Maker Pro
Maker Pro

Sustainable Agriculture.

P

Peter Duncanson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Now Bird Flu is on the horizon, alas, and they seek once again to influence
the government by fair means or foul.

"Foul"? Surely you mean "fowl".

The lawyers are hard at work studying ancient laws regarding the
driving of flocks of geese through the City of Westminster.

The proposal is to surround the Palace of Westmister with feeding
stations for large numbers of flocks simultaneously. Many flocks
will be driven into the city from all points of the compass and in
between. They will stop at the feeding stations for as long as it
takes for them all to be fed and watered (this will be essential on
welfare grounds and could take hours). Two or three people wearing
pantomime Mother Goose outfits will approach parliament with a
petition -- in a giant artificial egg of course.

Clearing the streets of goose droppings will be the responsibilty of
Westminster City Council.

This is a fantasy hot out of my fevered imagination.
 
P

Pat Gardiner

Jan 1, 1970
0
Peter Duncanson said:
"Foul"? Surely you mean "fowl".

Yes, I picked that up as I wrote it, but decided that the subject was too
serious to allow for the kind of levity regarded as appropriate in pseudo
(however spelled) scientific circles
The lawyers are hard at work studying ancient laws regarding the
driving of flocks of geese through the City of Westminster.

The proposal is to surround the Palace of Westmister with feeding
stations for large numbers of flocks simultaneously. Many flocks
will be driven into the city from all points of the compass and in
between. They will stop at the feeding stations for as long as it
takes for them all to be fed and watered (this will be essential on
welfare grounds and could take hours). Two or three people wearing
pantomime Mother Goose outfits will approach parliament with a
petition -- in a giant artificial egg of course.

Clearing the streets of goose droppings will be the responsibilty of
Westminster City Council.

This is a fantasy hot out of my fevered imagination.

You need to be careful with fantasies hot out of your fevered imagination.
I'm not sure that is what the world expects from Queens.

We expect dour application to the essentials of English Grammar. You can't
leave everything to Bill Gates and his checkers.

[/QUOTE]
 
O

Old Codger

Jan 1, 1970
0
Pat said:
Those that hoped to earn something by association with the great and
good?

Not many "great and good" here, unless you count Oz. :)
The record speaks for itself. The worst was, of course, the constant
co-ordinated attacks on the Sunday Times journalist Jonathon Miller.

Complete bullsh**. Even if that were true I would have thought a journalist
from a major national newspaper could have stood up for himself. Of course,
those here who know about these things considered he was posting dangerous
rubbish. Even I could see there was no supporting evidence for some of his
claims, e.g. cheap effective vaccine.
As I say, read my humble writings on shipping and self-sufficiency,
then read Jim Webster on Jack Vance. Try some of the Vanceite forums
for a real chill down the spine. I later found that some of the
parallels with the recent;y publicised Darlington cult, were not so
far of the mark.

I have not read any of Jim's writings on Jack Vance but I have read a little
of yours. I must say I was not impressed.
Do remember that uk.business.agriculture are the newsgroup that
currently spends nearly 700 posts on the best way to suffocate
poultry in bulk and managed to introduce Auschwitz to the discussion.
No wonder they arrange to delete their posts after as little as four
days.

There you are, I *knew* you were Alan Connor.

The thread you mention discusses many things. The posts that do relate to
culling chickens show overwhelming concern to find a method that is humane.
Only you could put such an obscene interpretation on a discussion of such
relevance to agriculture and therefore to many of the posters to this group.
Some of Jim's signatures bear examination:

"Reality Facilitor" (I'm told this refers to his real life role
playing games)

oooOOOooo

"The pasture of stupidity is unwholesome to mankind"

'Abd-ar-Rahman b. Muhammad b. Khaldun al-Hadrami'

(goodness knows what this was about, given the Auschwitz reference,
not anti semetic I trust?)

oooOOOooo

We worship the inexorable god known as Dangott.
Strangers are automatically heretics, and so are fed to the sacred
apes.
(This is it seems a quote from his hero - Jack Vance)

The point is that none of these signatures have anything to do with
the UK, Business or Agriculture.

No particular reason why they should.
I think that my posts dealing almost exclusively with corrupt
government veterinarians stand well against the very strange
offerings of Jim and his followers.

Jim's offerings are not strange. Your posts would have some validity *if*
there was any evidence to support your strange claims. At best you appear
to have suffered an upsetting experience that almost certainly has a
relatively innocent explanation.

