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Thinking of installing myself...

Discussion in 'Security Alarms' started by Kremlar, Apr 1, 2006.

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  1. Kremlar

    Kremlar Guest

    I've just recently started looking into home security systems. I have an
    ADT guy coming tomorrow, and have a call into a local security company.

    When I built my house, I wired up for pretty much everything but a home
    security system (big mistake I think). So one of the things I'm considering
    is wired vs wireless.

    Is this something I can do myself? I'm a amateur with residential wiring
    (done some but not a ton), but completely in the dark on home security
    systems.

    Are there any sites out there that could give me some basic information and
    point me in the right direction??

    Thanks!
     
  2. Beats

    Beats Guest

    Don't do it!!!
    The thing that matters most is getting a skilled installer. The gear is
    all pretty much the same (ruling out over the counter junk) but you
    need some one good.

    Trust me; I have been installing for 16 years I started with home
    alarms now I do airports. Get a known company and don't go cheap on the
    motion sensors.
     
  3. Is this something I can do myself? I'm a amateur with residential wiring
    You can DIY if you don't mind spending a little time learning about the various
    options and how/where to use them. It's not rocket science. The wiring is 2
    and 4-conductor stuff. Programming the system can be a mild pain but I know
    thousands (quite literally) of DIYers who have done it.
    I own one of the largest alarm stores on the web catering to DIY homeowners and
    businesses. I have information on most of the major brands of alarms which
    professional installers use. I've been in the business for over 29 years and am
    willing to spend as time explaining what to use, how to install it and how to
    configure the system.

    Note: You'll find some folks who install for a living insist that no one but
    them (of course) can possibly install a proper alarm. The average education
    level of alarm installers is about half-way through the 11th grade. There's
    nothing particularly complicated to the job if you stick to basic protection --
    magnetic door & window sensors, "dual tech" motion detectors, perhaps a few
    glass break detectors if the location is right for them, etc.

    You can also install smoke, heat and carbon monoxide detectors if those are a
    concern. There are protocols to follow when installing fire protection but the
    ones that apply to most single family residential alarms are easily learned in a
    few minutes.

    Browse my website and/or give me a call if you'd like to discuss your plans.

    --

    Regards,
    Robert L Bass

    Bass Burglar Alarms
    The Online DIY Store
    http://www.BassBurglarAlarms.com

    --

    Never underestimate the power of very stupid people in large groups.

    --

    Regards,
    Robert L Bass

    Bass Burglar Alarms
    The Online DIY Store
    http://www.BassBurglarAlarms.com
     
  4. Mike Sokoly

    Mike Sokoly Guest

    Perhpas some knowledge of NFPA 70, Ohms and Kirchoff's Laws and
    Resistance and Voltage Drop would help. Proper wire sizing and Load
    calculation for battery Backup comes in to play, also.Plenty- ask a Professional, Licensed Installer on this group.
    Note: You'll find some folks who install for a living insist that no
    one but
    Going to the library, reading a book, and installing it yourself- even
    if it works- does not mean its installed safely!
    The average education
    You'll also find individuals with College Degrees, and Industry Specific
    Training as well as Licensed Teachers.
    There's
    Do you understand the technologies and how and where to properly locate
    the devices? If you do then go ahead- consider any False Alarm Prevention?
    Be careful- Are you aware of the wiring requirements? What about how
    they wil be reported to Central Station if you choose that?
    There are protocols to follow when installing fire protection but the
    Most Local Laws allow you to install Battery-Type detectors in your own
    home- some prohibit "System -Type" to be installed by ANYONE othe than A
    Licensed Alarm Professional.
    If your considering 3rd Party monitoring- who will you get to monitor a
    system that they didn't install-or the liabilities that may occur?
     

  5. Watch your credit card with this scammer. Look waht happened to this guy's
    card. There were others.

    "Consumer: Beware BassHome.com"

    From (Brian Karas)

    Well, I said I wouldn't respond to your continued misunderstanding of MIME
    and
    VCards, and I don't intend to
    address that here, but you make a couple of statements that really irked me,
    the biggest concern is the last comments
    you made...

