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The weird electronics of Apollo

PASCAL

Jul 5, 2011
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Please, will you check this:

http://www.angelfire.com/moon2/xpascal/MoonHoax/ApolloSystems/ApolloSystems.HTM

This is all the study I have led on the electronic interfaces which are in the official documentations of the NASA (I give links to these documents).
The electronic interfaces are really weird; if you look at them from far, or with uninformed eyes, they could look normal, but, if you look at them attentively, and have some knowledge of electronics, you can see they are full of aberrations, and that these aberrations are very obviously all intentional.
It's very clear to me that the NASA and MIT engineers sabotaged the project because they have been forced to do something against their conscience.


Incredible aberrations ccan also be found in the onboard computer of the LM and the CM:

http://www.angelfire.com/moon2/xpascal/MoonHoax/AGC/AGC.HTM


I have started to get interested into the technical documentations because I have seen an incredible number of incoherencies in the photos of the missions, and I have quickly seen that these incoherencies were all intentional, absolutely not accidental, and sometimes made with much imagination.

http://www.angelfire.com/moon2/xpascal/MoonHoax/MainPage.HTM

They have been playing with perspective, the theory of shadows, the properties of the photographer's shadow (that I explain in my introduction) to create the incoherencies.
Very often, it is clearly visible they have moved objects to create incoherencies.
The videos show some really weird things.
The flight of the LM in space makes no sense either: they say it reaches the altitude of a boeing before starting to brake, but a boeing is a big airliner flying in earth atmosphere, benefitting of the two air forces (horizontal and vertical) and with a speed which is relatively moderate compartively with the initial speed of the LM.
They represent on a schema the CM at an altitude which is the same as the moon's radius when it fact it was 16 times smaller (and which makes that the trajectory they show is completely wrong, it turns too much around the moon), they make the CM turn in the opposite direction of the moon's rotation, which makes that the speed of the moon's rotation adds to the orbiting speed of the CM instead of subtracting, and it's the interest of the LM to have a horizontal speed as small as possible relatively to the moon, because it will have to nullify it before it reaches the moon.

I have made plenty of videos on youtube to express my doubts.
I don't say I never made errors, I have made some, but it's only a minority; the vast majority of my points are correct and prove the NASA and MIT engineers clearly sabotaged the Apollo project; they would never have done it if it had been real.
That made me a moon hoaxer, a moon hoaxer by reason, and not because, like some think, I would hate America (I love America, but the real honest one, not the one which is dishonest and cheats).

I just think that America was not ready in the sixties to send a spaceship to the moon (and neither were the Russians of course), and that, even today, we still couldn't do it.
The NASA never really tested the LM (the tests which have been made with a light structure are ridiculous, abd have absolutely nothing to do with the real conditions the LM had to be used), and the NASA has made no real test on the radiations in space; a monkey was sent to space two months before Apollo 11, and he came back dead; the Apollo believers claim that it is for other reasons than radiations that he died, but they have no proof of it.
The moon can bounce back a laser beam without the help of retroreflector, tests had already been made before Apollo which proved it was possible.
And lunar meteorites can be found in antarctica which have the same properties as the rocks which would have been brought back by the astronauts (and Von Braun made a trip to antarctica two years before Apollo 11); furthermore, only a little minority of these rocks have been analyzed, so the other ones can perfectly be fake; people will believe the other ones are also genuine because those who have been analyzed show to be genuine.
And there were two communuication lines at the NASA center of operations; one with the saturn rocket, that is a true one, and one for the lunar mission, i.e. a fake one, controlled by different people; it was not necessary to have two different communication lines, one would have been enough if the mission had been authentic from A to Z.

I am convinced that the CIA orchestrated a big scam, probably to divert the american people from the Vietnam war (and also may be to get funds for it that the Americans would not have been so ready to pay for, like they were accepting for the dreamy lunar missions, for the americans were starting to get tired of this war).
This is my conviction; of course, I have made speculations, I don't have proof of everything I assert, but the incoherencies I have seen are not speculation, they are absolute certitude, and the fact that they are intentional is also absolute certitude; and this certitude is totally coherent with my speculations.
Now, you judge!
Am I a stupid moon hoaxer, or am I one who has reasons for having doubts?
 

(*steve*)

¡sǝpodᴉʇuɐ ǝɥʇ ɹɐǝɥd
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Am I a stupid moon hoaxer

That would be my first guess.

