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Trojan T105 batteries charging

Discussion in 'Home Power and Microgeneration' started by RamRod Sword of Baal, Aug 30, 2008.

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  1. I have 4 x T105 trojan batteries in series giving me a 24 volt system

    They are currently just sitting there in case of a power failure and then
    the will generate 240 volts AC via my inverter.

    I feed them from a 40 amp basic battery charger, you know just a transformer
    and a rectifier.

    I put them on charge once a week or so and charge them at around 29.5 volts
    and once then have been on for say 12 hours the current drops down to under
    one amp, at the moment .7 of an amp, leave them on longer and the current
    drops futher. BTW outside temperature now (Night time here 5 AM) is 24 c or
    75 f. In the day it will be around 30 c or 86 f.

    I usually leave them on charge for about 24 hours at a time.

    Now as I want the batteries to have the longest life possible, is there any
    out there who have experienced keeping these batteries alive for a long
    period, and do they have any advice.

    No, I do not wish to spend a lot of money on an automatic charger. A 40 amp
    automatic charger cost over $AUS 1500.00

    So any advise on keeping these batteries healthy for a long time? They are
    curently about a year old and never been cycled, as I do have other power
    back up system.

    Before charging they usually are around 25.2 volts, and they never go below
    that as that is when I put them on charge.
     
  2. Vaughn Simon

    Vaughn Simon Guest

    Since the batteries are apparently connected to nothing, I see no reason to
    charge them more often than monthly. With a little monitoring, you may even be
    able to get by with quarterly. I don't think it is a good idea to leave them on
    that dumb charger for a full 24 hours. That would be like giving them an
    equalizer charge monthly. You need to leave them on until they reach whatever
    voltage the manufacturer recommends, and no longer. Constant overcharging will
    reduce their lifetime.

    If you value your batteries, I highly recommend an automatic float charger.
    You could still use your present charger for bulk charging.


    --
    Vaughn

    .........................................................
    Nothing personal, but if you are posting through Google Groups I may not receive
    your message. Google refuses to control the flood of spam messages originating
    in their system, so on any given day I may or may not have Google blocked. Try
    a real NNTP server & news reader program and you will never go back. All you
    need is access to an NNTP server (AKA "news server") and a news reader program.
    You probably already have a news reader program in your computer (Hint: Outlook
    Express). Assuming that your Usenet needs are modest, use
    http://news.aioe.org/ for free and/or http://www.teranews.com/ for a one-time
    $3.95 setup fee.
    ..........................................................

    Will poofread for food.




    Vaughn
     
  3. You

    You Guest

    Your Killing your batteries when charging them to 29.5 Vdc on a weekly
    basis. Once you get up to 28.8 Vdc your just boiling off H2. How often
    are you adding water, to your cells?
     
  4. m II

    m II Guest


    It's the current that makes batteries bubble. At that voltage, he is
    putting in under one amp. It's nothing to worry about.

    I have a small solar setup that keeps my batteries charged. With no load
    on them for a couple of days, I see 15.1 volts quite regularly on the 12
    volt battery bank. I fill up the electrolyte once every three of four
    months. When I need power, I get a lot of work out of them before I see
    a drop to 12.4 volts. I use the stereo, grinder, lights, drill and small
    welder (60-70 amps output).

    That high voltage is like a surface charge. If I turn on a small light
    for a few minutes, the voltage will drop to the normal 13+ range. In
    fact I HAVE to turn on a small light first, as the inverter won't work
    at any voltage above roughly 14.9

    Some people get a small 15 watt panel just to put and maintain that
    levelling charge on the batteries. It saves the charger being used for
    something that takes a long time.



    mike


    --
    __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __
    / /\ / /\ / /\ / /\ / /\ / /\ / /\ / /
    / /\ \ /'Think Tanks Cleaned Cheap'/ /\ \/ /
    /_/ \/_/ \/_/ \/_/ \/_/ \/_/ \/_/ \/_/

    Densa International©
    For the OTHER two percent.



    Due to the insane amount of spam and garbage,
    I block all postings with a Gmail, Google Mail,
    Google Groups or HOTMAIL address.
    I also filter everything from a .cn server.


