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Treadmill motor control board testing

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting and Repair' started by vocal, Apr 17, 2013.

  1. Aegir

    Aegir

    1
    0
    Jul 16, 2014
    I have a different problem but with the exact same board. When you plug the machine in and switch on the power, the code P1 appears. When you press 'Start' the power trips, not only on the machine but it also caused the circuit breaker to trip in the domestic consumer unit. I have removed the entire pcb and given it a damn good clean etc.

    I am trying to track down a replacement board as I don't have sufficient test equipment to dig around - thing is the sticker on the actual treadmill says Gym Motion, I note that another post on here describes the brand "Hyper Extentsion"

    Er.... Help???? PLEASE! This treadmill is part of the gym equipment for my local fire department and they need all the help they can get!
     
  2. Wes

    Wes

    5
    0
    Sep 30, 2014
    Hi all,
    It's been a good reading about the problems Mr "Vocal" from Canada had with His treadmill. And I've learned a few things as well. Especially from the sugestions /comments of the Moderator who went through the whole process of helping "Vocal".
    Just recently friend of mine gave me a treadmill motor 220VDC /11.4A /3.5HP. with not working control board. Unfortunately no console. Just motor and MCB. So I even don't know what the treadmill brand is. But the control board is almost identical to what Mr "Vocal" had. Here's the mark: TS-LCB3-08 2008.03.26. What I did so far hoping to get it going?
    Checked the brushes and tested the motor with 17vdc all's good. Replaced the blown power resistor (56K/5W) and big capacitor 470uF/400v. Tested the two IGBT's - G40N60 - good. Tested the rectifier - F30U60DN - good. Checked the voltage regulator 7812CT and 3 blue contactors (applying 12vdc to the coils) - ok. Paralel to them diodes 1N4004 - ok.
    Where's problem, then. Almost 0 voltage across motor pinouts Only 1.8vdc.
    Didn't touched IGBT driver MC33153 and photocouplers PC817. I'm running out of ideas especially with my very limited knowleadge of electronics. Please see the pictures attached and ... Please HELP!

    Wes DSCN1659.JPG

    Motor Control Board.jpg
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 25, 2019
  3. vocal

    vocal

    35
    0
    Apr 17, 2013
    Hello Wes,
    I think you will not run it without upper control board with start button
     
  4. Wes

    Wes

    5
    0
    Sep 30, 2014
    Many thanks Vocal. That's my worry, too. I think the MCB has been "locked" somehow and needs a signal form the console (upper board) to start up.
    But on the other hand surley it's not a rocket sience and it must be a way to "unlock" it without start button on the console That's why I posted this on the Forum, to find out if it's possible. I think it is, but as I said my knowledge is limited and I can't solve it by myself.
    It also could be handy for others not so fortunate to have upper board; only the motor and MCB, I think.
    BTW Vocal, what is/was your treadmill brand? My MCB is almost identical to the pictures of yours. I'd appreciate your response.

    Cheers, Wes
     
  5. vocal

    vocal

    35
    0
    Apr 17, 2013
    First of all :))
    I am not from Canada, I am from the UK and english is not my native language.. but lets get to the point :)

    I do not have access to the machine anymore. I think your PCB is earlier or later version of mine. It looks like they just redesigned the PCB. However, As far as I remember all the controls goes from console to the main PCB trough the wide white connector. I am really not specialist and I have a little experience in electronic. I have put lots of effort to repair mine PCB. As you read trough, I forced myself to track and draw PCB so someone with knowledge could help me. If I remember it well, all the 'commands' go from the console but Im not sure what kind of signal it is. How many pins, wires should be connected and in what way. For sure, there is one pin, which connected to the ground will start the motor.
    However, thinking about it more, I have impression that first of all you need to set the elevation, speed, and other parameters, before being able to press the start button.
    What would you like to achieve without control board?
    Do you want the motor just spin?
     
  6. Wes

    Wes

    5
    0
    Sep 30, 2014
    Running the motor from the mains through bridge rectifier and capacitor is not an option. I'd like to have it fully controled when using with my wood late, especially not to loose any torque on lower speeds. I know I can only achive this having the DC motor controlled by PWM means. If that not going to happen just with the treadmill MCB - that's fine. Not the end of the world. Just placed that problem on the Forum cos couldn't find anything like that before.
    Anyway, thanks Vocal for your reply and sorry for mixing UK with Canada. All the best!