    As I've pointed out before, you alone have swayed my opinion of you. If you
    search through DejaNews to about 12-15months
    ago you'll find a post in comp.home.automation where I publicly and strongly
    defended you when someone else called one
    of your PR: type posts spam. I've disagreed with you, and made mention that
    you have a thin understanding of the
    Internet and Usenet, but I've also said publicly that I believe you are very
    intelligent in your trade.
    Recently a topic or two has come up in misc.homeowners about alarm systems,
    and
    I've referred one or two people to
    your website. If you call my disagreement with you abuse or slander, so be
    it.


    Go answer your e-mails that people constantly complain about you not
    answering.
    Or fix your e-mail system, you seem
    to have plenty of time and technology to keep up with Usenet posts. I'll
    give
    you a hint, the people e-mailing you
    _WANT_ to hear your opinion...
    You find my public posting of you disagreeable, and I'll admit that I
    sometimes, or even often, may take a strong
    stance against your opinions. I may be completely blind to your side, but I
    haven't considered any of my posts
    unsubstantiated attacks on you. I have sided against you, and tried to give
    relevant data to back up my arguments,
    perhaps I could have been more eloquent. Had I been just some guy making
    random slanderous attacks on you,
    I might understand why you'd simply delete any mail with my name on it,
    however, you did not see fit to delete the
    orders I've placed through your website?

    Yes, for those still following along I've ordered about $500 worth of
    components from Robert in the last few months.
    I'm a telecommunications geek by trade, and an Automation and cabling
    installer alongside my 'day job' I've
    recently begun to pursue alarm systems as a branch of my private business.
    My
    biggest alarm installs have been
    assisting others, and/or my own house. When I had to buy some products
    recently I went to http://www.Basshome.com,
    not because of price, not because Robert is my best friend, but because
    despite my disagreement with him I felt he
    had an efficient online store and I wanted to 'reward' his efforts with my
    business. I could have gone to
    any number of local places and received identical equipment at competitive
    prices, but I didn't.

    After ordering some Napco equipment, I had some questions about the
    automation
    and X-10 add-ons, basically I wanted
    to know the differences between them, etc., as his website didn't really
    clarify this. So, I sent him an e-mail,
    which as I mentioned, and he confirmed went unanswered.

    So Robert, your overall stance seems to be that you will help any DIY'er so
    long as they _publicly_ agree with you.
    However, should someone do a moderate amount of business with you and later
    disagree with you, all support is cut off,
    eh?

    This is what your actions and words state, and I caution anyone who orders
    from you that you have a strange way of
    doing business.

    This would almost seem like a complete story, but there is a bit more to
    it...

    When I buy things via the Internet I use a debit card as a credit card, as a
    small security measure, should the
    number fall into the wrong hands I can easily minimize my loses and cancel
    the
    card without disrupting the rest
    of my finances, however it's sometimes a less than perfect way to transact
    business. During a a recent order
    with Bass for about $380 there was some difficulty in processing the card.
    There was more than enough funds in
    my account, but the bank didn't authorize the card on the first try. Robert
    (and/or his wife) e-mailed me directly
    with questions/concerns about the card. After verifying my address the
    order
    still wouldn't go through, so his wife
    resorted to calling me on the phone to clear things up, which we did. This
    process probably took about 4 days to a
    week and resulted in about 4 e-mails back and forth and a couple of voice
    mails. During this time Robert had to be
    more than aware of who I was, as I had posted other 'nasty' public
    disagreements with him, but no mention was
    made in the e-mails or phone calls that he would provide no support after
    the
    sale.

    I hope this message serves to warn some of those who might consider giving
    him
    some business, or otherwise putting
    their faith or trust in him...

    Robert has also publicly stated that he doesn't take things too seriously,
    and
    is quick to make amends, however
    I'd have to doubt this...

    Robert, I'm sure my $500 didn't buy you an Armani suit, or allow your family
    to take a tropical vacation, but perhaps
    you should state somewhere on your webpage that you only support those who
    support _you_ with words rather than dollars.

    I do apologize to all the others that have had to sift through these
    constant
    small wars and battles

    [email protected] 'at' @Karas. 'dot' .com.
    Return address munged to prevent SPAM...
    SOHO DataComm wiring, FAQ's, etc:
    http://www.PhysicalLayer.com
     
  6. Mike,
    He's a knucklehead that sells alarm parts. Don't waste your
    time discussing proper installations with him.
    BTW, I have another tech who is ready for Levels I thru IV
    Certification and I am NOT sending him to NAAA. Do you know of anything
    in my neck of the woods that he can attend on weekends?
    Email me a # where I can reach you on Sunday so we can chat about it.
    BTW, in another thread we discussed cell backup in NY, and my opinion
    is our coverage sucks here. What's your opinion of the coverage?

