Maker Pro
Maker Pro

The visible part of light

W

William P.N. Smith

Jan 1, 1970
0
Mary Fisher said:
Now, how does one know the colour temperature before one pays for a product?

It should be written on the box or printed on the bulb.
'Daylight' seems to be the only variant we can get here (UK) and they're
VERY expensive.

That's the old "you get what you pay for" thing, isn't it? You'll
need to go to a decent lighting store, and see if they have a display
of CF bulbs in various color temperatures or CR ratings and see which
one you personally like. I'm partial yo daylight myself, though they
are expensive...
 
W

William P.N. Smith

Jan 1, 1970
0
Mary Fisher said:
You call eating work???

Mary, don't waste your time arguing with George, just killfile him and
get on with your life.
 
G

George Ghio

Jan 1, 1970
0
Mary said:
You call eating work???

Goodness no. But if you are sitting at the table to do something then it
is a work station. Even if you are enjoying yourself.
Sewing isn't work either, for me. I do it for pleasure.

Fair enough. I do a lot of sewing myself. Still a workstation.

So do we. The reading lights are central on the bed head pointing left
and right so as not to disturb the other person in bed if they want to
sleep.
There are both in the bathROOM. And we read in the bath.

Filthy habit, but totally relaxing;)
LOL! Don't think that we haven't considered lighting, we have. That's why we
decided to keep the central overhead lighting as well as having spot
lighting where it's needed. But our house isn't a series of workstations!

But it is. Whether for work or enjoyment. Anywhere you do something it
can be considered a work station
 
M

Mary Fisher

Jan 1, 1970
0
William P.N. Smith said:
It should be written on the box or printed on the bulb.


That's the old "you get what you pay for" thing, isn't it?

In a way, yes. But tungsten bulbs (yes I KNOW their light is nothing like
'natural' light) didn't/don't have such an unpleasant effect on a room's
contents and they're not expensive.
You'll
need to go to a decent lighting store, and see if they have a display
of CF bulbs in various color temperatures or CR ratings and see which
one you personally like. I'm partial yo daylight myself, though they
are expensive...

I intend buying some when our others die, probably for the smallest room
initially. It might produce too big a culture shock :)

Mary
 
M

Mary Fisher

Jan 1, 1970
0
William P.N. Smith said:
Mary, don't waste your time arguing with George, just killfile him and
get on with your life.

I'm not arguing, exactly, I just can't understand what he's saying. That's
either because I'm thick or because he's not making sense ... :)

Mary
 
Y

You

Jan 1, 1970
0
Mary Fisher said:
I'm not arguing, exactly, I just can't understand what he's saying. That's
either because I'm thick or because he's not making sense ... :)

Mary

George RARELY makes sense, and I haven't noticed that your posts are
THICK.......
 
V

Vaughn Simon

Jan 1, 1970
0
Mary Fisher said:
In a way, yes. But tungsten bulbs (yes I KNOW their light is nothing like
'natural' light) didn't/don't have such an unpleasant effect on a room's
contents and they're not expensive.

Not expensive to BUY, but terribly expensive if you actually want to use
them. If you use them in an air-conditioned space, then you pay twice; once for
the waste heat, and then again to pump that same heat out of your house. (The
other side of that story is that there is usually no such thing as waste heat
inside your house in the winter)

Vaughn
 
M

Mary Fisher

Jan 1, 1970
0
Vaughn Simon said:
Not expensive to BUY, but terribly expensive if you actually want to
use them.

Yes, I realise that. We don't use them any more but the light of the long
life ones is so ugly :-(
If you use them in an air-conditioned space, then you pay twice; once for
the waste heat, and then again to pump that same heat out of your house.

Not here :)
(The other side of that story is that there is usually no such thing as
waste heat inside your house in the winter)

Quite, and it's mostly only in winter when we use lights.
 
G

George Ghio

Jan 1, 1970
0
Mary said:
I'm not arguing, exactly, I just can't understand what he's saying. That's
either because I'm thick or because he's not making sense ... :)

Mary
Thick is being like poor willy.

You have only provided a view on lighting. Your view is dictated by
having a house that has existing lighting that you have to work around.

I have provided a view on lighting that was dictated by building a house
which allowed me to customise my lighting.

Neither view is inherently right or wrong.

So what don't you understand?
 
M

Mary Fisher

Jan 1, 1970
0
Tony Wesley said:
Very true, altho' I'd add the caveat about waste heat in the winter
that electric heat is usually an expensive way to get heat.

That's why we don't use it ...