    Cheers, Wes
     
  7. IamJatinah

    IamJatinah

    16
    0
    Oct 28, 2014
    Hi All, there is a certain issue if you can read 300v on motor pins! Read the motor ratings and post them for us. I am assuming you have crossed grounds during readings possibly? Normal operation of these controllers is as such....
    1) Power up - motor control board biases self and provides power to upper console. Display lights up, UCB beeps
    2) Push Start or Go button....
    a) Upper Board (UCB) does sanity check, refreshes displays, prepares speed/elevation settings/readings
    b) UCB "enables" control boards with Safety Relays(required by designs/IEC), and/or SCR pass device, energizing motor rail
    c) MCB completes sanity check and watches for commands for speed (pwm) and/or elevations
    d) PWM from UCB begins at approx 7-12% duty-cycle, driving on-board signal path to main HexFet/IGBT
    1) MCB maintains sanity checks on returning motor spin speeds(if used) and roller feedback(belt movement)
    2) UCB maintains sanity check on above listed signals as well, to regulate and control speeds and lift

    Most 115v units will drive a dc brushed motor at about +25vdc thru ~ +130vdc for motors rated at 100-120vdc
    Most 220v units will drive a dc brushed motor at about +55vdc thru ~ +230vdc for motors rated at 220vdc

    Control boards with this design should have a resting(biasing) voltage on the motor power rails of about +15-20vdc before the motor rail is energized for motor use, when this biasing voltage is irrelevant. E1 errors often relate to a missing or faulty feedback signal from either a motor encoder or roller which is compared to a value expected by the related PWM drive signal. Controllers like this use an Off-Line switching scheme and can bite extremely hard if you don't keep your Grounds separate, and are considered HOT grounds, so please be careful ;o) Contact me if you need further help
     
  8. Wes

    Wes

    5
    0
    Sep 30, 2014

    "Just recently friend of mine gave me a treadmill motor 220VDC /11.4A
    /3.5HP. with not working control board. Unfortunately no console. Just
    motor and MCB. So I even don't know what the treadmill brand is. But the
    control board is almost identical to what Mr "Vocal" had. Here's the mark:
    TS-LCB3-08 2008.03.26. What I did so far hoping to get it going?
    Checked the brushes and tested the motor with 17vdc all's good. Replaced
    the blown power resistor (56K/5W) and big capacitor 470uF/400v. Tested the
    two IGBT's - G40N60 - good. Tested the rectifier - F30U60DN - good. Checked
    the voltage regulator 7812CT and 3 blue contactors (applying 12vdc to the
    coils) - ok. Paralel to them diodes 1N4004 - ok.
    Where's problem, then. Almost 0 voltage across motor pinouts Only 1.8vdc.
    Didn't touched IGBT driver MC33153 and photocouplers PC817. I'm running out
    of ideas especially with my very limited knowleadge of electronics. Please
    see the pictures attached and ... Please HELP!"

    As you can see this is what I've posted on this Forum few weeks ago, asking
    for help to solve a problem.
    So Mr IamJatinah what's your suggestion? Any ideas?

    Cheers,

    Wes
     
  9. IamJatinah

    IamJatinah

    16
    0
    Oct 28, 2014
    Hi There, sorry for the delay. I am looking at the pic as I type this reply to help organize things, and thanks for the pic btw. Here are the few things I can spot right off....
    1) 2 left Relays, blue, are for elevation Up/Down, with tab connectors next to them.
    2) Large Blue Relay in the center of the board is the "Safety Relay",and MUST engage
    for any motor voltage to appear at Tabs 1 & 2
    3) White connector "5" looks to house all control I/O signals, Enable, PWM, Up/Down, E-Stop?
    4) White connector 6, 2-pin, should go to a reed or magnetic switch to a front roller magnet
    5) White connector 7, 3-pin, should go to a small connector coming from the elevation assembly
    6) White connector marked 4 looks to be a Transformer tap(secondary)
    7) White connector marked 3 looks to be a Transformer tap(secondary)
    8) Opto's marked PC817 are most likely PWM(speed command, and Enable(or E-Stop)
    Both active to operate
    9) Dual IRFxxxx Driving Modfets with one Kickback Diode(30u60)

    Just find the PWM In on that little daughter board, or the Enable, and you have your keys.
    greg
     
  10. Wes

    Wes

    5
    0
    Sep 30, 2014

    Many thanks Greg. Appreciate your comments very much. Yes, you spot on with your 1-9 observations.
    "Just find the PWM In on that little daughter board, or the Enable...". With my limited knowledge I can only ask How can I find it.
    Please find few more pics and my handwriting (sorry) circuit with connections from both PC817 to the daughter board .. and guide me from there.

