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Thinking of installing myself...

Discussion in 'Security Alarms' started by Kremlar, Apr 1, 2006.

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  1. Jim

    Jim Guest


    On the other hand anyone buying equipment on line from someone like you
    wouldn't have a clue that you're a convicted felon for pulling a gun on
    someont and responsible for someones death either.And because of that
    you couldn't get an installation license anyway. Have the authoities is
    Florida finished investigating you ...... again, for the SECOND time,
    for skirting the alarm trade laws in your state? Are you still
    operating your business from South America ..... so you can avoid them?
    Well, you can't stay there forever. They'll get ya sooner or later.

    Isn't it YOU that"'s got a years and years long record in Usenet of
    going real life with people by calling their places of emploment and
    telling lies about people simply to get them in trouble because you
    don't like them. And it's you also that goes to competitors websites
    and makes derogatory comments, under a false name, to make your
    competitor look bad too ...... aren't you the one who does things like
    that. Why SURE you are.

    On the surface, when someone comes to this group for information, no
    one would actually know that you lie to end users by implying that your
    in the installation business and that you haven't got a clue about what
    the new products do, except what you read ..... or steal from the
    people in this group or from publications from manufacturers. Why the
    end useres wouldn't even consider that you've got numerous unsetteled
    Better business claims against you either ..... unless someon pointed
    it out now would they?

    So lets see ...... why don't you tell us again how the end user should
    beware of installation companys and consider doing the job himself?
    Yes, yes, tell us how much safer he is buying his products on line from
    someone like you.

    Oh and if any of the above is incorrect or if you'd like to call me a
    liar, go right ahead. But we all know that you can't ........ because
    it's all been documented in Google for the years and years that you've
    been scamming end users in Usenet.


    You' seee Beebee? What did I tell ya was gonna happen eventually?
    You've burned all the bridges and too many people. Now it's all coming
    together naturally. Just the way it should. Just the way I thought it
    would. You're getting exactly what you deserve. No one will tolerate a
    nasty vindictive lying swindler forever.
     
  2. Jim

    Jim Guest


    Mark, I would caution you on providing any information about yourself
    or your company. You may or may not know that he's gone real life with
    numerous people for over 10 years in Usenet and touts this method as
    being his favorite way of "taking care" of people that take issue with
    is abhorrent conduct.
     
  3. Jim

    Jim Guest

    Mike I hope you don't really leave. It's people like you who see this
    sack of shit for what he is and to continue to beat the piss out of
    him. As long as everytime he post to this group he gets his ass kicked
    ....... individually by the people he demeans, that'll be the end of him
    eventually. If you leave ....... he wins.
    Stick around ............. there are still some diamonds in all this
    crap.

    OH and by the way ............ that was B E A U T I F U LLLLLLLLLLL
    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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    HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
     
  4. Mike Sokoly

    Mike Sokoly Guest

    Mark,
    Thanks for your professional attitude!
    It's a refreshing change from the blowhard bullshit of RLB!
    It's my time to say that I no longer have any need of this crap-ass
    Group as long as it allows dick-sucking vermin like Bass to do what he
    does here! I neither have the time nor energy to waste wading thru the
    rhetoric and idiot shit he spews here. My time and talent is best served
    on other sites that are considerate, professional and helpful to their
    respective members. The miniscule VALUABLE information I gleen from here
    is not worth finding wading thru the Nonsense that FATASS dumps on here!
    That's it for me- Good Luck to All-
    Jim and Frank, Keep kicking his ass till the cows come home- but watch
    that your foot doesn't get stuck there!
    To You Mr. Bass- you are nothing more than the arrogant cock-sucking
    leach that Jim and Frank identify you as - you are a wanna- be
    credential-less detested pile of crap-
    Hope you Ticker holds out you sack of shit!
    In the of the Alien in "Independence Day"- when the President asks-
    "what do you want us to do?" Answer: "DIE"!
     
  5. Optional

    Optional Guest

    What do the policies of the local AHJ have to do with anything?
    Residential alarm installations are not inspected in any jurisdiction
    I know of.

    I am familiar with building construction and the electrical codes.

    Can you elaborate on the specialized skills required?
     
  6. Bob Worthy

    Bob Worthy Guest

    He knows better than that. Professional companies don't and most cases can't
    do that. He is assuming, because when he was in business and being
    unlicensed himself , he could get away with it so he thinks it is a normal
    method of operation. He has heard about the old days of subcontact piece
    workers hired by the lick'm and stick'ms companies that aren't around
    anymore. Even the Authorized dealers that started with that old mentallity
    are being realed in to comply. Just another piece of evidence showing that
    he is soooooo far removed from the business today, that when he makes such
    accusations, he doesn't make just an bASS out of himself, but literally
    sounds stupid.
     
