The newbie's secret circuits circus

[CDRIVE]

You might think it's better not to burden us with a lot of background detail, but in reality, it just looks like you're being cagey, and often ends up in threads that go on for pages with nothing useful being said.

This is because nubes get this wacky idea that they think they're inventing something new and if they post the details it's going to be stolen. News flash.... Not probable!

 

[KrisBlueNZ]

This is because nubes get this wacky idea that they think they're inventing something new and if they post the details it's going to be stolen. News flash.... Not probable!

It often seems like that to me too. I try to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume there are other reasons.

I think it's partly because people (males, especially) like to think that they should be able to figure things out by themselves. Asking for help is seen as weakness, and they think they're just stuck on one small aspect of the project, so they think that by limiting the scope of the question, they are asking only for a small amount of help on one specific issue.

Also, when you're just starting out, it's impossible to know what information is important and what isn't. It's one of those "don't know that you don't know" things. So people really don't know what information will be important to us, and what won't. The only answer I see here is to ask them to tell us EVERYTHING they can about the project. But even if you ask, they still don't.

People also tend to make a general unconscious assumption that all the experiences they've been through so far with their project are somehow magically shared with everyone else who reads their post. So everyone who reads their post automatically has the full context of the project. I often see people say "I've already tried that" in response to a suggestion, as if they're insulted, but they didn't say that they had tried it, so how is anyone else to know?

I think there should be a posting that we can refer questioners to, that covers these issues and explains how to take a step back from your project and see it from another person's point of view. Imagine you're introducing a new person to your project for the first time. What background information do they need to know in order to understand what you're doing? What specific components are you using or considering? Can you link to data sheets? Can you upload schematics? Even for a simple question they can give us clues to how you're thinking. Can you upload photos? Even of a breadboard setup? What prior experience do you have in each of the fields that are relevant? What are the project's circumstances? (who is the job for, what's the financial situation, is there a deadline, etc). Are there any special requirements or restrictions? What have you tried? What possibilities have you considered but eliminated, and for what reasons? What is the ultimate aim of the project?

Another thing that irritates me is when I post a lot of questions, and the OP only answers one, or doesn't answer any of them. I ask questions to try to clarify my understanding of what they're trying to do, and make sure I haven't made any wrong assumptions. I don't ask them because I like to type question marks. I really wish people would put more effort into their communications. It's difficult enough trying to solve problems remotely with mainly just a text connection.

 

[davenn]

I think there should be a posting that we can refer questioners to, that covers these issues and explains how to take a step back from your project and see it from another person's point of view. Imagine you're introducing a new person to your project for the first time. What background information do they need to know in order to understand what you're doing? What specific components are you using or considering? Can you link to data sheets? Can you upload schematics? Even for a simple question they can give us clues to how you're thinking. Can you upload photos? Even of a breadboard setup? What prior experience do you have in each of the fields that are relevant? What are the project's circumstances? (who is the job for, what's the financial situation, is there a deadline, etc). Are there any special requirements or restrictions? What have you tried? What possibilities have you considered but eliminated, and for what reasons? What is the ultimate aim of the project?

Hi Kris

thats being worked on, there is some stuff already done.
the thing is we give the people access to that page and they still dont read it anyway
what else can you do ? lol
you are left with spelling it out in each post where needed
I appreciate it gets really frustrating playing the "20 questions" game all the time

Dave

 

[CocaCola]

In addition to this, most people refuse to admit they are capable of making a mistake... You see it quite often, where someone post a schematic and then says they built it exactly the same that but it doesn't work... When you dare to ask for pictures of the build you are met with 'It's exactly the same as the schematic'... It's a human flaw I learned to overcome long ago when trouble shooting electronics, NEVER ever assume you did anything correctly when it's not working... It's amazing at the number of bone head stupid little mistakes you will usually uncover once you owe up to the possibility that you can make a mistake, and look for it...

Also people refuse to accept many answers because they 'know' that there is some sneaky or other easier way to do it easier and think it's a secret among elders that isn't being shared... That old saying that "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing" aka "A small amount of knowledge can mislead people into thinking that they are more expert than they really are." applies in many of these instances...

 

[CDRIVE]

Then there's this scinerio... The OP told his boss that he can work out a fix for a device they use. A few days later, after not getting the results he expected, he gets desperate and posts "HELP!", At the same time it's a company project so he fears divulging anything that might get back to his employer.

Personally, my favorite posts (NOT) are the ones that ask for help but totally ignore absolutely every single reply. You spend your time by drawing schematics and or run spice sims, search data sheets for them but you don't even get an acknowledgment that he saw it! Instead, they post a whole new topic and ask the same questions.

 

[davenn]

wonderful world we live in... aye ?


D

 

[KrisBlueNZ]

the thing is we give the people access to that page and they still dont read it anyway. what else can you do ? lol

I'm not surprised. Perhaps... and this is only a perhaps... the forums could be changed so that moderators and/or experienced users could flag a particular thread for "more information needed", and it would be temporarily blocked from accepting responses from other users until a moderator or experienced user is happy that the OP has provided a reasonable level of detail.