    Thanks

    Tom
     
  7. The only things he needs to know about NFPA72 for a DIY residential alarm are
    were to put smoke detectors and where and how loud the sirens need to be. He'd
    need to know Ohms laws to calculate wire sizes if the job was a large,
    commercial structure. I've installed hundreds of residential systems and smoke
    detectors were *always* wired with 18/4 (I use it even for 2-conductor smokes
    just in case I need an extra loop later). Burg circuits invariably use 22/4
    (same rule of thumb with 2-wire magnetic sensors). Transformers and sirens use
    18-gauge, stranded cable. The ground wire is usually 14-gauge, stranded with a
    green jacket. Like I said before, this isn't rocket science.
    It's pretty simple stuff. Insert magnetic contacts in door and window frames.
    Install pet resistant motion detectors in corners facing into the room (ie, not
    at the windows) and not facing onto stairs or furniture onto which Fido is
    likely to jump when the postman passes by. Install glass breaks (if using
    these) on any wall or ceiling opposite or adjacent to protected windows.

    Install a minimum of one smoke on every living level (ie, not the attic or
    garage). Place one inside each bedroom (new construction). Place another
    outside the bedrooms and within 12 feet of each bedroom door. Stay outside and
    5' or more away from a bathroom with tub or shower and kitchen /laundry rooms.

    If the furnace is separated from the rest of the basement, install an ROR-135
    (not required but good to do) there. Install a smoke at the top of every
    stairway but at the bottom of the basement stairs. Some locations can serve
    more than one rule. For example, if the 2nd floor bedroom hallway isn't very
    long you can install one smoke there to fulfill the per floor, top of stairs and
    outside bedroom requirements.
    Now he does. False alarm prevention might best handled by someone other than an
    alarm installer. The industry standard has been 98% false alarms for years.
    The problem is compound -- poor quality equipment, bad installation practices
    and lack of proper client training. The latter is apparently the greatest issue
    since the vast majority of false alarms are caused by user error.

    One of the advantages of DIY is that the client becomes much better educated
    about his alarm system, how it works and how to use it, than he would if he paid
    a professional to install it for him. It's somewhat analogous to learning to
    get around a strange city. When I started spending time in Brazil the first
    thing I did was buy a car. Salvador is an ancient city and the winding streets
    are confusing even to the locals. So I bought a map, asked directions from
    people who have been here for a few years when necessary and started out. In
    short order I got to know my way around town better than many locals (who
    invariably ride buses or taxis).
    I explained that in one short paragraph above.
    Most of the alarm systems I sell online to do-it-yourselfers have software to
    facilitate programming. The selection of whether to be monitored is the
    client's choice. With a professional installation the choice is usually limited
    to "Do you want it monitored" or "Go away. We won't help you."
    That is categorically false. Please don't muddy a good thread with that sort of
    false claim.

    In the USA anyone can install smoke detectors, system or stand-alone, in his own
    home. Only those who do this for pay are required to be licensed. The
    licensing statutes are designed to protect the public from unscrupulous or
    incompetent contractors. They are not intended to prevent people from doing
    their own work.
    There are numerous options. One of them is a company called NextAlarm. They
    offer UL-listed monitoring through a network of associated monitoring facilities
    around the country. IIRC, they charge $8.99 a month (less than a third what
    many professional installers charge) for the same services the pros use.

    Note that most independent alarm installing companies do not operate their own
    central stations. The work is farmed out to large, regional central stations
    (aka "third party monitoring" companies). The CS charges the dealer anywhere
    from $2 to $7 a month for their services. The CS usually provides the dealer
    with professionally drawn contracts which protect both dealer and CS from
    liability if they screw up. Some will accept the dealer's own contract if it
    has the proper verbiage. The dealers then resell the service which costs them
    $2-7 a month for anywhere between $20 and $40 a month to the public.