  7. Bob Worthy

    Bob Worthy Guest

     
  8. Bob Worthy

    Bob Worthy Guest

    All systems are permitted, inspected and user registrations applied for in
    most all major muncipalities here in Florida. In serveral cities, you cannot
    get a user permit without a building permit and approved inspection. As far
    as specialized skills, that is left open to interpetation. What comes easily
    to some (with or without experience) is very troublesome to others. Fishing
    for wires in behind walls for instance. Drilling blind with 48" to 72" drill
    bits for instance. Drywall patching and texturing without making it look
    like a patch for instance, removing molding without it turning into
    toothpicks for instance, mounting a device so that when closing the nearest
    door it doesn't fall off the wall for instance, drilling a window or door
    wall and not have the glass crack or literally shatter for instance, not
    hitting electric wires in behind walls when your drilling for instance,
    water (plumbing pipes) are fun too, not drilling up through the roof when
    drilling into the attic for instance, knowing how to do attic work without
    disturbing installation, a/c ducts, or most commonly, putting your foot
    through the ceiling for instance, making penetrations through fire walls,
    fire stops, draft stops, demizing walls, adding proper sleeving, proper fire
    barrier caulking for instance, proper locations for devices and proper
    devices for locations for instance, proper classification of wire for
    certain applications for instance and I am not refering to guage, and we
    haven't even tried to make it work yet. Special skills are not just hand eye
    coordination, turning of a screwdriver, etc. but also the knowledge that is
    accummulated over a long period of time. Reading a book or taking some
    instructions over the phone is a minimum. You won't know the full magnitude
    until you dive into it.
     
  9. JoeRaisin

    JoeRaisin Guest

    I take a bit of umbrage at that comment as well. In Michigan we only
    need a state license to install fire alarms but it is our company policy
    to always have a licensed individual at least check on a site wether it
    is a fire system or not. Unlicensed techs are only turned loose after
    they prove themselves competent. This usually takes at least four to
    six months. By that time they are either capable of doing the job or
    they don't work for us anymore.

    The fire alarm technician license requires a NICET level II before you
    can test for it.

    We also undergo a background check prior to hiring on.

    We do a lot of work in high end (multi-million dollar) 'vacation' homes
    so we take pride in our installations and any "hacks" that manage to
    make it through the job interview and background check don't last very
    long in the field. When your installers are drilling holes in doors and
    windows custom made out of mahogany (usually from down your way, Robert)
    you ensure that those installers know what the hell they are doing.

    If the consumer takes a few minutes to check on the local companys (a
    primate with a telphone could do it - its not rocket science) he/she can
    find a reputable firm that will provide quality equipment and
    installation at a reasonable price.

    Maybe a monkey with a screwdriver 'could' install a system but I bet he
    pops a hole in the vapor barrier fishing down an insulated wall....
     
  10. JoeRaisin

    JoeRaisin Guest

    One quick caveat about DIY.

    Check with your homeowners insurance carrier.

    The insurance company I use gives me a 15% discount on my annual rate
    for having burg/fire alarm monitored (5% non-monitored) but you have to
    provide them with a certificate of installation from the installing
    company. Since most companies (AFAIK) won't simply take your word that
    you have a system, ask specifically about how they verify a DIY
    installation and make sure you do it the way they want.

    The other reason the insurance guys like the professional installation
    is that if you drill through a water pipe (or elctrial wire or any of a
    hundred other possible mishaps) - they pay to fix it, if I drill through
    one (not yet and don't plan on it) - my company's insurance pays to fix it.

    As for wireless... Wireless systems and devices these days are pretty
    good and I even have two windows in my own home protected by wireless.

    That being said, the doors, all the other windows, motions and smokes
    are wired because wired is just a whole lot easier in the long run. I
    prefer wired over wireless for many reasons.

    The other thing to consider is even with a wireless system (unless it is
    one of those self contained "hang on the wall and plug into a phone
    jack" types) you still have to run wires for siren, keypads, telephone,
    ground and power at the very least.

    If you are considering monitoring, are you familiar with how the alarm
    panel seizes the line and how that needs to be wired?

    Take a trip to Home Depot and check out the 48" and 72" drill bits -
    they look easy to handle especiall with that nice "L" shaped tool that
    helps you control it... careful in the outside walls or you end up with
    all the insulaton in that particular stud space in a nice tight roll
    relentlessly holding your expensive new bit tightly in the wall.

    I apololgize if I come off sounding like an arrogant bastard (I am not -
    really) but I have done takeovers on a few half finished DIY abortions
    and those are never good days.

    I would reccomend you contact all the companies providing service in
    your area. Get references but more than that, drive around and look for
    homes with signs and stickers and stop in and ask them about their
    experience with the company they use.

    If you are confident in your abilties then go for it - I put gas in my
    car and can change tires, belts and even a few hoses... but I let the
    pros screw with the brakes - just too damned important.

    How important is the safety of your family?

