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Trailer and Power Generator

A

amdx

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hurricane season is coming and I needed to get a source of emergency
power to keep my business inventory frozen
if we do lose power. I don't have a convenient place to permanently place
the generator, so I decided to put it on a
trailer. Now I can store it in the back yard and move it near the house as
needed.
I was almost ready to buy the Honda EU6500isa for $3,400 but found the
Miller Bobcat 250 for $3,389 with
58% more watts and I think the welder will hold it's value better, so I
bought the Miller.

I got the trailer from Harbor Freight, Regular price $259.99 on sale for
$199.99 but I was only billed $179.99. :)
http://www.harborfreight.com/1090-l...-12-inch-four-lug-wheels-and-tires-90153.html

I bought a Miller Bobcat 250 welder with 9,500 watts continuous power.
http://www.harrisweldingsupplies.com/millerwelderbobcat250.aspx
Check their ebay price, $100 cheaper but they offered the ebay price to me.

Pictures below.

My son helping with assembly in the living room. Air conditioned workshop
(wife was working)
http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp37/Qmavam/P1013355.jpg

Trailer assembled except for fenders.
http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp37/Qmavam/P1013356.jpg

Trailer with 3/4" plywood base.
http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp37/Qmavam/P1013357.jpg

Trailer with welder mounted, Balance worked out well, about 30 lb tongue
weight.
http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp37/Qmavam/P1013366.jpg
I can push it around the yard myself.
Welder is 560 lbs, trailer rated at 1090 lbs.
Don't have plans to tow it on road, but trailer came with title, fenders and
lights.

I'll be adding a drop on cover to keep the rain off.
Cover design thoughts still churning.

Mike
 
A

amdx

Jan 1, 1970
0
Ignoramus8716 said:
Looks pretty good. Place some mothballs into the generator to keep
critters out.

i
Thanks iggy,
I was awake at 3am thinking about mice chewing on the wiring.
Mike
 
A

amdx

Jan 1, 1970
0
RoyJ said:
Tongue weight is a bit light if you plan to actually tow it on the
highway. Rule of thumb for smaller trailers is tongue weight = 10% of
gross trailer weight, more if the CG is high. The short tongue and light
tongue weight will really wag badly. Move the unit about 2" forward and
you should be good to go.

I'll keep that rule of thumb in mind. I got lucky on the balance, I
centered
the welder with the engine to the rear and it came out as stated. The welder
is 45-3/8" and the trailer is 48", no more room to move unit forward.
If it had been negative weight on the tongue, I had thoughts about moving
the axle/spring mounting location. Or rotating the welder 180*, I might
still look into that as it would be slightly more convenient to have the
controls and connections in the rear.
Mike
Mike
 
P

PeterD

Jan 1, 1970
0
Thanks iggy,
I was awake at 3am thinking about mice chewing on the wiring.
Mike

Also when you wake up at 3AM worrying about mice, consider doing a
exercise run of the generator set. Run for about an hour or so (fully
loaded) at least every 30 days, and at critical times, maybe every two
weeks. Also don't forget to keep the battery charged! (and to have
fuel, lots of fuel, on hand...)
 
A

amdx

Jan 1, 1970
0
Uwe Hercksen said:
Hello,

is the generator protected against water when standing outside in a heavy
rainfall?

Bye

Not yet, but as I said in my original post,
"I'll be adding a drop on cover to keep the rain off.
Cover design thoughts still churning."
I wish I could find the metal from a discarded above ground swimming pool.
I could use that to make a nice arching cover.
Mike
 
V

vaughn

Jan 1, 1970
0
Just a couple of thoughts after looking at your pix:

1) Those trailers rust on the angle iron frame under the plywood, where it tends
to stay damp. That same dampness rots the plywood! The cure is tar or some
type of calking to exclude the water from running down the gap between the
plywood and the steel. The only alternative is inside storage.

2) For on-road travel, make sure that the generator is somehow fastened to the
frame of the trailer, not just to the plywood.