    This makes a very nice source of recurring monthly revenue for the dealer.
    After a few years a dealer may have several thousand accounts, each profiting
    him $13 to $38 a month. This makes a very strong incentive for the dealer to
    discourage people from DIY and for insisting that all their installations
    include a multi-year monitoring contract.

    The above isn't a slam against dealers. It's just a factual explanation of the
    monitoring profit center and why it motivates those who sell installed systems.
    The problem for the consumer is that the dealer may or may not be very talented.
    His crew might be well-trained or they might be hacks picked up at the
    unemployment line. The problem is that the customer has no way to know whether
    the dealer in his living room is a good guy or a dolt. Most are decent, honest
    people and most try their best to provide good service. Others unfortunately
    are quite the opposite.

    At least with DIY the customer knows that the person doing the installation is
    only interested in doing the best job he can.

    --

    Regards,
    Robert L Bass

    Bass Burglar Alarms
    The Online DIY Store
    http://www.BassBurglarAlarms.com
     
  8. FIRETEK

    FIRETEK Guest

    You make some very valid points, Mike. There is some "science" involved in
    installing alarm systems. My wife was home the day the crew arrived to
    install ours. She was not only impressed with the efficient manner in which
    the cable was routed to the different protection points, she was amazed at
    how they managed to get it into places we both thought would be next to
    impossible. Not only that, they were able to identify some incorrectly
    wired outlets that the previous homeowner had had installed and which our
    inspector missed.

    We're very impressed by the level of professionalism demonstrated by the
    company and I have no regrets. The extra expense incurred by hiring a
    professional company was well worth it. I had been contemplating doing it
    myself as my company has accounts with all the major suppliers, but decided
    against it. I don't enjoy crawling around in attics as I've had to on
    occasion in my job.

    I'm not certain where Mr. Bass gets his information regarding the "average
    educational level" of individuals in the alarm profession, but it's been my
    experience that most people you meet these days have Grade 12 or better.
    I've sat in on many job interviews and helped in short-listing applicants.

    I visited Mr. Bass' website for the first time this morning to see what it's
    like. I'm running Windows 98SE on my home computer and had to fight through
    seven different pop-up windows just to view the home page. They all had to
    do with a program called WinFixer which I wasn't interested in installing.
    It was annoying to the point that I didn't bother clicking on any of the
    menu items because I just didn't want to go through all that again.

    Of even greater concern is the possibility of having to return items that
    are either not working or require warranty service. Find a local dealer and
    save yourself the headache of having to keep all the boxes and packing
    materials, the extra steps and expense involved in shipping something back
    for refund or credit, and the possibility that the warranty may not be
    honoured because the equipment wasn't installed by a qualified individual.
    I remember what I had to go through when I purchased a telephone online that
    had a defective nine button. I shudder to think how long someone would have
    to be without an alarm system if the common control went on the fritz, or if
    the keypad stopped working. The company we use has a four hour response
    time guarantee, and all their vans carry replacement parts.

    Regards,

    Frank
     
  9. Frank Olson

    Frank Olson Guest


    "That is categorically false. Please don't muddy up a good thread with
    that false claim".

    In B. C., you can't "pick up" a "hack" from the unemployment line and
    put them to work the same day. They have to be screened by having a
    criminal back-ground check done, and then licensed. A number of
    jurisdictions are starting to require at least the back-ground check. I
    run a security information site with links to many state sponsored
    initiatives.

    In B.C. the apprentice technician must either have three years of
    documented work experience and pass an exam before they can receive
    their "Technical Qualification" (TQ). The only way to get around the
    three year requirement is to go through the BCIT course which gives them
    a 1.5 year credit.




    In BC, (and many other jurisdictions) installers are "TQ'd" and licensed
    by the Government. "Dolts" are on the unemployment line, have moved
    back home with "Dad", sell a plethora of equipment online that they
    either wouldn't recommend installing themselves (or have never
    installed), and/or post huge PR and HTML files to Newsgroups from Brazil.


    Frank Olson
    http://www.yoursecuritysource.com
     
  10. Nomen Nescio

    Nomen Nescio Guest

    Mike Sokoly said:
    In fairness, I've known damn few alarm installers who knew Kirchhoff's
    Laws. Or needed to.

