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the red wave form

Discussion in 'Electronic Design' started by Jon, Jan 26, 2013.

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  1. Jon

    Jon Guest

    I had trouble creating this waveform mathematically. Notice that -1 <=
    sin(z) <=1 so z has to take on values at least up to pi/2 to 3pi/2, which is
    violated by the equation. I only used it since it was the only thing that

    Also I'm not sure how to design the electronics to create the red wave
    (resultant). Right now I'm using two 555 timers. The wave is going to be
    an audio signal. (the red wave in the gif image above).

    The two female vocalists in the band ABBA have synchronized vibratos, making
    their singing particularly pleasing. Also in the band Heart in the song
    "Music Man" towards the end of the song the synthesizer goes into a warbly
    oscillation. I don't like the sound of it but if I can duplicate it with a
    different frequency it might sound better.
  2. Jasen Betts

    Jasen Betts Guest

    If you want ot hear it, compute it, convert it to WAV, and play
    it on your computer.
  3. Tim Williams

    Tim Williams Guest

    Everything's consciously controlled, to some small extent. By
    concentrating, I can reduce my heart rate. Sometimes. I think. There's
    a few people with the proven ability to do things like control heart rate
    (up and down?), basal metabolic rate (let's go sleep on Mt. Everest
    without a shirt on!) and probably more.

  4. Martin Brown

    Martin Brown Guest

    I think you need to do a lot more homework into what vibrato is first.

    The waveform you have drawn will just sound mildly annoying.

    BTW I think you might actually be able to program the signal generator
    function in the latest DAQARTA to do something like what you want with
    no soldering necessary. It's spectrum analyser function will certainly
    help you understand the properties of musical waveforms better.
    A 555 will only ever output a square wave from pin 3 or a triangle wave
    off the capacitor if you buffer it appropriately. You want a pure sine
    wave in an ideal world to match the graph you have shown.

    Vibrato is actually a combination of mostly frequency with some small
    amount of amplitude modulation of a higher frequency carrier wave.

    On a violin for example the vibrato would be around 5-20Hz whereas
    orchestral A is 440Hz. Not sure about singers voices.

    You should be aiming to get something more like

    y(t) = (A + a.sin(Vt))*sin( (F + f.sin(Vt))t)

    A is the pure amplitude, a is the amount of amplitude modulation
    F is the pure frequency, f is the amount of frequency modulation

    Where A >> a, F >> f and F >> V

    The vibrato will sound awful if it is a square wave (think ~DALEK!).

    So you want something like a triangle wave with sine shaper for the
    vibrato with a range of say 5-25 Hz and a voltage controlled oscillator
    being fed with that plus a DC voltage to determine centre pitch.
    I expect it was all done electronically by clever multitrack recording
    in the studio.
  5. josephkk

    josephkk Guest

    Jon, i am far from worlds greatest vocalist and i can control my vibrato
    in strength and frequency. If i can do it surely many professionals can.

  6. Greegor

    Greegor Guest

  7. Guest

    I hydraulic press on the chest? How about on the...
  8. Having been (at one time) a passably good violinist (my sister is still
    a world-class player) I don't find it at all unlikely. The vibrato is
    primarily driven by beta-rhythms, which though not under direct conscious
    control, can be and are finely controlled parametrically. I never tried
    to synchronize my vibrato with another violinist (who was also trying)
    but I have no doubt whatever that even I could have learnt it. All the
    more so professionals and for vocalists, for whom this control is even
    more central to their skills.

    Clifford Heath.
  9. Jasen Betts

    Jasen Betts Guest

    frequency control and feedback is all that's needed for that feat.

    it's called a PLL.
  10. josephkk

    josephkk Guest

    I think what makes this interesting is that two people did this sans
    electronics; or maybe not (it could have been done electronically). If i
    knew which track(s) i would love to listen to it for that property.

  11. Martin Brown

    Martin Brown Guest

    I am fairly convinced that most of it is down to clever post production
    electronic sound engineering with then state of the art gear. If you
    want to decide for your self try the album Arrival 1977 which sparkles
    whereas their live performances at the time were described as "Boring".

    The MP3 samples on Amazon are not technically that good at fairly low
    bit rates but should show it if you listen to any of samples

    2 Dancing Queen
    5 Knowing me, Knowing you
    11 Fernando

    Which have all got slow sustained bits with the girls voices relatively
    strong and clearly showing the feature he describes. I still think it is
    close miked and tweaked in post production. They were at the time
    legendary for very clever studio work in the "Wall of Sound" vein.

    I couldn't find anything useful about how it was done technically. Maybe
    someone who can read Swedish could perhaps fill in the gaps.
  12. Guest

    I wonder if Manhattan Transfer didn't use some of the same techniques.
    I'm told their live performances are "flat" or "muddled", though it
    could have just been the acoustics in the theater.

  13. Martin Brown

    Martin Brown Guest

    I don't think they did. At least put it this way the gear existed by
    then to do vocoder and other sophisticated voice modulation tricks.
    Don't know - they were kind of US retro 1920-30's music with a big hit
    in the UK with Chanson d'Amour and few others after that. AFAIK They are
    not obviously connected with the Wall of Sound studio techniques.

    Although they were in the same scene as various electronica artists like
    Donna Summer so anything is possible.
  14. Guest

    They do more than 20s-30s. Each album/CD was rather a different
    style. Their biggest attributes were their crisp enunciation and
    absolute synchronization, which brought them to mind in this
    discussion. I've been told it didn't go over well live, perhaps
    because there was no back-room editing. Though their "live" albums
    were good, "live" doesn't preclude a lot of fiddling in the studio.
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