Vaughn
 
A

amdx

Jan 1, 1970
0
--
MikeK
vaughn said:
Just a couple of thoughts after looking at your pix:

1) Those trailers rust on the angle iron frame under the plywood, where it
tends to stay damp. That same dampness rots the plywood! The cure is tar
or some type of calking to exclude the water from running down the gap
between the plywood and the steel. The only alternative is inside
storage.

2) For on-road travel, make sure that the generator is somehow fastened to
the frame of the trailer, not just to the plywood.

Vaughn
Hi Vaugh,
1) That was in the plan, but then I got started and it seemed to have good
paint
on it, so I didn't undercoat. I did use treated plywood.
2) This trailer was in lieu of putting a concrete pad in an inconvenient
place.
Now I can just wheel the generator where I need it for as long as I need it.
Hopefully I won't need it.
 
H

hamilton

Jan 1, 1970
0
Miller Bobcat 250

Is this an air cooled generator ??

Can an air cooled gen run for 24/7 ??

I thought that they need to be shut down every few hours.
( I don't know any better )

Are there are water cooler gen's of this size ??

I am sure they would cost a lot more.

Thanks for any info.

hamilton
 
V

vaughn

Jan 1, 1970
0
hamilton said:
Is this an air cooled generator ??

Can an air cooled gen run for 24/7 ??

Yes, no reason why not. That said: there is a vague classification of
generators called "Prime Power" generators that are truly made to run 24/7/365.
This is a portable "standby" generator, so is not made to that standard (not
even close!) but is fine for occasional duty that may run into weeks.
I thought that they need to be shut down every few hours.
( I don't know any better )

An air-cooled generator loaded and used within its specifications will get as
hot as it is going to get in 15 or 20 minutes. perhaps sooner. There would be
no reason to let it "rest" every few hours, except to give your ears a rest,
save fuel, and check the oil.
Are there are water cooler gen's of this size ??

Yes. They are bigger, heavier, quieter, & more expensive. There is a reason
why most cars have water cooled engines!

Vaughn
 
H

hamilton

Jan 1, 1970
0
Yes, no reason why not. That said: there is a vague classification of
generators called "Prime Power" generators that are truly made to run 24/7/365.
This is a portable "standby" generator, so is not made to that standard (not
even close!) but is fine for occasional duty that may run into weeks.


An air-cooled generator loaded and used within its specifications will get as
hot as it is going to get in 15 or 20 minutes. perhaps sooner. There would be
no reason to let it "rest" every few hours, except to give your ears a rest,
save fuel, and check the oil.

Thanks, thats is what I wanted to know.
Yes. They are bigger, heavier, quieter,& more expensive. There is a reason
why most cars have water cooled engines!

This also makes sense.

hamilton
 
G

GregS

Jan 1, 1970
0
Yes, no reason why not. That said: there is a vague classification of
generators called "Prime Power" generators that are truly made to run 24/7/365.

This is a portable "standby" generator, so is not made to that standard (not
even close!) but is fine for occasional duty that may run into weeks.


An air-cooled generator loaded and used within its specifications will get as
hot as it is going to get in 15 or 20 minutes. perhaps sooner. There would be

no reason to let it "rest" every few hours, except to give your ears a rest,
save fuel, and check the oil.


How about refuel.

Of course I have done that without shutting off during amateur field day.
I did like to check the oil.

You should have a shut offf valve after the fuel tank, and this is
absolutely required for storage inside.

You can make sound baffles for noise.

Ground rods are nice.

Exactly how your going to connect to devices is always interesting.
 
A

amdx

Jan 1, 1970
0
You can make sound baffles for noise.

Ground rods are nice.