    - badenov
     
  11. Frank Olson

    Frank Olson Guest

    You obviously didn't read the fine print in your contract. The four
    hour response time has nothing to do with getting to your house in four
    hours. The actual response time depends on how often the service guys
    visit the "counter" to read the "urgent service" bulletins tacked on the
    cork board over the coffee machine. Speaking of which I found a bunch
    on the floor behind the refrigerator from November 2003. I better get
    on those.

    As for the vans... wait till you see the Smart Cars. I figure we'll be
    able to carry at least twenty spare Loxxon boxes in the trunks. Larry
    and Jim say "hi" and are still raving over your wife's chocolate chip
    cookies. :)

    Frank Olson
    http://www.yoursecuritysource.com
     
  12. Funny how numerous anonymous posters have suddenly appeared in ASA lately. The
    odds that this character actually works for a manufacturer are about as slim as
    you getting a straight answer out of these morons.
    --

    Regards,
    Robert L Bass

    Bass Burglar Alarms
    The Online DIY Store
    http://www.BassBurglarAlarms.com
     
  13. Frank Olson

    Frank Olson Guest


    Yeah... Real funny. Like all the guys posting into the Group
    requesting DIY specific information... So many aliases, Robert... Who
    ya gonna choose next?? Why not work a bit more on that excellent
    customer support you're always crowing about. Funny how in the last
    *year* there's been 16 new complaints filed at the BBB about that (your
    much vaunted customer service). That's actually pretty pathetic!

    Frank Olson
    http://www.yoursecuritysource.com
     
  14. Mike Sokoly

    Mike Sokoly Guest

    oh so the reason the manufacturers instuctions tell you to calculate
    battery load is only there to wipe your ass with?
    So it's not neccessary to understand whether a PIR works better across
    the detector beam or that a microwave detector works better towards and
    away? Just put em in the corner cause all perps walk to the corner!
    No need to know what the range of the glassbreak is- ignor the part
    where the manufacturer says test with THEIR tester. Heavy curtains on
    the windows- Nah won't affect them just put em on the opposite wall.
    Ah, in NY its within 4 feet-but then again he's a homeowner, he doesn't
    need to follow any rules. I don't know about Brazil, but up here you had
    better put them where NFPA 72 says- or you don't get a C.O.
    So you don't sell anything but "Quality" equipment? Or is all if it "poor"?
    You validate my point- proper client training. Ditto for many so called
    "Installers" too.
    Oh, so he doesn't have to be concerned with proper wire size for long
    runs, whether or not to use FPL wire for smokes and heats- twisted pair
    22/2 is fine.
    No, most UL Central Stations Won't monitor a system installed by an
    unqualified individual- somthing about liability- is he properly trained
    and qualified to be able to change programming? Might fing that in NFPA
    70- sorry don't need to follow that!
    Care to substantiate that here in NY?
    You are categorically incorrect! Apparently you are ignorant of Local
    Codes in some jurisdictions-
    Some people will do anything for a $!
    Not all dealers insist on multi-year contracts.
    Yes he may be interested in doing the best he can, but does he have the
    knowledge to do it and do it correctly?
     
  15. oh so the reason the manufacturers instuctions
    Pardon me. I missed the comment about battery load calcs. In the 24 years I
    installed professionally, I did hundreds of my own installations and countless
    more takeovers. With the exception of a few extremely large systems that I did,
    every professional installation in a residence that I ever saw had either a
    single 12 Volt x 4 Amp Hour or 12 Volt x 7 Amp Hour battery. Not one
    professional installer does battery load calcs on residential systems. What I
    did notice was that *most* systems installed by the larger companies and *all*
    systems installed by the so-called "authorized dealers" were underpowered, using
    the smallest, cheapest battery they could find. I've actually found panels with
    1.2 Amp Hour batteries in them.

    So tell me how hiring a professional installer is going to improve on telling
    the customer to use a 7 Amp Hour battery?

    Just to clarify things, if the DIY client happens to have an exceptionally large
    home or the system will have more than a few keypads, I often instruct them to
    get either an extra battery, wired in parallel or an auxiliary power supply.

    --

    Regards,
    Robert L Bass

    Bass Burglar Alarms
    The Online DIY Store
    http://www.BassBurglarAlarms.com
     
  16. So it's not neccessary to understand whether a PIR
    In most residential apps the motion detectors should be installed facing
    diagonally across the protected room. That's why I usually tell people to put
    the detector in a corner facing into the room and not facing windows, etc. That
    way both the microwave and the PIR elements in the dual detector are likely to
    trip from a burglar but not from extraneous stimuli.