    Cheers, Wes DSCN1759.JPG DSCN1754.JPG DSCN1739.JPG
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 9, 2015
  11. IamJatinah

    IamJatinah

    16
    0
    Oct 28, 2014
    Great penmanship I'd say! Hmm....to find the PWM input signal to that little daughter board, first lets look up the TL494 PWM controller IC that I see int eh picture, which is the main switch controller for the walking belt speed commands. There will be a comparator inside the TL494 which is usually connected to the drive input which can be a signal or a level. The easiest way I have found to dig up the Enable signal, is to power up only the secondary low level power supplies, use pull-down resistor to check each pin that I know is not power or gnd, and listen for a relay click. If you get lucky and hear a relay click, you have found the enable line. ;o)
     
  12. Tinkerer

    Tinkerer

    1
    0
    Mar 12, 2015
    Hello, I ended up with exactly the same board ( two of them ) and exactly the same motor, so I have exactly the same problem. Only difference is that I have top console daughter board with a keypad.
    So I connected it all up, and the motor spins nicely, of course you must use speed sensor that provides feedback back to the board. However, I do not want to go trough all the settings just to turn my lathe on (heart rate, incline, etc,), so I'm looking for a way to get this board going using on/off switch and speed control pot.

    Sooo...I did some research and came up with a conclusion that PWM signal comes from that little board that sticks out vertically out of the main board. It already has TL494 PWM controller on it, pots to control duty and frequency, etc. Would it be possible that the little board does nothing until it gets turned on by a pair of opto couplers ( PC817 ), which in turn get switched on by a top console logic circuit ?

    Wold you say, if I switch those optos on, the PWM circuit is going to power up, and I will be able to control my motor using pots that are on the board already ?

    Not sure exactly, but it seems logical that the easiest way to disable or enable PWM signal would be to turn the circuit on or off....
     
  13. IamJatinah

    IamJatinah

    16
    0
    Oct 28, 2014
    Hi There, well, nice work on looking up the TL494 and understanding it's use and purpose, although there is a lot going on around that tl494, more than just a magical PWM drive signal and an on/off switch. First lets remember that motor drive rail is a HOT-Grounded power rail with lethal voltages on it. Then, lets remember that the speed command from that upper console is "electrically isolated" by those little PC817 opto isolators, as this is mandated by many agencies around the globe, to keep human interfaces(buttons, switches,pots, pretty much anything you can touch that is conductive) "isolated" for safety reasons, therefore we can't simply install a potentiometer to that TL494 and adjust it's duty-cycle with a simple pot. Instead, we vary the PWM drive signal from the upper console to regulate the motor drive, related to it's feedbacks for speeds, currents, voltages, PFC, Ground-faulting and other faults, in realtime and constantly in order to be safe.....this makes a simple project of a lathe a bit troublesome....but there are alternatives and easy ways to do this.
    There is a motor drive maker in Wisconsin, gemini, that made or makes a drive model 12M04 which can use a simple 10k pot attached to three fast-on connectors and requires no feedback, but that's the only unit I can think of that has an open design like you are looking for.
    If you'd like to keep going on this project, you should consider a small PWM drive controller using a simple UC3843 and you must also pull that other PC817 opto "on" while providing the PWM drive to allow that TL494 to start it's own drive PWM for the motor which is a different frequency as the incoming console pwm frequency. Good Luck! ;o)
     
  14. astigmat

    astigmat

    1
    0
    Feb 5, 2017
    Hello all - reviving an older thread since my treadmill won't fire up. It's a Bowflex Series 5 treadmill and it used to work great.

    The control boards all appear to power up, but I get an "LS" error when I hit Start. The LS error typically has something to do with a defective speed switch but the motor never even tries to move and then the error kicks on after about 5 seconds. If I manually force the belt to move, the LS error never comes on (implying the speed sensory works) but the motor still never starts. It should be noted that the SPD SENSOR LED on the MCB does turn on when the sensor should be closing the circuit so I believe the speed sensor and cable work fine. I don't believe I can hear any relay switching on from the motor control board at any point.

    I did manage to make the motor run by plugging it into an 18 volt drill battery so I don't believe the motor is the problem.

    The V_CON LED does light up, but the PWM LED on the MCB never lights up.

    I cannot find any spots that look like they have been visibly "toasted" on the MCB.

    I also opened up the top portion of the treadmill to make sure everything was plugged in and also not burnt. All fuses have continuity.

    I'm really hoping somebody can get me headed in the right direction. I have a digital multimeter but not an oscilloscope.

    I have attached images of my MCB.