How thorough is your knowledge of RF design in particular. I find that some of your statements appear nonsensical, but RF is not my forte.

For example you have some complaints about the use of phase to maintain ranging information when this is the method used in GPS to get very high accuracy (for example) so it doesn't appear too silly to me.

Another example is your contention that modulating a carrier with several signals is unrecoverable seems to make things like stereo FM radio impossible.

I haven't looked at your photographs, but most that I've seen which deal with shadows are explained by the field of view of the lens or an uneven surface. (And this is an area where I am actually quite skilled.)

But I'm more interested in your electronics related issues as they're reasonably on-topic.
 

(*steve*)

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OK, your moon pictures faked page has a short clip being shown. I presume you're worried about how the astronaut who moves in front of part of the lander appears "transparent" (although you don't say).

This is a perfectly natural effect, and one you can demonstrate with your own eye.

Stare at a (lit) lightbulb for a few seconds then look at a wall. There will appear to be a dark shadow on the wall.

The same thing happens in the camera.
 

PASCAL

Jul 5, 2011
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That would be my first guess.

How thorough is your knowledge of RF design in particular. I find that some of your statements appear nonsensical, but RF is not my forte.

For example you have some complaints about the use of phase to maintain ranging information when this is the method used in GPS to get very high accuracy (for example) so it doesn't appear too silly to me.

Another example is your contention that modulating a carrier with several signals is unrecoverable seems to make things like stereo FM radio impossible.

I haven't looked at your photographs, but most that I've seen which deal with shadows are explained by the field of view of the lens or an uneven surface. (And this is an area where I am actually quite skilled.)

But I'm more interested in your electronics related issues as they're reasonably on-topic.


It is very different from the GPS technique.
In fact it starts from normal things, but then they introduce an incoherency which makes that it becomes abnormal; I describe why it is abnormal.
One of the most delirious things they describe is the analog to digital converter.

Anything which concerns shadows is not necessarily abnormal, but there are things which are abnormal.
In fact, I don't use the usual arguments if moon hoaxers, I even reject some.
But I have other arguments which are more difficult to debunk.
If you take the time to look at all I have found out (and not just stop the first time that you disagree) you may see that there are arguments which are not so silly!
 

(*steve*)

¡sǝpodᴉʇuɐ ǝɥʇ ɹɐǝɥd
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Well, I pointed out something in that video which is as I expected. Can you tell me what there is in that video you think is unexpected.

I'm certainly not going to describe everything. You tell me what is wrong.
 

PASCAL

Jul 5, 2011
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Well, I pointed out something in that video which is as I expected. Can you tell me what there is in that video you think is unexpected.

I'm certainly not going to describe everything. You tell me what is wrong.

Well, I posted only things which are wrong.
The weirdest thing is certainly the analog to digital converter I describe in the DATA subsystem; this one is absolutely delirious
 

(*steve*)

¡sǝpodᴉʇuɐ ǝɥʇ ɹɐǝɥd
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Well, I posted only things which are wrong.

I expect you are quite accurate in that statement.

However you did post a link to a page showing a short video. I want to concentrate on that because it is where my knowledge of photography and electronics allow me to make statements that I am comfortable are well backed up.

If you are willing to say there's nothing wrong in that video, then so be it. But why else would it be on your page?


The weirdest thing is certainly the analog to digital converter I describe in the DATA subsystem; this one is absolutely delirious

Well, I'm sure between me, you, and that circuit, at least one of us is.

Perhaps you can tell us a bit about your formal qualifications in these areas. It will help us in knowing how best to form a reply.

There are, for instance a number of errors on your page. And I'm only looking quickly for a few of the worst.

Low frequency signals can't propagate all alone though space

This is news to me.

You'll say that the carrier which is obtained on the second coil is still a HF signal which is unfit for being listened to, but this carrier can easily be eliminated by a low-pass filter which lets only pass the low frequency signal which may then be listened to, after appropriate amplification.

I wonder if you need either a detector or maybe a mixer as well? I wonder why there is a diode in a crystal radio?

Indeed, knowing the length wave of the signal, it is possible to know at what speed the signal propagates, and thence to convert the travel time of the signal into a distance.

This sounds like you are suggesting that the speed of the signal varies.