--
Old Codger
e-mail use reply to field

What matters in politics is not what happens, but what you can make people
believe has happened. [Janet Daley 27/8/2003]
 
D

Day Brown

Jan 1, 1970
0
JoeSP said:
You haven't proven the link. You are making an assumption.
No, I said it was in *litigation* now. I also said that health
professionals
that I personally know have known about the mercury hazard, and there
are lots of websites providing the data to support their concern. I dont
say what mercury causes, I say what the epedemiological data is, which
is convincing, most especially to health professionals with kids. But I
am perfectly willing to wait for the court to decide what to do about
it, even tho, if they should award damages, you wont find that 'proving
anything'. What you do with your kids is your problem.
 
H

Hamish

Jan 1, 1970
0
?
Is it available? I'll have one!

Carefull Michelle, he will notice you have posted to the group under two
'aliases', neither of which were your birth name
and accuse you of being a troll :)
 
J

Jim Webster

Jan 1, 1970
0
Peter Duncanson said:
"Foul"? Surely you mean "fowl".

The lawyers are hard at work studying ancient laws regarding the
driving of flocks of geese through the City of Westminster.

The proposal is to surround the Palace of Westmister with feeding
stations for large numbers of flocks simultaneously. Many flocks
will be driven into the city from all points of the compass and in
between. They will stop at the feeding stations for as long as it
takes for them all to be fed and watered (this will be essential on
welfare grounds and could take hours). Two or three people wearing
pantomime Mother Goose outfits will approach parliament with a
petition -- in a giant artificial egg of course.

Clearing the streets of goose droppings will be the responsibilty of
Westminster City Council.

This is a fantasy hot out of my fevered imagination.

interesting to think that it used to happen, after a fashion, with geese
being driven long distances to slaughter. Every so often you get a glimpse
of the unimaginable past, like the bit in Christmas Carol where Scrooge
awakens on the morning of 25th December and is still able to buy the fowl of
his choice because people are still trading.
Or in one of the Sherlock Holmes stories where a gem is discovered in the
crop of a Christmas bird and Holmes has to work out whose it is and catch
the thief. And still manages to buy one to replace it.

Some of the implications for that way of doing things genuinely spread
across the fields of interest of all three newsgroups ;-))))
--

Jim Webster.

Pat Gardiner, now in the sixth year of raving about bent vets and still no
result
 
T

Tim May

Jan 1, 1970
0
Day Brown said:
I aint talking about industry, but family farms, or better yet,
*community* farms like the Athenians had. the neighborhoods owned tracts
of rural land that urbanites would go out to from time to time; like to
be on hand when lotsa help is needed for harvest.

"Communes" are for communists.

With equipment and a market system, extra labor at harvest time can be
_hired_. Having the "community" communally own farms is a losing idea.

The layabouts in Jamestown, who preferred to lounge under a tree while
the suckers broke their backs in the hot Virginia sun, were just one of
many such examples of why communal labor almost always fails.

(And, yes, I got suckered into agreeing to some labor for friends.
Usually a few of us were carrying most of the rocks (for a new
retaining wall drainage system), several people were mostly standing
around, the chicks were gabbing, and a couple of people appointed
themselves as supervisors. And, it turned out, the labor was mainly
helping the acquaintance get his place ready to sell, which he did. I
never ask for such free help at my place, and I have now sworn off all
such "communal" efforts. It's what money is for.)

And as for harvesting by hand, this is a token, feelgood effort. Even
the farmers of a century ago were using mechanical equipment. Even the
peasants in the Turd World buy equipment, when they can afford to.

Running a farm with Neolithic methods is silly.



--Tim May
 
D

Day Brown

Jan 1, 1970
0
Tim said:
"Communes" are for communists.

With equipment and a market system, extra labor at harvest time can be
_hired_. Having the "community" communally own farms is a losing idea.

The layabouts in Jamestown, who preferred to lounge under a tree while
the suckers broke their backs in the hot Virginia sun, were just one of
many such examples of why communal labor almost always fails.

(And, yes, I got suckered into agreeing to some labor for friends.
Usually a few of us were carrying most of the rocks (for a new
retaining wall drainage system), several people were mostly standing
around, the chicks were gabbing, and a couple of people appointed
themselves as supervisors. And, it turned out, the labor was mainly
helping the acquaintance get his place ready to sell, which he did. I
never ask for such free help at my place, and I have now sworn off all
such "communal" efforts. It's what money is for.)