Mary
 
M

Mary Fisher

Jan 1, 1970
0
Solar Flair said:
Mary.

Just killfile Billy boy (name du jour) he is a huge Usenet troll and
terorist that continually shift names and providers for different
strategies.

Make your own choice and don't fall prey to the hanging jury.

All the best.

Look, I'm sure you mean well but I deal with posters in my own way. My
killfile is restricted to posters who are actually offensive and who use
innappropriate language. It's surprisingly full ... :)

For all others I've found that silence is the best put-down. If the last
word is so important to them they can have it :)

Thanks for the heads-up anyway,

Mary
 
D

Derek Broughton

Jan 1, 1970
0
Solar said:
Just killfile Billy boy (name du jour) he is a huge Usenet troll and
terorist that continually shift names and providers for different
strategies.

Precious. "Billy boy" posts under his own name afaik. You, otoh, don't.
<plonk>
 
W

William P.N. Smith

Jan 1, 1970
0
George Ghio said:
So what don't you understand?

Why you keep changing your alias in order to avoid killfiles. Do we
have to go ask your ISP to tell you to cut it out again?

<Plonk> again
 
G

George Ghio

Jan 1, 1970
0
William said:
Why you keep changing your alias in order to avoid killfiles. Do we
have to go ask your ISP to tell you to cut it out again?

<Plonk> again

I have no alias.

I have only ever posted under my own name.

I don't care who kill files me just because they can't take the heat.

I have never been in trouble with my ISP.

Poor willie is just another sad amateur playing with solar.
 
Y

You

Jan 1, 1970
0
Solar Flair said:
Mary.

Just killfile Billy boy (name du jour) he is a huge Usenet troll and
terorist that continually shift names and providers for different
strategies.

Make your own choice and don't fall prey to the hanging jury.

All the best.



Pot .... Kettle .... Black......
 
D

daestrom

Jan 1, 1970
0
Mary Fisher said:
I'm not arguing, exactly, I just can't understand what he's saying. That's
either because I'm thick or because he's not making sense ... :)

Mary

I think, in part, you misunderstand George's use of the term 'workstation'.

He doesn't mean, "those places where you work" exactly, he means more "the
places you're at when you need light to do something."

In that sense, a 'workstation' could be a reading lamp next to your sewing
chair that just sheds enough light for you to see what you're doing.
Similarly, most people like some sort of lighting around the kitchen table
when they eat dinner rather than sit in the dark. Or a light that just
shines on the counter-top where you prepare dinner. But not general
lighting up the whole room.

George is advocating to just use small 'spot lighting' to light up just the
immediate area around what you're doing, not the whole room. Reflectors
behind bulbs or focused bulbs/LED can provide a bright work area without
sending a lot of light off in directions where you don't need it.

But I've tried that sort of lighting myself and don't like it. Whenever I
look up from my work, my eyes have to adjust from the bright lighting on my
desk/work-bench/table to the much darker room and surroundings. Then when I
go look back at my work, my eyes have to adjust again. Makes for some
eye-strain and the pupils keep adjusting back/forth for light/dark as you
glance around your area looking for things.

Kind of like watching TV in a dark room.

daestrom
 
M

Mary Fisher

Jan 1, 1970
0
daestrom said:
I think, in part, you misunderstand George's use of the term
'workstation'.

He doesn't mean, "those places where you work" exactly, he means more "the
places you're at when you need light to do something."

If that's so why didn't he say it. Note no question mark.
In that sense, a 'workstation' could be a reading lamp next to your sewing
chair that just sheds enough light for you to see what you're doing.
Similarly, most people like some sort of lighting around the kitchen table
when they eat dinner rather than sit in the dark.

We eat in the dining room ... if it's dark we light candles more often than
not. There's an argument for overhead general lighting in some
circumstances, such as when there are small children (we have a lot of
grandchildren).
Or a light that just shines on the counter-top where you prepare dinner.
But not general lighting up the whole room.

In a small kitchen like mine the overhead light which DOES light the whole
room is more than adequate for the counter. We have a special one over the
sink so that we're not standing in our own light at night. In any case, when
one's preparing a meal - or baking or whatever - one doesn't stay in one
place, it's necessary to move round the room.
George is advocating to just use small 'spot lighting' to light up just
the immediate area around what you're doing, not the whole room.
Reflectors behind bulbs or focused bulbs/LED can provide a bright work
area without sending a lot of light off in directions where you don't need
it.