And then we get to stuff that you just seem to misunderstand:

On this schema, we can see that there are signals which use a carrier of the same frequency (for example, the LM transmits voice backup and data on carriers of the same frequency -259.7mc-, and the earth transmits voice/backup and voice/prn on carriers of the same frequency -2101.8mc).

My only response is "So?" I have no problems with multiple data streams on a single carrier. They could be multiplexed, or using different subcarriers, or even different signal polarizations.

I take it you've never listened to Stereo FM, or watched colour television?

I have already explained that the carriers must use different frequencies, so that the signals which modulate them can be separated.

No, you explained (poorly and inadequately) how separate transmitters may cause interference if on the same (or very close) frequencies.

They say that the PCM data can be transmitted to earth on a high bit rate (51.2kb/sec) or a low bit rate (1.6kb/sec).
The PCM data can also be transmitted to the CSM via the 259.7mc carrier but only at the low bit rate!
Why, since this frequency would also allow to carry the high bit rate?

Without you defining most of the TLA's you make it hard to look it up, but there could be many reasons.

* The transmitter may be lower in power
* There may be insufficient bandwidth available (possibly due to other signals being carried)
* The antenna may be lower in gain (at either end)
* If it's a backup, maybe it goes through a modulator meant for another purpose.

They say that the transponder receives on a frequency of 2101.8mc and retransmits on a frequency of 2282.6mc.
But in fact a transponder retransmits a signal on the same frequency it receives it; it doesn't change its frequency.

That may be true for a RADAR transponder that you've mentioned earlier, but generically a transponder only needs to respond to a transmission. Nothing in the definition says it must be on the same frequency. There may be very good reasons to respond on another frequency.

To answer some of your other questions I would need to refer back to the original documentation, and I have far more important things to do at present (like eating). This is especially true considering my impression of the quality of your preceding work.
 

PASCAL

Jul 5, 2011
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I expect you are quite accurate in that statement.

However you did post a link to a page showing a short video. I want to concentrate on that because it is where my knowledge of photography and electronics allow me to make statements that I am comfortable are well backed up.

If you are willing to say there's nothing wrong in that video, then so be it. But why else would it be on your page?




Well, I'm sure between me, you, and that circuit, at least one of us is.

Perhaps you can tell us a bit about your formal qualifications in these areas. It will help us in knowing how best to form a reply.

There are, for instance a number of errors on your page. And I'm only looking quickly for a few of the worst.



This is news to me.



I wonder if you need either a detector or maybe a mixer as well? I wonder why there is a diode in a crystal radio?



This sounds like you are suggesting that the speed of the signal varies.

And then we get to stuff that you just seem to misunderstand:



My only response is "So?" I have no problems with multiple data streams on a single carrier. They could be multiplexed, or using different subcarriers, or even different signal polarizations.

I take it you've never listened to Stereo FM, or watched colour television?



No, you explained (poorly and inadequately) how separate transmitters may cause interference if on the same (or very close) frequencies.



Without you defining most of the TLA's you make it hard to look it up, but there could be many reasons.

* The transmitter may be lower in power
* There may be insufficient bandwidth available (possibly due to other signals being carried)
* The antenna may be lower in gain (at either end)
* If it's a backup, maybe it goes through a modulator meant for another purpose.



That may be true for a RADAR transponder that you've mentioned earlier, but generically a transponder only needs to respond to a transmission. Nothing in the definition says it must be on the same frequency. There may be very good reasons to respond on another frequency.

To answer some of your other questions I would need to refer back to the original documentation, and I have far more important things to do at present (like eating). This is especially true considering my impression of the quality of your preceding work.