    Speaking of dual techs (which I greatly prefer over single tech detectors
    anyway), no it is not necessary to worry about whether the PIR responds to
    tangential motion and the microwave element works best with motion toward or
    away from the detector. Since both elements are installed in the same housing,
    one is always optimized and the other never is. That's not a problem if you use
    a detector that's rated for the room size being covered.
    Nope. Corner locations are often ideal because the detector can cover a larger
    portion of the room. Many detectors cover a 90º angle or close to it. Corner
    locations allow such a detector to cover almost the entire room.
    From the Honeywell web page describing the FG-1625 (one of my favorite glass
    breaks):

    "Mount the Detector Anywhere - Mounts on any wall, in the window frame, or on
    the ceiling, with no minimum range and a maximum range of 25’ (7.6 m) to the
    glass."
    Actually, I sell the tester on the same page as the sensors. The installation
    instructions recommend the tester.

    "9. Testing the Detector - The detector should be tested at least once each
    year. Test the detector with the FG-701 Glassbreak Simulator. The model FG-700
    Glassbreak Simulator can also be used if it is set for the tempered glass sound.
    Other simulators will not give accurate indication of range."

    The detectors come with easy to read instructions about placement, testing, etc.
    For example:

    "2. Choosing Mounting Location - The preferred mounting location for the device
    is on a wall or ceiling, opposite the protected glass. For the best detector
    performance, select a mounting location that is:
    • within 7.6 m (25 feet) of the protected glass;
    • within clear view of the protected glass;
    • at least 2 m (6.5 feet) from the floor;
    • at least 1 m (3.3 feet) from forced air ducts;
    • at least 1 m (3.3 feet) from sirens or bells greater than 5 cm (2 inches) in
    diameter.
    • between the protected glass and any heavy window coverings that may be
    present.

    Alternatively, when heavy window coverings are present, the detector can be
    mounted on the frame of the window.

    Avoid mounting the detector on the same wall as the protected glass, on
    free-standing posts or pillars, or in rooms with noisy equipment (air
    compressors, bells, power tools, etc.), if this equipment is operated when
    the detector is armed."

    The instructions show how easy it is to test a given location before running a
    wire:

    "3. Testing Mounting Location With 9V Battery You may test the detector in the
    desired mounting location before drilling/wiring. If the 9V battery cannot
    supply sufficient power, the detector will not operate and the red and green
    LEDs will flash on/off. Follow the procedure described in “Testing the
    Detector” (next column) to confirm proper operation."

    Perhaps the reason you don't believe that a DIYer can do this is you don't
    expect them to read the instructions. I must admit that it is a good idea to
    read the directions which come with the equipment. Not doing so can lead to
    errors and systems that work as poorly as some of the professionally installed
    systems that my DIYers have had to replace.

    --

    Regards,
    Robert L Bass

    Bass Burglar Alarms
    The Online DIY Store
    http://www.BassBurglarAlarms.com
     
  17. Mark Leuck

    Mark Leuck Guest

    Jim sez dat doin woik

     
  18. Nomen Nescio

    Nomen Nescio Guest

    Bass said:
    I'm a professional installer, and I do battery calculations on residential
    systems. The fact that you use a single 4 amp-hour battery only goes to
    show why you should not be allowed to touch fire alarm systems. Oh wait,
    you don't have a license. You're NOT allowed to touch fire alarm systems.

    NFPA 72, 11.6.2, "Household Fire Alarm Systems," states that "the secondary
    source shall be capable of operating the system for at least 24 hours in
    the normal condition followed by 4 minutes of alarm. Now, please explain
    to us how to determine whether a given system complies with this
    requirement without doing battery calculations.

    Then you can explain to us how even a 7 amp-hour battery provides 24 hours
    of standby on a system with three alphanumeric keypads, a zone expander or
    two, plus several motions and glass breaks. I'm being deliberately vague
    on the equipment list to make a point: you just don't know the answer
    until you do the math for the exact system in question.

    Of course, you'd probably solve this problem with one of those special
    Napco diode battery harnesses.