There are disadvantages. For instance, my 'sewing chair' (which is just my
normal easy chair where I do anything I'm doing in the sitting room) is
diagonally opposite the door. If I use its light when it's dark then turn it
off I can't see to get to the door. If I leave it on to get to the overhead
lightswitch next to the door I have to return to turn off the little lamp.
For most sewing the overhead light is more than adequate but I mostly sew
during the day anyway and the window is behind me.

I sew by hand, Spouse by machine. His machine has a light immediately over
the needle bed, during hours of darkness he also uses the overhead room
light because he's moving round the room from time to time.
But I've tried that sort of lighting myself and don't like it.
Ah!

Whenever I look up from my work, my eyes have to adjust from the bright
lighting on my desk/work-bench/table to the much darker room and
surroundings. Then when I go look back at my work, my eyes have to adjust
again. Makes for some eye-strain and the pupils keep adjusting back/forth
for light/dark as you glance around your area looking for things.

Quite. And as you age it gets more difficult to accommodate quickly.
Kind of like watching TV in a dark room.

No TV here but I know what you mean. that's why I have an overhead light
above my pc for when I use it after sundown.

I believe that there's no ideal system which will suit every circumstance
and every individual. To scorn one type of lighting just because it's not
right for the person who scorns it shows a lack of understanding of that
principle.

Mary
 
G

George Ghio

Jan 1, 1970
0
Mary said:
If that's so why didn't he say it. Note no question mark.

See post 16/7/06 11:49pm

But it is. Whether for work or enjoyment. Anywhere you do something it
can be considered a work station.
We eat in the dining room ... if it's dark we light candles more often than
not. There's an argument for overhead general lighting in some
circumstances, such as when there are small children (we have a lot of
grandchildren).

General lighting.

4/7/06 7:58pm

Part of what you are missing is light placement. My house has 56
separate lamps. 26 of which are LED lamps.

The highest wattage lamp is 1 - 20 Watt lamp.

All the other incandescent lamps are either ten Watt or five Watt lamps.

The led lamps are used for either reading lamps of back ground lighting.

All lamps are 12 volt.

Placement is everything. The old standard of a 60 or 100 watt lamp in
the middle of the ceiling is dead as far as my usage is concerned.
In a small kitchen like mine the overhead light which DOES light the whole
room is more than adequate for the counter. We have a special one over the
sink so that we're not standing in our own light at night. In any case, when
one's preparing a meal - or baking or whatever - one doesn't stay in one
place, it's necessary to move round the room.

Actually George is advocating the use of more lamps with a smaller
overall wattage for general lighting.
There are disadvantages. For instance, my 'sewing chair' (which is just my
normal easy chair where I do anything I'm doing in the sitting room) is
diagonally opposite the door. If I use its light when it's dark then turn it
off I can't see to get to the door. If I leave it on to get to the overhead
lightswitch next to the door I have to return to turn off the little lamp.
For most sewing the overhead light is more than adequate but I mostly sew
during the day anyway and the window is behind me.

I sew by hand, Spouse by machine. His machine has a light immediately over
the needle bed, during hours of darkness he also uses the overhead room
light because he's moving round the room from time to time.

Quite. And as you age it gets more difficult to accommodate quickly.

No TV here but I know what you mean. that's why I have an overhead light
above my pc for when I use it after sundown.

I believe that there's no ideal system which will suit every circumstance
and every individual. To scorn one type of lighting just because it's not
right for the person who scorns it shows a lack of understanding of that
principle.

7/7/06 9:26 AM


You have only provided a view on lighting. Your view is dictated by
having a house that has existing lighting that you have to work around.

I have provided a view on lighting that was dictated by building a house
which allowed me to customise my lighting.

Neither view is inherently right or wrong.

So what don't you understand?
 
M

Mary Fisher

Jan 1, 1970
0
Solar Flare said:
I use general lighting in my kitchen and spot counter lighting with motion
detectors for work intensive zones. It works very well anytime of the day.

I find those sewing machine lights terrible as I get older because of the
effect Daestrom mentioned. Some general lighting needs to be applied due
to glare problems. Now if I only ever sew dark material it may be
different.

Yes, there's daylight during the day and the overhead light at night. He
does find the needlebed light a boon because he's older and his eyesight not
as good as it was once. When he's sewing difficult or complicated parts he'd
be hampered without it, an external spot wouldn't be as convenient, another
bit of kit to get in the way of the fabric. At the moment he's sewing canvas
for tenting and need a very clear large workspace.

What's more, the needlebed light uses very little power and is only on when
the machine is on. It's good design.

Mary
 
Top