Exactly how your going to connect to devices is always interesting.
Ya! The initial purpose is to keep 12 chest freezers running.
Now that I have a 9,600 watt generator, there is some thought about
getting a transfer switch installed, so I can have air conditioning during
a hurricane power outage.
Mike
 
G

GregS

Jan 1, 1970
0
Ya! The initial purpose is to keep 12 chest freezers running.
Now that I have a 9,600 watt generator, there is some thought about
getting a transfer switch installed, so I can have air conditioning during
a hurricane power outage.
Mike

One at a time start-up.!!!!
 
A

amdx

Jan 1, 1970
0
Zowie! Think about getting a walk-in freezer, dude! Twelve
chest freezers has a lot of surface area to insulate, one big
unit would be lower maintenance and less power usage.

Yes, but they also dry out the food quicker. Then fan blows
cold dry air over the food whenever it runs.
Maintenance on a chest freezer? About the time it goes bad
it's time to get a new one.
Also if the walkin goes bad, where do I put $20,000 worth
of seafood, NOW! Plus it is over three tons, 65 lbs at a time.
If one freezer goes bad, we always have one empty one to move
product into.
I have a 1 wire system that runs to my computer. Several time a day when
I'm on the computer. I monitor the temperature of each freezer.
Here's a screen shot;
http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp37/Qmavam/LampomitarriScreenprintJPG.jpg
I have 13 sensors, Three are in the empty freezer group.
note they are red, meaning they are over temperature (-5F). In that EMPTY
group
I have one that senses outside air temperature (#10). The other group of
freezers
that has seafood in them, I call the FULL freezer group. If anything in the
full freezer group
turns red, I need to look at it.
Mike
PS. been at this 11 years, got it pretty well figured out, now the oil may
put us out of business.
 
N

Neon John

Jan 1, 1970
0
Zowie! Think about getting a walk-in freezer, dude! Twelve
chest freezers has a lot of surface area to insulate, one big
unit would be lower maintenance and less power usage.

Well, let's do a little math based on actual data. I've logged all
the power consumptions of all the appliances in my house and in my
restaurant.

Initial cost.

An 8' square walk-in costs about $5,000 installed. A large chest
freezer is around $300 at Sam's Club. 12 freezers is $3600. The win
on initial cost goes to the chest freezer.

Capacity: No contest - 12 large chest freezers hold far more than a
walk-in because, well, one must leave room to walk around in the
walk-in.

Operating cost.

The large chest freezer that I have in my home consumes $4.41 a month
in electricity. Multiply that by 12 and $52.92. My approx 10' X 6'
walk-in freezer consumed $94.92/month measured during the summer
months. Again, the win goes to the chest freezers. All measurements
were done with calibrated revenue meters.

http://www.neon-john.com/Misc/Energy_Audit.htm

Reliability

The walk-in has several single point failure vunerabilities. The
condensing unit. The liquid solenoid valve. The defrost timer. The
defrost heater. Etc. All failed during the 12 year life of that
walk-in. Unfortunately the compressor failed during our vacation
closing and all was lost. Insurance paid out about $8000 for that
one. If a chest freezer fails, he might lose those contents but the
other 11 are still running. Win goes to the chest freezers.

The one major area where the walk-in wins is cool-down. The chest
freezers are so economical to operate because their refrigeration
systems are just barely large enough to keep already-cold contents
cold. Cool-down is very slow. The walk-in, OTOH, with its 3HP
compressor and high velocity evaporator fans would freeze a steam
table pan of boiling hot stew in about an hour.

So based on the numbers, the correct advice is "keep the chest
freezers, dude!"
 
A

amdx

Jan 1, 1970
0
--
MikeK
Neon John said:
Well, let's do a little math based on actual data. I've logged all
the power consumptions of all the appliances in my house and in my
restaurant.

Initial cost.

An 8' square walk-in costs about $5,000 installed. A large chest
freezer is around $300 at Sam's Club. 12 freezers is $3600. The win
on initial cost goes to the chest freezer.

Capacity: No contest - 12 large chest freezers hold far more than a
walk-in because, well, one must leave room to walk around in the
walk-in.