    - badenov
     

  19. You did not do to good with this battery story

    Battery Diode Harness StoryFrom: (Group Moderator)
    Newsgroups: alt.security.alarms
    Subject: REPOST: Battery Diode Story - GOOFY BASS WRONG AGAIN
    Lines: 89
    NNTP-Posting-Host: ngpost-m2.news.aol.com
    X-Admin:
    Date: 22 May 2002 07:13:17 GMT
    Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
    Message-ID: <>


    REPOSTED FOR THOSE WHO REQUESTED IT:
    This is the guy ROBERT L. (Lunatic) Goofy Bass that his Clones think he is
    so
    knowledgeable about alarms.
    *******************************************************************************

    Battery Diode Story

    Bass Was Totally Wrong - This was taken right from www.google.com
    Subject: Re: Connecting more batteries
    Newsgroups: alt.security.alarms
    Date: 2002-04-08 07:38:27 PST

    > > > >

    I think you've got this one wrong, friend. Napco provided a Battery Diode >
    when > > > > I installed their add-on power supply. In fact, it's still
    listed
    on the > > > > ADI server as a valid part, although AFAIK Napco has stopped
    producing them. > > > > > > > > If you make current flow in the wrong
    direction
    on a battery charging > > > > circuit you'll have a lot more than a dead
    battery to worry about. To test > > > > your theory take a discharged
    battery
    and connect its terminals to another, > > > > fully charged battery with the
    terminals reversed (so you can get current to > > > > "flow back into the
    dead
    battery"). All kidding aside, don't really try > > > > this. The results can
    include fire and explosion, depending on the type of > > > > battery and its
    condition. > > > > > > > > BTW, the charging circuits on many alarms are
    actually 13.8VDC -- not 12 > > > > Volts. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > >
    Robert L Bass > > > > > > > > =============================> > > > > Bass
    Home
    Electronics > > > > The Online DIY Alarm Store > > > >
    http://www.Bass-Home.comSales & Tech Support > > > > 941-925-9747 Fax > > > >
    >
    This is the CORRECT answer
    Again taken from www.google.com

    > > > Sorry, Robert,
    but it looks like you have this one wrong on two counts > > > and Nomen
    Nescio
    is right on the money. Like you, I have also done > > > countless
    multiple-battery MA3000 commercial fire and burg installs > > > over the
    years.optional PS3000 power supply, but do need to supervise for AC > > >
    brownout.
    This module connects the PS3000 jack to the AUX relay, which > > > is
    triggered
    upon brownout. > > > > > > Secondly, the Dual Battery Harness, to which I
    believe you were > > > referring in your post, does not have a diode in it
    at
    all, it simply > > > parallels the battery leads to allow the connection of
    2
    or more > > > batteries to the MA3000, or any other panel. > > > > > > I do
    not
    think UL would require a diode in the battery harness that > > > would waste
    a
    valuable 0.7 VDC in a low battery condition just to > > > protect against
    the
    installer reversing the battery leads > > > accidentally. There is already a
    thermal circuit breaker on the board > > > for this type of protection. > >two directions, you will soon have a very dead battery. > > > > > > Best
    Regards, Oleg

    HERE NORMAN PROVES GOOFY ASS WRONG ALSO

    Nomen Nescio wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Better not use a diode to isolate
    the
    two batteries. Remember, current has > > > > > to flow both directions on a
    battery lead: into the battery when it's > > > > > charging, and out of the
    battery when it's discharging. So if you orient > > > > > the anode towards
    the
    charging terminal and the cathode towards the > > > > > battery, the battery
    will charge but will not be able to deliver power to > > > > > the system
    when
    the AC is off. If you orient the diode the other > > > > > direction, the
    battery will not charge. > > > > > > > > > > Diodes also have a 0.6 volt
    drop
    across them, so if you charge a battery > > > > > through a diode, you are
    not
    getting the full charging voltage. > > > > > > > > > > Use a fuse or circuit
    breaker instead, preferably the harness provided by > > > > > the panel
    manufacturer.

    SO those who want to take Goofy Bass's advise because you think he knows
    every
    thing -THINK TWICE.

    Mike, Sr.
    Alarm Services Inc.(NJ)
    Group Moderator
    http://www.AlarmServicesInc.Com

    Visit The Goofy Bass Website
    http://www.goofysplace.com/
     
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