. I use the others, untill they actually FAIL, in various
applications around the place, but none of these are Critical like the
Inverter power is.
 
B

bw

Jan 1, 1970
0
Bruce in alaska said:
The first Bank was at 55% capacity when retired at 10 years. The second
bank made it 8 years, using the same setup and was retired at 60%
capacity. The last set is at 50% capacity and is 8 years old now.
Considering the system parameters and the high Cycle Rate, 8 years
seems to be the limit for L16HD Batteries. My Battery Supplier always
asks for one string to be returned to them as they like to send them
back to the Engineering Department, and tear them down for inspection,
and testing. I use the others, untill they actually FAIL, in various
applications around the place, but none of these are Critical like the
Inverter power is.

Do you control battery temperature?
Insulated battery box?
Any feedback on earlier autopsy? Positive plate limited?

Sounds like 8 years to 50 percent is near or better than design spec.
 
U

Ulysses

Jan 1, 1970
0
Vaughn Simon said:
<bubbles. My charger limits the current.
An unregulated solar panel as a trickle charge can also be a bad idea. Many
panels have rather high open-circuit voltages which will happily ruin a battery
if given enough time.

Yup. I just hooked up a pathetic little 1.5W panel to some AA batteries and
the open voltage was over 22 volts and it's still fairly early in the
morning.
 
B

Bruce in alaska

Jan 1, 1970
0
bw said:
Do you control battery temperature?
Insulated battery box?
Any feedback on earlier autopsy? Positive plate limited?

Sounds like 8 years to 50 percent is near or better than design spec.

Trace has Temp Compensation using a battery Temp Sensor.

No insulation required as these batteries are cycled twice a day and
self heat, while being charged. Just a note here, Lead Acid Batteries
that are more than 50% charged will not FREEZE, even in Alaska in
winter.

The Engineer who evaluated the first bank, set a really nice letter,
saying he had never seen a Battery is such good shape after 10 years
of Service in this type of operation. They did make a change in Plate
Configuration between Banks 1 & 2, but I really don't know the reasons.
 
B

Bruce in alaska

Jan 1, 1970
0
Neon John said:
Did he happen to mention what the cause for loss of capacity was? I'd guess
loss of active material but I'd like to hear it from the horse's mouth, as it
were.

John

He never really stated the actual reasons for loss of capacity, but I
speculate that it was due to Plate Surface Area Sulfation, over time.
 
V

Vaughn Simon

Jan 1, 1970
0
Bruce in alaska said:
Buy new batteries......

Now its not a secret any more.


--
Vaughn



.........................................................
Nothing personal, but if you are posting through Google Groups I may not receive
your message. Google refuses to control the flood of spam messages originating
in their system, so on any given day I may or may not have Google blocked. Try
a real NNTP server & news reader program and you will never go back. All you
need is access to an NNTP server (AKA "news server") and a news reader program.
You probably already have a news reader program in your computer (Hint: Outlook
Express). Assuming that your Usenet needs are modest, use
http://news.aioe.org/ for free and/or http://www.teranews.com/ for a one-time
$3.95 setup fee.
..........................................................

Will poofread for food.
 
Top