And as for harvesting by hand, this is a token, feelgood effort. Even
the farmers of a century ago were using mechanical equipment. Even the
peasants in the Turd World buy equipment, when they can afford to.

Running a farm with Neolithic methods is silly.
Use whatever methods you and your friends like. Mine are mostly health
professionals with lots of data to support their concern about the
effect of agribusiness chemicals on the food used to raise their kids.

And yes- some are in the kitchen now, talking as they have for hours.
but corporate meetings to establish a new business are like that. Just
because it is a limited partnership dont make it a communistic commune.
And yes, there's some concern over laziness, just as there is in the way
the givernment and transnationals operate. There are lazy, corrupt, and
ineffective people everywhere.

The Athenians had the same problem; I dont blame Xanthippus for bitching
about Socrates always being on the square bullschitting rather than
going out to the farm to get something useful done. But she only did
that because she felt, as a member of the coop, that she had an
*investment* to protect.

Maybe you missed it, others seem to have as well; I guess it is too far
out of the box. But harvesting blueberries here is the *only* way to do
it. But we also have a sawmill, and chainsaws; in either case, the work
which would quickly grow to be drudgery, is *FUN* for folks who only
have to do it on an occassional weekend. And sure, there are many who
can only get things done with money. But there are others with more
social skills and who appreciate the comeradery of joint effort, who
find cooperation an effective way to reduce the cost of living. Since
they cant raise their incomes in the face of global competition, what
else can they do?
 
D

Day Brown

Jan 1, 1970
0
Lets start with this; you call it communism; but they operated as a sub
chapter S corporation. There was nobody forcing anyone to become a
member such as existed in the socialist nations. People were a part of
the operation becaus they thot it was in their own self interest. You
dont wanna? I dont have a problem with that.

Those who want more control over the chemicals that will used on the
food they feed their children are not looking for the lowest short term
price, but the best long term results in terms of the physical and
mental development of their kids.

You dont care? dont get involved, but dont try to tell others what they
should do. Rely on government regulations regarding the food you have.
They find the regulations are out of date, inefficient, and subject to
corruption from a number of sources.

By passing regulations lowers their costs at the same time it allows
them to increase what they perceive to be the value. You may think it is
all bullschit, but dont argue with me, argue with them, and study up on
chemistry before you do. Most of them I know are health professionals
who have studied both Gray's Anatomy and organic chemistry.
 
G

Gunner

Jan 1, 1970
0
Yeah, there is an old saying..... "You become your enemy".

What is the difference between Stalinist Russia, and corporate
run America, where 1 of every 100 people are in prison, all
communications are monitored, half the houses are bugged,
rigged elections with no external monitoring allowed, and your
job can be eliminated if you speak out against the rulers?

Capitalist tyrants will economically murder you, where Stalinist
tyrants just shot you. I wonder which is more humane?


All communications monitored?
Half the houses are bugged?
Rigged elections?
job eliminated?

Blink blink..you really are starkers.

Ok..Ill play..provide cites to back up your claim or be shown to be a
buffoon.

Ill be waiting.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner
 
D

Day Brown

Jan 1, 1970
0
Well in this case, in contrast to both Communism and Transnationals, the
solution is from the bottom up. None of the great power centers really
want people organizing at the grass roots and using the grass stems to
make alcohol fuel.

But they have shown us diversification, so we should grow several crops
at several locations. And they've shown us vertical integration, so we
should use the organization to grow as much of what we consume from
within the corporation. And- they've shown us how corporations avoid
taxes by re-investing profits. They've also shown how corporations can
get deals from local governments on infrastructure support at the same
time sticking other tax payers with the bill for doing it.

And if the profits are enough, rather than paying taxes on them, we
could call a board meeting in the Bahamas next winter, and charter a jet
to carry us down there, all written off on the taxes. Course, a charter
is just going to have our own personnel on it, so it wont have anyone on
board with bronchitus, TB, or like that trip to London, ebola. None of
our people will pick up a bird flu from flying.
 