Operating cost.

The large chest freezer that I have in my home consumes $4.41 a month
in electricity. Multiply that by 12 and $52.92. My approx 10' X 6'
walk-in freezer consumed $94.92/month measured during the summer
months. Again, the win goes to the chest freezers. All measurements
were done with calibrated revenue meters.

http://www.neon-john.com/Misc/Energy_Audit.htm

Reliability

The walk-in has several single point failure vunerabilities. The
condensing unit. The liquid solenoid valve. The defrost timer. The
defrost heater. Etc. All failed during the 12 year life of that
walk-in. Unfortunately the compressor failed during our vacation
closing and all was lost. Insurance paid out about $8000 for that
one. If a chest freezer fails, he might lose those contents but the
other 11 are still running. Win goes to the chest freezers.

The one major area where the walk-in wins is cool-down. The chest
freezers are so economical to operate because their refrigeration
systems are just barely large enough to keep already-cold contents
cold. Cool-down is very slow. The walk-in, OTOH, with its 3HP
compressor and high velocity evaporator fans would freeze a steam
table pan of boiling hot stew in about an hour.

So based on the numbers, the correct advice is "keep the chest
freezers, dude!"

Way cool man!
We actually have a walk in, 9' x 6' x 6' we ran it for a short time as
needed.
But haven't used it for 5 or 6 years, it seems to be good as a storage
locker at
this point. I plug it in occasionally just as maintenance.
My wife's gut feeling is that it uses a lot of electricity. She is quite
aware of where
the pennies go, so I didn't argue.
I like to have real numbers, thanks for the study you made.
As far as cool down, when we get shrimp to load in the freezers it is
already frozen.
If it wasn't, it would probably go bad before it froze! We usually put
about 600 lbs
in one freezer.
Mike
 
H

hamilton

Jan 1, 1970
0
I asked the electrical inspector about that, but with an RV type plug
wired to only a single receptacle inside and no connection to the
house wiring, and he threw a snit fit. Is that legal and if so how can
I prove it?

jsw
As long as you don't have a fire, it's legal.

If you have a fire, after a power outage, then it's over.

good luck

hamilton
 
A

amdx

Jan 1, 1970
0
--
MikeK
on initial cost goes to the chest freezer.
Not fair. The walk-in takes 64 sq feet of floor area, the
twelve chests take over twice that. What's the cost of
a building nowadays, $30 per square foot?


It is cubic feet, not floor area that counts. The walkin is at least
2 times the height of the feezers.

Again, unfair. Choose the right size of walk-in and redo that
argument.

Refer to previous answer, a larger walkin will cost even more.


This sounds odd to me; firstly, a freezer indoors costs you twice,
..in freezer electricity and (in summer) again in airconditioning cost.
Secondly, walk-in freezers ought to have the same efficiency as
a chest freezer, and should need less cooling because they have
similar insulation but lower external surface area.

My freezers are outdoors in a screened porch.
I agree on your lower external surface area, same efficiency
staement.
Reliability

The walk-in has several single point failure vunerabilities. The
condensing unit. The liquid solenoid valve. The defrost timer. The
defrost heater. Etc. All failed during the 12 year life of that
walk-in. Unfortunately the compressor failed during our vacation
closing and all was lost. Insurance paid out about $8000 for that
one. If a chest freezer fails, he might lose those contents but the
other 11 are still running. Win goes to the chest freezers.
Your 'spare' for the walk-in is gonna be a phone call to get
a refrigerated container delivered. Any trucking company can
do this for you. I'm dubious that you plan to lose all of
the contents of a chest if/when one fails, either.

I never said I would lose all the contents of a chest freezer.
That's why my alarms are set at -5F, so I get an early warning.
And we always keep an empty one.
And with
twelve chest freezers, they're gonna fail twelve times as
often. Either way, your contingency plans should cover faults.

Maybe, but chest freezers seem to have long lives, 10 to 20 years.
 
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