When other users are reading the thread, they would see the message "this thread is temporarily blocked until the original poster provides a reasonable amount of background information. If you have a reply to contribute, please register your interest by clicking here". Then, the OP would be able to see that four users (or whatever) are interested in his thread; it would give him some incentive to come up with the needed information. Once his info has been accepted, the users who registered their interest could be informed with a PM, and they would be able to reply on the thread.

 

[(*steve*)]

In addition to this, most people refuse to admit they are capable of making a mistake...

Oh, I never make mistakes... hahahah Bwahahaha ROFL

I have a cat that will patiently sit and listen while I explain *exactly* what my circuit (or whatever) is supposed to do. At some point I generally slap myself across the head. He's great at finding the problems in my circuits. What would I do without him?

 

[CDRIVE]

Someone appears to be showing acute symptoms of being bureaucratically deprived. As for me, I have enough bureaucracy in my life already.

 

[davenn]

Oh, I never make mistakes... hahahah Bwahahaha ROFL

what's the old saying.....

I thought I made a mistake once .... but I was wrong



D

 

[(*steve*)]

I have moved the discussion here from https://www.electronicspoint.com/application-7805-a-t249784p2.html because it's not going to help in that thread.

Whiles the discussion itself isn't off-topic, I think it best fits the members lounge best.

 

[KrisBlueNZ]

Thinking more along the same lines, here's a suggestion that might be less disruptive.

A user (the OP) starts a thread by asking a question. Any user can read the thread. If he thinks that the OP should provide some other important information, instead of posting a reply, he can click "request more information". He would then see a list of the common areas where posts lack information, and can choose the area(s) in which he thinks the original post is deficient. This "request for details" would then appear like a normal reply in the thread, saying that user such-and-such wishes to reply but wants more information in the following categories. That post would also have a link to a general description of "how to write a question that people can answer", for those users who would bother to read it. (There must be SOME...)

The OP can then see that there are people who are prepared to try to help, and can see which areas need to be improved in his question.

Again, just a suggestion.

Edit: Steve, could you please delete the copy of this post that I added to the 7805 thread (before I saw that you'd moved the discussion here), thanks.

 

[CDRIVE]

I have moved the discussion here from https://www.electronicspoint.com/application-7805-a-t249784p2.html because it's not going to help in that thread.

Whiles the discussion itself isn't off-topic, I think it best fits the members lounge best.

Steve, considering the great title you gave this topic (brought tears to my eyes) I thought I'd submit the following attachment. I created this jewel about a year ago in response to a greenie nube on another forum. He had just spent some time reading drivel on one of those over unity sites and had his young little head buzzing with dreams of grandeur and fame and endless freeeeeeeeee energy.

I hope everyone enjoys it.

Chris

 

[KrisBlueNZ]

CDRIVE, nice work! It has all the important elements: a rotating disc, magnets and coils, and diodes. Diodes are very important, you know. It could do with a few capacitors though. Maybe some of those super-low-inductance ones. So, are you going to start your own "over-unity" web site now? LOL

 

[CDRIVE]

Kris, I don't think I could hold up against the competition.

Chris

 

[KrisBlueNZ]

http://catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

This is a good article written by Eric Raymond. It was linked from a thread on LinkedIn where the same problem was being discussed.

Unfortunately the article is probably much too long for lazy people and/or those with poor English language skills, but it might be worthwhile making a one-page summary of it.

 

[donkey]

I find a few issues with getting the right info.
first of all... its a secret, so I can't tell you
second of all its that thingy thats blue and round and looks like -| |- on the circuit board.
3rd is u dun no wut eye is sai ing.

but the lack of information on a problem has to be without a doubt the most frustrating.
as you all know I am dabbling in arduino.... got some guy message me the other day asking what was wrong with his code..... it would have been nice for him to post his code... or at least the errors he is seeing.

we could always have a nice page with the RIGHT questions and explain why each is important.
this would help us out alot, and explain to newcomers what we need to be able to help them

oh just an addition, can we get people to stop posting "help me" or "its broke" tell us in the thread title a brief description of what the item is and what area of help they need. e.g. "torch flickers" "speaker crackles" anything is better than "help me"

 

[KrisBlueNZ]

donkey, agreed 100%. Good suggestions there. I just LOVE threads with a title of "advice needed" or "electronics question".

Re "what is wrong with my code?" you could always point them to this answer or suggest that they ask this expert.

 

[CDRIVE]

The "HELP!" title P!sses me off the most. It's usually an indication that the OP hasn't, and has absolutely no intention of doing any leg work on his own. When I search forums I like to limit the search to "Titles Only" but that title makes searches useless.

Chris

 

[KJ6EAD]

In my opinion, useless titles like "HELP" should be considered a rule violation and subject to moderator action including, but not limited to, arbitrary retitling.

On another forum, for a long-running thread, I located an important unit-specific document, helpfully posted it and made reference to it's relevant content. The OP responded that he already had it and when asked why he hadn't included it with his first post said he didn't want to bias the process with prejudicial information...as if the manufacturer's specifications are less reliable than a bunch of people guessing.