A radar transponder must not change the frequency of the signal, otherwise the transmitter who sent the ranging data will not be able to use the returning signal.
if the radar transponder multiplies the frequency of the ranging data, it poses a real problem: Even if the transmitter of the signal redivides the returned signal (to compare it with the sent signal, and measure the time between the sent signal and the returned signal), if ever it loses a part of the signal, then the partial loss of ranging data pulses will mean that the reconstituted ranging data (after division of the returned signal) will be shifted in an unknown way and therefore the measure of the difference between the returned signal and the sent signal will be corrupted; in case that the frequency of the returned signal is not changed, it is possible to resynchronize even in the case of the temporary loss of the signal.
It makes still less sense if the transponder, instead of returning the ranging data it receives, returns instead a signal it has locally fabricated and which has nothing to do with the sent signal, which is completely uncorrelated from it: the radar which sent the radar signal will then be unable to use this returned signal which is completly independent from what it sent and with which it can make no correlation and make no measurement by difference of signals; and this type of case happens several times in what they describe.
in several circuits they describe, there are missing parts that I describe.
There are also many completely useless redundancies.
Concerning the analog to digital circuit, it is a circuit I know well for I have worked on a hybrid computer; a hybrid computer is an analog calculator (i.e. working with operational amplifiers which have remarkable properties, and which were much used to control and simulate the flight of planes when microcomputers were still not existing) coupled with a digital calculator; since one has analog informations and the other one digital informations, they exchange informations through converters: analog to digital converters from the analog calculator to the digital calculator, and digital to analog converters in the converse direction; so I was interested by how they described the analog to digital converter, because I know how it works (I describe it in my document); and the one they describe is absolutely delirious, no way that it can work, it converts nothing, what it outputs is continuously changing even if the analog input is constant.
It would be too long to describe all the anomalies here.
You may not believe me, but I know I'm saying the truth.
And concerning my background, I am a national aerospace engineer, I have studied the flight of planes of course, but also automatic, electronics, radars, and many other disciplines.
In the seventies I have made many electronic interfaces, the texas digital handbook was my bible, I was knowing a good part of its digital circuits by heart.

Now you may think that I'm just an incompetent and ignorant idiot who is inventing everything he says.
If it is the way you consider me, and that I deserve the same attention which is given to any idiot, that is none, then I'll say that it is your total right, but in that case I guess that I don't have my place on this site.
 

(*steve*)

¡sǝpodᴉʇuɐ ǝɥʇ ɹɐǝɥd
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Now you may think that I'm just an incompetent and ignorant idiot who is inventing everything he says.

No, but I do consider you someone who is avoiding answering questions or facing up to obvious shortcomings that have been pointed out. In that respect you are not alone. It is something that categorises most people who try to defend a position that is unsupported by facts.

You harp on about the transponder changing the frequency when I pointed out that changing the frequency is perfectly acceptable. It is unusual in RADAR, but that is a specific type of transponder where primary and secondary returns are received by the same system (mostly for reasons of economy). Pretty much nothing in space travel is done for reasons of economy.

And concerning my background, I am a national aerospace engineer, I have studied the flight of planes of course, but also automatic, electronics, radars, and many other disciplines.
In the seventies I have made many electronic interfaces, the texas digital handbook was my bible, I was knowing a good part of its digital circuits by heart.

Well perhaps English isn't your first language. Perhaps that is why your technical terms are so often mangled?

Perhaps you can address my criticisms of your web page first. You seem to be avoiding that as hard as you can.

I'll do you a favour and try to find where the a-d stuff is.
 

PASCAL

Jul 5, 2011
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No, but I do consider you someone who is avoiding answering questions or facing up to obvious shortcomings that have been pointed out. In that respect you are not alone. It is something that categorises most people who try to defend a position that is unsupported by facts.

You harp on about the transponder changing the frequency when I pointed out that changing the frequency is perfectly acceptable. It is unusual in RADAR, but that is a specific type of transponder where primary and secondary returns are received by the same system (mostly for reasons of economy). Pretty much nothing in space travel is done for reasons of economy.



Well perhaps English isn't your first language. Perhaps that is why your technical terms are so often mangled?

Perhaps you can address my criticisms of your web page first. You seem to be avoiding that as hard as you can.


I'll do you a favour and try to find where the a-d stuff is.


On English not being my first language, you are totally right, since I am french!
 

(*steve*)

¡sǝpodᴉʇuɐ ǝɥʇ ɹɐǝɥd
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OK, I've looked. Some obvious errors in your analysis:

1) it is a "simplified block diagram", not a circuit diagram, so there's bound to be some details hidden from you.

2) you misidentify a series of OR gates as AND gates.

The latter especially casts doubt on any conclusions you may have come to.

Frankly I think you've misidentified other blocks too. Unfortunately I don't have the time or bandwidth at present to download the LM manual and search through it to find what you're referring to.

I've had a look at a number of the photos on your Apollo 11 page and frankly I can tell you're not a photographer, and you've certainly never developed or printed colour film.

You show a lack of understanding of the difference between SBR and FAR especially in conditions of underexposure. This ignores the further losses when an image is printed.

I imagine you've never worked with large reflectors, or wide angle lenses.