    OK - the post wasn't quite as quick as I intended. Sorry

    Joe
     
  11. Umbrage is free. Take all you want.
    That's good. Can every alarm company in Michigan say the same? If not, how can
    the client know that the salesman in his living room represents a good company
    like yours or a fly-by-night, incompetent con artist like Fowler?
    By your firm, ok. What about all the rest? Like I said above (just north of
    the umbrage part) some are great and some are well, Fowler.
    That's great. The problem is the guys you fire for incompetence go right down
    the street to work for dolts like Fowler, Sabodish and others of the same ilk
    who couldn't care less about quality.
    The problem with that is it only detects convictions. It won't reveal much at
    all about whether he's honest. In all the years I ran my own alarm company I
    fired only three people -- two for being lazy and one for dishonesty. The one
    was a competent installer but when he accidentally broke an inexpensive item in
    a customer's basement, instead of telling me and the customer about it he tried
    to hide it. When I found out about it I had to let him go. That guy had no
    criminal record -- not even a traffic ticket. But he was not trustworthy.

    OTOH, I was entrusted with the security of over a thousand homes and businesses.
    In my office was a key safe containing keys to hundreds of clients' premises. I
    never even so much as considered taking anything or doing anything dishonest.
    Yet I'd fail your test because of a 30-year-old assault conviction. So what
    does the background check really tell you?
    Mahogany windows? Not from here I think. Perhaps the Philippines?
    You do and I always did. Please don't take my comments about a portion of the
    industry as being intended toward companies like yours. I think I was clear
    that there are both good and bad installers. The problem is the customer can't
    often tell which he's going to get.
    I disagree. Though there are plenty of good, competent firms offering alarm
    services, the consumer has a very hard time distinguishing them from the hacks.
    Just look at the number of systems the so-called "authorized dealers" are
    slopping in every day. Add to that the volume that hundreds of garbage firms
    like Milford sell and you have a tidal wave of junk alarm work. If it were easy
    for consumers to spot the gems and the turds Fowler, Sabodish and people like
    them would be out of business in no time.
    That depends on the kind of instruction he gets more than anything else. If the
    online store provides good support the DIYer stands a very good chance of having
    an excellent system.

    --

    Regards,
    Robert L Bass

    Bass Burglar Alarms
    The Online DIY Store
    http://www.BassBurglarAlarms.com
     
  12. The insurance company I use gives me a 15% discount on my annual rate
    Absent that, a bill of sale describing the alarm system, accompanied by a
    written statement from the installer (in this case the DIYer) will usually do.
    I've dealt with this hundreds of times.

    --

    Regards,
    Robert L Bass

    Bass Burglar Alarms
    The Online DIY Store
    http://www.BassBurglarAlarms.com
     
  13. Frank Olson

    Frank Olson Guest

    Robert L Bass wrote:


    Again... Something you can't substantiate. Until you can, the
    homeowner is left with only one clear choice (and that doesn't involve DIY).

    Frank Olson
    http://www.yoursecuritysource.com
     
  14. Doug L

    Doug L Guest

    It tells me it works

    Doug L
     
  15. JoeRaisin

    JoeRaisin Guest

    We do a lot of work in high end (multi-million dollar) 'vacation'
    Not the actual windows... just the mahogany.

    Often the windows are hand made in England (with ropes and weights no
    less) but the bragging rights are always becasue they are made from
    "Brazillian Mahogany"



    Checking references doing a tiny bit of research on a company you are
    thinking of doing business with is not hard... just a bit inconvenient.
    Which is enough for most folks to skip it - myself included.

    Just because a lot of consumers don't do smething doesn't mean its not easy.
     
  16. Mahogany windows? Not from here I think. Perhaps the Philippines?
    This would fall under the "Something New Every Day" category. Although I live
    in Brazil part of the year, I was not aware until your post that they were such
    a huge exporter of mahogany. Apparently, the Brazilian agricultural agency
    (EMBRATEL) has even taken an interest in controlling the amount of mahogany
    being harvested here. Interesting stuff.
    And yet con artists like Fowler continue to flourish and consumers continue to
    be ripped off by them.
    True. That's what I've been saying about DIY for years. Most people don't want
    to install their own alarms because they don't know how, haven't the time,
    aren't interested or just don't know how easy it is to do. For those who are
    willing to take a little time learning the basics though, there's an opportunity
    to save from several hundred to several thousand dollars up front and much more
    over the long haul.

    For those who want a professional installation, if they find someone responsible
    and caring, great. Some of those who fall victim to Fowler and people like him
    sometimes decide their next alarm will be a DIY project. Even some who have
    previously hired competent professionals decide that they want to DIY because of
    the wider selection of equipment and features (at a given price point) that is
    available to them.

    --

    Regards,
    Robert L Bass

    Bass Burglar Alarms
    The Online DIY Store
    http://www.BassBurglarAlarms.com
     
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