G

Gunner

Jan 1, 1970
0
You don't read the news or watch TV? Have of all media has been
talking about the NSA monitoring of all US citizen's phone calls,
emails, usenet posts, web site visits, etc. People are screaming, and
the government claims it is needed to get those pesky terrorists.
But in the meantime, they are collecting info on your love life, drug
habits, sexual preferences, stock trades, etc, etc. Of course, Mr. Bush
says the famous words which always preceeds the stab in the back......
"trust us, we are the government" . ha ha

Which planet is that you live on? On Earth..Sol 3, Terra..the
government has been using computers to look for certain phone number
being called, and using computers to listen to phone calls that go out
of the us to certain unfriendly countries..to some of those same phone
numbers.
Maybe you just gloss over those stories, because you don't want
to believe it is really happening?

I also read/heard in the media that Elvis is still alive, that
Jennifer Aniston had the Devils child and a fellow drove across the
US on a tablespoon of tap water. This makes it true. Correct?
Well as always, what the government says it does legally, and what
it does in reality are 2 different things. The NSA phone surveillance is
just the "tip of the iceberg", and only was made public because of some
leaks( surrounding Qwest's refusal to comply).
The key difference is the legality of the bugging. Up until now, the
government was bugging the phones without search warrants, but it
could not be used as evidence in court. It was a super-secret governemnt
program. Now that it is known, and declared "legal" by the Bush regime,
they can routinely use those calls gathered in a "fishing expedition"
legally in court against you. Previously, there was always the
"anonymous sources" mentioned as a rational to investigate you.

Are you refering to Clintons Carnivor and Echelon programs of phone
call searches by computers of certain keywords? Now this has what do
to with bugging houses?
You can be assured that if you are in any public building, you are
either on video tape, or audio tape. 60 Minutes has done a few
exposes on the prevalence of audio bugging, and video is catching up
fast.

My house is not a public building. Yours is, I take it? Or did I just
catch you lying?
It does not take a genius to realize that they are doing the same thing
to private residences without warrants. Sure, they cannot use it (or
admit to it in court), once again it is "anonymous tips" to the police.
With modern technology, they don't even need to actually place
a bug in your premises, and this further muddies the legal waters.
Imagine this, an advanced high tech black blimp, which floats above
a town at about 10000 feet. It can watch all car movements, watch
people with infrared, and bounce lasers off of your roofs and windows,
which act like big resonators sending all sounds in the premises back
up to the computer link. Video images can sometimes be taken this way
too. Did you know that with the right equipment, you can record clear
video through glass-block windows?
Or how about just a super-sensitive sensor, just buried in the ground,
which picks up audio? Those exist.

So..supposition and the ability to do something means that they ARE
doing it. Interesting. Got any hot tips on who kidnapped the Lindberg
Baby or where Jimmy Hoffa is buried?
If you want to be a "babe in the woods" and believe that your
conversations are not being heard, that's fine..... but don't say you
have not been warned. Just google for the size of the US Spy industry
and the size of the secret budget used for spying. That's alot of money.

Wow!! Indeed! Almost as much as the ad money for Superbowl Sunday!

Im truly impressed!!
Google for "Diebold". The CEO of Diebold was relieved of command after
he publically proclaimed that he would do everything in his power to
elect G. W. Bush. Then google for all the states who are banning
Diebold's machines?

Yes and? Where is the rigged elections part? Now about those pesky
hanging chads again...and Democrats too stupid to vote for the write
person...and 14 court challenges....?
But that is not the main way they commit voter fraud. What they do in
general, is put 100's of brand new high quality voting machines in
districts where rich republican supporters are, so that they never
have to wait more than 10 minutes in line. Then in poorer democratic
districts, they have only a few working machines, with hour long waiting
lines, and thousands in line, who are turned away because the polls
close. When you add all these lost votes up, they would swing elections.
?they? is that the Infamous "they" that everybody talks about? Give
me some examples of "they" so Ill know what to lookout for.
The biggest sore on their system, is that the US will not allow
international voting-fairness inspectors in to inspect elections. We
demand it in other countries, but we won't allow it here. And you can
guess why, can't you?

No. Please tell us. And give my regards to the Daleys as well.
Where have you been? Unions have been systematically destroyed.
Jobs are being outsourced. Google for "whistleblowers" and see that
their lives usually get destroyed for exposing corporate toxic dumps,
etc. Sure corporate profits go up....but the little guy gets the shaft,
and now the numbers of shafted little guys is growing, and becoming a
threat to the corporate power structure. So you call the little shafted
guys terrorists, and bug the hell out of them.
Lives destroyed? You mean they lose their jobs? Awsome dude! As for
the Unions...well..you can thank the fat rat bastards at the top of
each union for destroying their own unions. Hows Jimmy Hoffa doing
these days?
Well, I would say that you just don't want to admit to what is happening
all around you. That is just where they want you. Just keep watching Fox
news, and believe it is all being done for Jesus.
Ill tell Elvis you said Hi! as we read the Rather Memos before we go
out to look at all the exploding gas tanks.