    IMG_4044.JPG

    IMG_4045.JPG
     
  15. IamJatinah

    IamJatinah

    16
    0
    Oct 28, 2014
    Hi There.....This is a common unit thru our facility. The part about the PWM LED never lighting up or "flashing" when you press Start or Go, appears to show no speed command getting to that lower board. That LS error is a default error thrown when the belt speed doesn't match a setting upstairs within a few seconds. That missing speed signal can be held up by a sensor, cabling, the lower boards 74HC14, or the upper board not processing that signal correctly.
    You can see D30 is a "Speed Sensor" LED, this will flash when the unit is powered up, but no motor engaged or started, and spin the belt with your hand. The speed sensor should make that LED blink as the magnet reaches and leaves that sensor, that way you can see that sensor working. Now that LED flash must then go thru an IC then to the upper board, so even if the LED works, that doesn't always mean the feedback gets to the console.
    The PWM signal is also routed thru the 74HC14 on it's way from the console to the control circuits.
    Now, in the past, the console cable has been an issue due to "Spreading" of the pins inside the connector housings which can cause intermittent connections, but we have also seen the upper board fail on these and the Series 7. You are welcome to contact me directly at jatinahATrocketmailDOTcom for more info or repair options.
     
  16. JoeF

    JoeF

    1
    0
    Mar 10, 2017
    Hi Astigmat/Jatinah

    I'm curious if you were able to get your treadmill going following the suggestions Jatinah gave you?

    I also wanted to confirm that the 15amp slow blow fuse does not blow when you try to run your machine.

    Have you checked the voltage at the motor output leads on the MCB (A1,A2)? If so, what is the voltage reading?

    Thanks

    Joe
     
  17. ABDUL SAMEE

    ABDUL SAMEE

    7
    0
    Apr 4, 2017
    model b304 s10 treadmill driver board . showing e1 error after 10 sec . when press start it just very little bit moves and stops after 10 seconds display shows e1 error ... in driver board all lights glow once and off ... except power led. i am testing components of driver board .. can we run to test driver board directly without upper keyboard and display board ?

    Model no B304 S10

    when pressed start it just very little bit spin like just start and sudden stop. after count 10 seconds display shows e1 error . all lights glow in lower driver board and off.

    i checked mosfet's , rectifiers , but problem not solved...

    also i have a doubt that upper display+keyboard having damage ? so i want to run driver board directly how to run it i dont no .. if driver board works then the display+keyboard should be faulty... plz give any solution...

    i also schematic for this model ...

    please give any solution to solve it ... i checked some components but unable to solve ..
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 25, 2019
  18. MecTec

    MecTec

    1
    0
    Feb 24, 2019
    I have two boards which are almost identical to Vocal's, one on a working Trends treadmill and the other from a HyperExtension with a damaged top console. After playing around with them have discovered answers to a number of the questions raised in this thread. Firstly, the control board can be used to run a pmdc motor without the top control unit provided you have a way to inject a pwm signal. It may also run with just a potentiometer for speed control, but I haven't tried that yet. It is all achieved through access to the socket which connects the top control unit. Pin 1 is "enable" and pin 8 is ground. A low voltage between 3V and 5V applied to pin 1 turns the motor control board on, but the power rail and led don't turn on until you also apply a signal to pin 5. The control signal to pin 5 from the top board for speed control on a working treadmill is a 1.5 volt pwm signal with a duty cycle between 0.06 and 0.65. When this signal is applied, the thyristor (Q2 on the schematic) turns on and powers up the large capacitor and the board generates a pwm signal to drive the IGBT. Pin 6 is the unregulated 18V dc supply voltage to power the top unit, and can be a useful power supply for the auxilliary electronics you need to drive it.

    I have used an Arduino to apply a 50kHz pwm signal at 1.5V to pin 5, along with a 5V enable signal to pin 1, and the 2hp treadmill motor can be controlled very smoothly from 400 RPM to over 4000RPM with a duty cycle range of 10 to 70%. I previously ran the motor using a cheap 4000W SCR, but it was extremely noisy and the oscilloscope trace of the applied voltage showed so much noise and spikes that I feared for the motor's longevity. I am now in the process of hard wiring everything into a control box, and learning how to code the Arduino for PID speed control so the motor speed can be maintained under varying load.

    It is useful to note that the slow start-up safety routine for the treadmill and speed sensing is all done in the top unit, so is not a problem when you control the motor directly from the board. I also found that the optocoupler (U1 on the schematic) had failed on one of my boards, which produced the symptoms described in several posts above of the motor only running for a few seconds when it is turned on. I determined that the optocoupler was at fault, rather than the thyristor, by bypassing it temporarily through shorting out U1 terminals 4 and 6 to force the thyristor to turn on.

    The control board itself does not need to be altered, but I removed the fuse which supplies power to the elevation controls for safety. It goes without saying that there are high voltages on many components on this board and you should not touch it at all if you are not competent to do so.

    I hope this is helpful to others who might consider using this board to drive dc motors.
     
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