There's a few things I can't explain, but there's a few things that I can't even see that you're making a song and dance about. There are some images with an obvious shadow that you say is missing.

Your garbage can and stairs photo is a perfect example of you setting up what you think happened, not figuring out if there is a way to innocently reproduce what you have seen. I would suggest that if you use a wide angle lens, and move so that the placement of the bin remains similar in the frame, but the stairs are not, you'll be able to reproduce the Apollo image's apparent (to you at least) shortcoming.

Another pair of photos (incidentally, a lot of your images are missing) shows an astronaut entering the LM. You have a problem with a panel that appears to be reflecting the lunar surface from one view, but not from another. The position of the camera has clearly changed, so the reflection would be coming from somewhere else, and plausibly it is not not reflecting the surface. Secondly, you miss the large amount of flare in the second photo which acts to reduce contrast. That is a very good reason for something to appear to be better lit than in the former image. You show an animation of the 2 photographs which only serve to reinforce that there is a change of position (rotation around the LM) and also either a change in distance from the LM or a zooming of the lens -- I would tend to suggest the former. It even makes it more obvious that the upper triangular window has a reflection changing from part of the lunar surface to part of the LM, and that the lower reflection is actually in evidence in the other photo.

Your whole thing about descending the ladder is great conspiracy material. You assert that he has the wrong foot on a rung of the ladder. Who says that he didn't at some point have both feet on a single rung? This is especially likely on the lowest rung before he prepares for the somewhat larger step to the surface.

In another set of photographs you assert that a reflection moved the wrong way, explaining it should have moved the other way, then you say it shouldn't have moved at all. If you can't decide whether it should have moved at al then I can hardly take you word that it moved the wrong way. Looking closely at the area around the reflection I can see strong evidence of rotation in the correct direction. In the first photo you see part of the end of the strut, in the second you don't since the end face has rotated away from you. If it had rotated the way you describe more would be visible.

In the "saluting the flag"/leg shaddow photos, it is clear to me from the position of his left foot and right heel that he has rotated his upper body slightly. His feet remain in almost identical positions. This the shadows from hid lower legs are very similar. Also you say the shadows are really unusual but that the surface could explain it. Well then, I guess the surface DOES explain it then. You say it has to be very unusual (I see a small depression and a slight lump in the surface, I guess you need to show that such a surface feature did not exist)

In another set of photos you express amazement that an area is shaded on both sides. Perhaps you should consider that one photo is taken using the reflected light and the other with transmitted light. The area in shade will appear darker in both. The only way it could not would be if you moved the light source (the sun) or rotated the flag.

You claim further on that there is a photo where the shadow of the pole of the flag brutally stops, however I see parts of the shadow from the base of the pole to the shadow of the flag itself. All it indicates to me is that the surface is clearly uneven. It also suggests that a longer focal length is in use.

And it goes on and on.
 

(*steve*)

¡sǝpodᴉʇuɐ ǝɥʇ ɹɐǝɥd
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On English not being my first language, you are totally right, since I am french!

And again you fail to address the points raised.

Clearly you are not prepared to answer any criticism.
 

PASCAL

Jul 5, 2011
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I know it is a simplified diagram, and I have taken it into account, but it does not explain the errors I have seen.
 

TBennettcc

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Stop while you're ahead, Steve. I'm sure you have better things to do than bang your head against the wall. I've seen in someone's signature here, something to the effect of: When people ask you for your advice, they're usually looking for corroboration. Misery loves company?
 

davenn

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Stop while you're ahead, Steve. I'm sure you have better things to do than bang your head against the wall. I've seen in someone's signature here, something to the effect of: When people ask you for your advice, they're usually looking for corroboration. Misery loves company?

hahahaha I second that motion, mate he doesnt want to answer any of your comments directly. He obviously isnt open to any constructive critism. And if he does indeed do the type of work that he says he does then god help those industeries as he has a total lack of understanding of basic RF principals relating to standard radio communications. let alone any reasonable understanding of electronics.

A few times over the years I have seen posts like this, on various forums, from so called educated people that in the first few lines of their opening statements show that they have no basic conceptual understanding what-so-ever.

reading some of the OP's statements is like watching back to the future or some other SciFi, its just line after line of nonsense with no basis in real world facts.

They are so locked into their worlds full of conspiracy they they refuse to acknowledge real information presented to them, the laws of physics etc etc

call it quites steve and lock the thread ;)

cheers
Dave
 
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