Perhaps this may help you.

http://zapatopi.net/afdb/


Gunner
Eh, well you can think what you want. You can call me a buffoon or
bonkers if you want, but this stuff is happening. One day you will wake
up and wonder how did they take all your privacy away?

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner
 
D

Day Brown

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hey guys, we have no fucking idea what the givernment is doing, and only
a fool would believe what he is told about it.

However, I got a comp sci minor in 1971, and have been in the field ever
since, and I dont see how the givernment would have the personnel and
computer equipment to monitor millions of couch potatoes. What make you
think they giva **** what you think? That's what Fox news is for.

As a measure of their incompetence, the first time they searched my
house, in 1968, when the search warrent arrived [I let them get started
searching to get it over with], it had the wrong name and the wrong
address. And in 1998, I guess my name was still in the data base cause
they searched my property again. Coming up empty handed.

One time, they busted into a halloween party, and arrested me for the
drugs guests dropped on the floor when the cops arrived. The judge threw
that case out of court; the *OTHER SIX TIMES*, they found nothing. nada.

No wonder they cant win the war on drugs; they dont want to win it, they
want to MILK it. And they wanna milk the war on Terror the same way; not
that there are not terrorists, but there are far more effective ways of
dealing with them that you dont want to hear about.
 
D

Day Brown

Jan 1, 1970
0
zentara said:
They are using the "boogie man" of terrorism, to establish Big Brother.
Just like the 911 Commission hearings suggest...... the higher-ups at
the FBI told agents to leave the perps alone.... because they wanted
an incident that would allow them to start the Afgan war, the Iraqi war,
and begin the Big Brother surveillance and control over domestic
citizens. It's just like the Haymarket Square massacre, whereing FBI
agents blew up some people, blamed the unionists and anarchists,
then put them all in prison, before they threatened the political
bosses.

I dont think of Big Brother so much as Ma Bell. I understand the
tyrannic instincts of the alpha males like Bush who think they are in
charge, and charge us enormous sums for their management. But one way or
the other, that trip, the rule by the warrior class, which began in the
bronze age, is at the end of it's 5000 year run. The strong right arm,
sword in hand, just dont cut it any more.

Ma Bell is more intuitive, thinks more about what sheeple want, and is
using media to manipulate what they want. Giving Bush enough rope has
shown everyone now how the military industrial complex and the oxmoronic
'intelligence community' dont get it, never did, never will. Draconian
control of free speech and the press dont work any more, so it'll be the
more subtle forms of Ma Bell, with bread & circuses to keep the spuds on
the couch while the women taking over the reins of power consider what
to do about the mess they have to clean up.

Most of the case managers have kept up on the human genome, the
bio-chemistry of the mind, and the interactions between these and junk
food, soda, and environmental contamination which has badly damaged the
rationality of the electorate. Which is how Bush got in office in the
first place. The majority of voters in this nation are fucking nuts.

So- there is *no* truely democratic solution. Its not a case of trying
to 'educate' the voters. They all live in the Untied States of Denial,
and wont hear of anything openly challenging their myths. On NPR this
morning, I heard them speak of the psychological stress of the war in
Iraq as causing the rampage of marines murdering civilians. Well, ok.
Now how about the psychological stress of growing up in a mysogenistic
Arab culture that follows a prophet with a 9 year old wife. How nuts do
you have to be to do that? And dont we have here, not a contest between
good and evil in the standard warrior tradition, but a question of much
better case management for all these jackasses running around with guns
and explosives?
 
D

Day Brown

Jan 1, 1970
0
I sympathize, but as I infer in another post, you cant form a national
workers party because the workers brains did not develop properly being
raised on diets of junk & fast food and soda... aggrevated by exposure
to contaminated vaccines, water, food, and both indoor and outdoor air
pollution. Its why academic scores have fallen, for one.

So- you can talk to the workers, or post here, but they just dont get
it. Dr. Freud noted that neurotics have an intolerance of ambiguity. I
see therefore, that they choose dualistic cosmologies of good/evil,
blessed/damned, and dont try to figure out why things happen, satisfied
with saying that its just "god's will". They can only handle two
political parties. And each party has to define itself as holy and good
with the other as evil and damned.