    For solutions which may work for you, please check:
    http://improve-usenet.org/
     
  5. Vaughn Simon

    Vaughn Simon Guest

    The above is terrible advice that you might once have heard from me, because
    I once strongly held that theory. On my job, I ruined several sets of batteries
    with cheap 1-amp trickle chargers before I learned better. Listen to the
    recomendations of the folks who made your battery, and consistantly do what they
    say. Overcharging lead acid batteries is rarely a good idea.

    Float chargers are a wonderful invention that give you a "set and forget"
    option.


    --
    Vaughn

    .........................................................
    Nothing personal, but if you are posting through Google Groups I may not receive
    your message. Google refuses to control the flood of spam messages originating
    in their system, so on any given day I may or may not have Google blocked. Try
    a real NNTP server & news reader program and you will never go back. All you
    need is access to an NNTP server (AKA "news server") and a news reader program.
    You probably already have a news reader program in your computer (Hint: Outlook
    Express). Assuming that your Usenet needs are modest, use
    http://news.aioe.org/ for free and/or http://www.teranews.com/ for a one-time
    $3.95 setup fee.
    ..........................................................

    Will poofread for food.
     
  6. m II

    m II Guest


    At under one ampere charging current, I can't see the problem.
    Even when my batteries are approaching 15 volts, I can't see any
    bubbles. My charger limits the current.
    I've had these batteries for about three years now and they all still
    meet specifications. I hope to get another five or more years out of
    them. In my case, the depth of discharge is the only concern.


    I see a lot of these statements out there and a small solar cell meets
    the 'maintenance' requirements nicely.

    =================================
    Next comes the Float Step. This is a regulated voltage of not more than
    13.4 volts and usually less than 1 amp of current. This in time will
    bring the battery to 100% charged or close to it. The float charge will
    not boil or heat batteries but will maintain the batteries at 100%
    readiness and prevent cycling during long term inactivity.

    http://www.batterystuff.com/tutorial_battery.html
    =================================


    mike

    --
    __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __
    / /\ / /\ / /\ / /\ / /\ / /\ / /\ / /
    / /\ \ /'Think Tanks Cleaned Cheap'/ /\ \/ /
    /_/ \/_/ \/_/ \/_/ \/_/ \/_/ \/_/ \/_/

    Densa International©
    For the OTHER two percent.



    Due to the insane amount of spam and garbage,
    I block all postings with a Gmail, Google Mail,
    Google Groups or HOTMAIL address.
    I also filter everything from a .cn server.


    For solutions which may work for you, please check:
    http://improve-usenet.org/
     
  7. Ulysses

    Ulysses Guest

    I would have to call "equalizing" overcharging so I don't think that's quite
    what you meant.

    My view on battery charging is this: The batteries should be charged up to
    whatever voltage the manufacturer recommends for ABSORB charging. This
    voltage should be held until the batteries are fully charged according to a
    hydrometer (wet cells). This time will vary according to the charge rate in
    amps. Once this is accomplished the batteries can be kept on FLOAT
    according to the manufacturers reccomendations. Equalizing should be done
    periodically. If they are used daily then about every four to six weeks is
    a common practice. If they are not being used every six months might be
    enough. The only way I know how to tell if they need to be equalized is by
    seeing if the cells are equal (or pretty close). This part may take some
    experience with the particular battery bank.

    The main problem I see with just using a transformer and rectifier is that
    you cannot control the ABSORB, EQUALIZE, and FLOAT voltages. I have a
    "Smart" charger that cost $90 at Wamart but it's 12 volt. It did, however,
    do a good job of keeping my batteries in good condition for about four
    years. Another inexpensive option might be a small engine and
    alternator--you could control the voltage by adjusting the engine speed
    assuming no voltage regulator in the alternator.
    Except I'd say don't forget to check the water.
     
  8. Vaughn Simon

    Vaughn Simon Guest

    <bubbles. My charger limits the current.

    And at under 1 amp I have seen a problem, and seen it multiple times before I
    finally learned, the hard way. So I guess it will just be up to the reader to
    decide what to do. Myself, I would suggest that any reader go with what the
    battery manufacturer recommends over any unknown advice from the Internet...even
    if the writer happens to be me!

    An unregulated solar panel as a trickle charge can also be a bad idea. Many
    panels have rather high open-circuit voltages which will happily ruin a battery
    if given enough time. Back in '01 it was my sad duty to help a family dispose
    of my bachelor friend's "stuff" after his death. He had a small solar
    electrical system out in a shed. I hauled several bad lead-acid batteries out
    of that shed, every one dry as a bone. He had a 15 watt PV panel, but no
    regulator that I ever found. Apparently my friend never figured out what was
    happening to his batteries, but just continued to buy/scrounge them as quick as
    he ruined them.