Its time to think local; there still are some communities which have had
low levels of pollution- where the kids lived in small towns that lacked
fast food outlets, and where the schools still work and the population
is much more rational. Some transnationals have noticed, and are putting
in new facilities creating jobs that require more rational personnel. In
any case, if the ineptitude and corruption of the political system leads
to economic panic and anarchy, it'll be communities like this that will
be able to pull together and rapidly reorganize after the collapse of a
dysfunctional central government like the Baltic Nations did.
 
M

mike wilcox

Jan 1, 1970
0
zentara said:
Well I know you are old enough to remember the Vietnam War. Remember
when the CEO of MaBell was arrested and convicted of doing massive
illegal wiretaps on anti-war subversives? I do.

The eavesdropping has been going on all along. The difference this time,
is that the Bush regime, using the mantra of the terrorist boogieman,
has declared it legal, and has the "corporate bought and paid for
Congress" just laying down and rolling over.

If Watergate happened today, there wouldn't be any prosecution. The
administration would claim that there was secret evidence, which is top
secret, and the media wouldn't run the true story, because the corporate
network owners would threaten to fire the news executive that allowed
the reporters to work on the story, because they would be revealing
national security secrets.




I see it as class-warfare masquerading as national security. There is a
1% who owns and controls 99% of the US. These people don't want to
risk their personal peace and happiness to maintain their rule. So they
delve into the lower classes and get some people thay can brainwash and
make into upper-middle-class dogs who will surpress the rest of the
proletariat. These have become a class of overlord slave drivers, who
believe that they are better than the poor, and go around demanding
more-work-for-less-pay, evicting people from housing for being poor,
controlling the lucrative drug black market, and becoming killers for
the miltary.

The 1% is very afraid of the Revolution which is spreading amoung the
poor of the world, and threatening their control. From the Islamic
Revolution, to the people-power revolutions going on in S. America.
They want to prevent it from happening here, and if there were fair
elections, it probably would.




Yeah, their number 1 goal is to keep the "rat-race" going. It's like a
merry-go-round, as long as its running, the riders are mesmerized into
a docile state. I can only imagine the revolt that would occur in this
country if the cars stopped rolling.




Yep, I agree with you there. Declare Martial law and limit people to
10 gallons per month fuel, that ought to do it. :)

Bingo! Now I know there are at least two of us ;~) I figured this same
line of reasoning out when I got my first job. I think a lot of people
realize all this, but bury it deep and live in denial.
 
D

Day Brown

Jan 1, 1970
0
zentara said:
Yep, I agree with you there. Declare Martial law and limit people to
10 gallons per month fuel, that ought to do it. :)

Well for sure, its not upta us. the number of rational voters is but a
small portion of the vote. Nevertheless, I see some hopeful signs, like
a report on TV of what looks like a defacto gated community for addicted
parents and their kids... rather than sending the kids into foster care.

It looks like Neotribalism; the therapists and case workers are like the
witches and shamen, managing the meds [herbs] of the community, with
lots of tribal eyeballs around to watch the interactions, and interfere
when things look abusive.

But I dont think Martial law is gonna work any more. They simply have
tried to do it on the cheap, and just like Iraq, dont have *nearly* enuf
personnel in uniform to handle a national crisis. They couldnt even
handle a regional thing like Katrina.

The rich dont pay their taxes, but they do *lend* the givernment the
money to do what they want done. But that has not resulted in real
silver in the danari paid to the legions. When the empire began, the
danari was a nickle sized hunk of real silver; as it declined, lead was
added, and at the end, it was only 5%. That gets you 5% of the loyalty
of the military; the other 95% may see that their guns will permit them
to go into business for themselves, taking by force from the villas of
the rich the silver their forefathers got paid in.

Machiavelli and Gibbon talk about all this, but the rich dont read
history now either. My Ozark hillbilly friends tell me we are at that
awkward time when it is too late for them to fix things, but still too
early to drag the bastards out to be shot. The only debate is just how
early it is.

The only real solutions for we few who are still rational, is to get the
**** out of the way before new and more powerful weapons get used, and
work on local solutions to help stabilize local law enforcement.

I grew sorghum last year, and am trying switchgrass this year... for
alcohol production, which is several times more efficient than trying to
use corn. From what the U of GA agronomy says, I can expect 100-150
gallons of alcohol/acre.

http://www.ars.usda.gov/Main/docs.htm?docid=10250 says that 20,000 acres
of switchgrass can produce 10 *million* gallons (after you convert the
metric numbers from hectares and liters) or nearly 500 gallons/acre. The
economics are already compelling, and this study ignores the use of the
left over mash as stock feed. Which would result in another 500 pounds
of meat/acre/year.

You only hear about corn cause that is the crop that the suppliers, like
ADM, Monsanto, Dow, Exxon, etc make money on selling fuel, pesticides,
herbicides, fertilizer, and hybrid or GM seed.

The average farm county is 25x25 miles. About 40,000 acres. Thus, just a
small portion of the average county could provide all the fuel it needs,
and the output from a few counties could provide all the alcohol fuel a
nearby metro area needs. I dont think the powers that now be want this
to take off because it would disperse so much power into the hands of
millions of small farmers who'd be selling alcohol fuel along with the
veggies at their produce stands. Collecting the taxes from this kind of
dispersed power distribution system would also be a nightmare.

Moreover, urbanites could use the 501-C3 community garden model to grow
their own fuel *TAX FREE* for their own consumption. An example of the
kind of vertical integration the transnationals have used for decades.

The American People would not only become energy independent, they'd
become largely independent of the *givernment* as well. Frightning.
 
G

Gunner

Jan 1, 1970
0
No problem, you appear to be an apologist for the totalitarian takeover.
It's a good position to take, its safer.

You on the other hand appear to be an apologist for the nuts, flakes
and fruits.

Change your Nick to Kellog or Cereal.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner
 
G

Gunner

Jan 1, 1970
0
I guess you don't read the news. All (read "ALL") calls are routed
through an NSA computer. The news broke because Qwest refused to
do it. Every cell phone call is in a database.


Heh, you really are uninformed. They caught the Lindberg perp.

Thats what they say. We know it was the Nazis who killed the kid. The
Space Nazis from Reich 3
And to broaden youir horizons, Hoffa was killed by the power elite
for trying to form a National Workers Union. The mob hit thing
is all a smokescreen for guys like you.

I thought his handlers at 13 Dzeryinsky Square did it after they
caught him with his hand in the Party's cookie jar? I read it in the
Equirer..or was that on CBS?
It's a free country according to you, why don't you start to organize
a National Workers Union, so you can call nationwide strikes, and see
what happens to you?

Because I detest unions? Thats a pretty good reason.
I'm sorry I got you involved in this Gunner. As you rightly have pointed
out, I'm a whacko, and on the government watchlist. BUT..... since you
and I have been passing posts to one another, you are now a suspect.
The government was watching, and although we appear to be at odds
on the issues, they know that is may be a ploy to protect you. They
suspect that we are passing key-phrases buried in our posts, to decrypt
the binaries posted in alt.test, which contain our plans for the
takeover. Damn. Also watch who you telephone, because since you are
now on the watchlist as a "possible", everyone you telephone or
communicate with, for the next year, will have to be watched too.
Christ on a crutch boy..Ive been on Government watch lists far far
longer than you. Im a survivalist, know a number of militia people and
so forth. When a Dem is in power..Im a public enemy..when a Repub is
in power..Im just part of middle America/ Hell..during Vietnam..the
Feebs used tap my parents phone cause my cousin was a draft dodge.

Watch lists dont bother me in the slightest. Ive been around the block
a couple times..and if anyone is interested in my..they need only run
my nym though the computers..hell even do a extended Google for all
manner of stuff. And yet they havent broken down my front door, or did
a Clinton and sicced the IRS on me etc etc.

Im pretty much an open book..and .05 nanoseconds on a Cray is gonna
turn up shit in my posts, emails and so forth. Shrug...Ive nothing to
hide..from either a Democrat or a Republican administration.

Or the National Inquirer..which is far far worse.
Once again, sorry about this. But I do feel safer that they are now
watching you, and your cell. :)
Chuckle...why do I suddenly feel like a nice big yawn?

Mind control rays from Reich 3?


Laugh laugh laugh

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner
 
G

Gunner

Jan 1, 1970
0
Probably the ultrasonics, did you see
http://www.hightechharassment.com/

Remember, it's 1.4,2.6,3.5,4.1,5.5,6.1,7.4,invert,ascii-1,bit-flip


Johns mustache is green.
The palm tree fell on the road.
The snow fell in August.
endit

Hell..lets make it easy on them..

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Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner
 
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