    --
    Vaughn

    .........................................................
    Nothing personal, but if you are posting through Google Groups I may not receive
    your message. Google refuses to control the flood of spam messages originating
    in their system, so on any given day I may or may not have Google blocked. Try
    a real NNTP server & news reader program and you will never go back. All you
    need is access to an NNTP server (AKA "news server") and a news reader program.
    You probably already have a news reader program in your computer (Hint: Outlook
    Express). Assuming that your Usenet needs are modest, use
    http://news.aioe.org/ for free and/or http://www.teranews.com/ for a one-time
    $3.95 setup fee.
    ..........................................................

    Will poofread for food.
     
  9. Been running a large Inverter/Charger/1200 Amp/hr Battery system for 26
    years, and am just replacing the Third Set of Batteries in the Bank
    this fall. Battery Bank is made up of L16HD's Three Strings Paralleled,
    of 4 Batteries each, for 24 Vdc @ 1200 Amp/Hrs, feeding a Trace 4024.
    My batteries cycle twice a day, as I run the Diesel Genset for two,
    5 hour periods every 24 Hours. (7am to Noon, and 5pm to 10Pm) This keeps
    the Freezers Cold, both my Inverter Banks charged to float, (the second
    System is a set of AbsolyteII's 24 Vdc & 700 Amp/hrs feeding a Trace
    U2624) and the Telco Batteries charged. Float voltage is set to
    27.1 Vdc, Bulk is set for 28.8 Vdc and Equalize is set for once a month,
    at 30.2 Vdc @ 4 hours. Batteries are watered once every two to three
    months, just BEFORE the top of the plates go dry.

    The first Bank was at 55% capacity when retired at 10 years. The second
    bank made it 8 years, using the same setup and was retired at 60%
    capacity. The last set is at 50% capacity and is 8 years old now.
    Considering the system parameters and the high Cycle Rate, 8 years
    seems to be the limit for L16HD Batteries. My Battery Supplier always
    asks for one string to be returned to them as they like to send them
    back to the Engineering Department, and tear them down for inspection,
    and testing. I use the others, untill they actually FAIL, in various
    applications around the place, but none of these are Critical like the
    Inverter power is.
     
  10. bw

    bw Guest

    Do you control battery temperature?
    Insulated battery box?
    Any feedback on earlier autopsy? Positive plate limited?

    Sounds like 8 years to 50 percent is near or better than design spec.
     
  11. Ulysses

    Ulysses Guest

    Yup. I just hooked up a pathetic little 1.5W panel to some AA batteries and
    the open voltage was over 22 volts and it's still fairly early in the
    morning.
     
  12. Trace has Temp Compensation using a battery Temp Sensor.

    No insulation required as these batteries are cycled twice a day and
    self heat, while being charged. Just a note here, Lead Acid Batteries
    that are more than 50% charged will not FREEZE, even in Alaska in
    winter.

    The Engineer who evaluated the first bank, set a really nice letter,
    saying he had never seen a Battery is such good shape after 10 years
    of Service in this type of operation. They did make a change in Plate
    Configuration between Banks 1 & 2, but I really don't know the reasons.
     
  13. Who are these batteries made by?
     
  14. These were all InterState Batteries.....
     
  15. He never really stated the actual reasons for loss of capacity, but I
    speculate that it was due to Plate Surface Area Sulfation, over time.
     
  16. Buy new batteries......
     
  17. Vaughn Simon

    Vaughn Simon Guest

    Now its not a secret any more.


    --
    Vaughn



    .........................................................
    Nothing personal, but if you are posting through Google Groups I may not receive
    your message. Google refuses to control the flood of spam messages originating
    in their system, so on any given day I may or may not have Google blocked. Try
    a real NNTP server & news reader program and you will never go back. All you
    need is access to an NNTP server (AKA "news server") and a news reader program.
    You probably already have a news reader program in your computer (Hint: Outlook
    Express). Assuming that your Usenet needs are modest, use
    http://news.aioe.org/ for free and/or http://www.teranews.com/ for a one-time
    $3.95 setup fee.
    ..........................................................

    Will poofread for food.
     
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