Surrette quality

[Robert Morein]

I was interested in ordering The Surrette Solar 1T L16 Model S460
http://www.nwes.com/batteries-II.htm#Trojan 6 Volt Batteries

Surprisingly, the dealer had a very negative opinion about the batteries,
citing a 50% recent failure rate, and essentially refused to sell them
except for replacement purposes. She's going to take them off her website.
She recommended that I pick up the Trojan L16 locally!

Occasionally, a manufacturer's QC goes to pot suddenly and completely.

Has this happened with Surrette? Can anyone provide any recent experience,
either way?

 

[no useful info]

I was interested in ordering The Surrette Solar 1T L16 Model S460
http://www.nwes.com/batteries-II.htm#Trojan 6 Volt Batteries

Surprisingly, the dealer had a very negative opinion about the batteries,
citing a 50% recent failure rate, and essentially refused to sell them
except for replacement purposes. She's going to take them off her website.
She recommended that I pick up the Trojan L16 locally!

Occasionally, a manufacturer's QC goes to pot suddenly and completely.

Has this happened with Surrette? Can anyone provide any recent experience,
either way?

so I guess we are to assume your research skills don't include reading
other threads in this group, nor the capability to use google

http://groups.google.com/groups?num=50&hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&newwindow=
1&c2coff=1&scoring=d&q=Surrette+quality&btnG=Search

http://groups.google.com/groups?as_q=Surrette&safe=images&ie=ISO-8859-1&a
s_ugroup=alt.solar.photovoltaic&as_scoring=d&lr=&num=50&hl=en


just what type of fastener are you going to use on your battery box?

 

[Robert Morein]

so I guess we are to assume your research skills don't include reading
other threads in this group, nor the capability to use google

http://groups.google.com/groups?num=50&hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&newwindow=
1&c2coff=1&scoring=d&q=Surrette+quality&btnG=Search

http://groups.google.com/groups?as_q=Surrette&safe=images&ie=ISO-8859-1&a
s_ugroup=alt.solar.photovoltaic&as_scoring=d&lr=&num=50&hl=en

There is nothing relevant in the above links.
The most recent thread on Surrette quality is 8/30/2002
It has nothing to do with possible lapses of quality since that time that
would cause Northwest Energy Systems to ditch the product.

Are we to assume that you are malicious, or simply stupid?

 

[no useful info]

There is nothing relevant in the above links.
The most recent thread on Surrette quality is 8/30/2002
It has nothing to do with possible lapses of quality since that time that
would cause Northwest Energy Systems to ditch the product.

Are we to assume that you are malicious, or simply stupid?

you know what they say about people who assume

 

[George Ghio]

There is nothing relevant in the above links.
The most recent thread on Surrette quality is 8/30/2002
It has nothing to do with possible lapses of quality since that time that
would cause Northwest Energy Systems to ditch the product.

Are we to assume that you are malicious, or simply stupid?

The number one cause of battery failure is the end user. Buying good
batteries and treating them as expendables leads to spending a lot of
money.

Then you have the the golfer mentality.

The doctor says you need more exercise and you should take up golf. So
the first thing a would be golfer does is to buy a golf cart so he can
sit on his ass to play the game.

The point of this is that if you buy batteries and then sit on your ass
while they do the work then they will fail due to a lack of maint.

Buy good batteries, keep them warm, lavish attention on them and don't
leave them to go hungry.

George

 

[Robert Morein]

you know what they say about people who assume.

Let me make a point that may have meaning to you, if you are not a malicious
individual.
If you do a Google Groups search by my name, you'll see I have posted 11,700
times. I do not use sockpuppets; these are the sum of my posts. A similar
Google search for you indicates that you have posted 245 times, though, of
course, you may use other identities as well.

My point is, I'll ask my question, regardless of intimidation. I've run
across some pretty nasty people, and it's never deterred me. If you don't
approve of my question, then I suggest, for the sake of the other people who
use this group, you not draw us into this kind of exchange. Even if you do
not approve of my question, or consider it stupid, there is absolutely no
deterrent value in your replies. If you let my question alone, and there are
no responses, the thread will quickly end, without unncessary clutter.

This is what you should do if you respect the needs of other people who use
this group.

If your jibes are for your personal entertainment, or if you are an
exhibtionist, then this will mean nothing to you.

 

[Robert Morein]

[snip]

Buy good batteries, keep them warm, lavish attention on them and don't
leave them to go hungry.

George

Good advice to anyone, George.
However, I'm trying to find out why Northwest Energy Storage dropped the
Surrette line. They claimed a 50% failure rate.
Sometimes a company loses quality control quite suddenly.

 

[no useful info]

Good advice to anyone, George.
However, I'm trying to find out why Northwest Energy Storage dropped the
Surrette line. They claimed a 50% failure rate.
Sometimes a company loses quality control quite suddenly.

doi, asked and answered by you and yet you keep asking anyway.

 

[no useful info]

you know what they say about people who assume.

[/QUOTE]

I see that you don't know the answer to this either.

Let me make a point that may have meaning to you, if you are not a malicious
individual.
If you do a Google Groups search by my name, you'll see I have posted 11,700
times. I do not use sockpuppets; these are the sum of my posts. A similar
Google search for you indicates that you have posted 245 times, though, of
course, you may use other identities as well.

I go for quality, you apparently go for quantity.

My point is, I'll ask my question, regardless of intimidation.

intimidation? words, questions and responses intimidate you?

I've run
across some pretty nasty people, and it's never deterred me.

hooray for you

If you don't approve of my question, then I suggest, for the sake of the other people who
use this group, you not draw us into this kind of exchange.

I love your question. it demonstrates your inability to move forward
without every single detail laid out for you. even given all the help
one could expect you haven't managed to draft a single set of plans so
you could ask an intelligent question. several of these might be on the
order of "would marine plywood be more resistant to the vagaries of the
batteries environment" "which acid resistand paint would work best" "is
it hard to fiberglass plywood" "are brass screws acid resistant". nope
you want to know NEC compliance issues and you can't even acquire the
free NEC pertinent codes to look at.

Even if you do not approve of my question, or consider it stupid, there is absolutely no
deterrent value in your replies.

sure there is. you might actually learn to ask specific questions
instead of vague generalities that you won't research. maybe you should
just join freecycle.org and ask for a custom battery box.

If you let my question alone, and there are
no responses, the thread will quickly end, without unncessary clutter.

of course with the vast quantity of posts you have made, you might just
take your own advice.

This is what you should do if you respect the needs of other people who use
this group.

If your jibes are for your personal entertainment, or if you are an
exhibtionist,

exhibitionist? all those posts and you don't even know how to flame
properly.

then this will mean nothing to you.

I suppose your next post will challenge me to not respond to you. LOL.

 

[Robert Morein]

[snip]
respect the needs of other people who use

exhibitionist? all those posts and you don't even know how to flame
properly.

I'm not interested in flaming you.

I suppose your next post will challenge me to not respond to you. LOL.

Not at all.
But why don't we wind it down, for the sake of others?

 

[Robert Morein]

doi, asked and answered by you and yet you keep asking anyway.

Alright now. Relax a little.

 

[no useful info]

[snip]
respect the needs of other people who use

exhibitionist? all those posts and you don't even know how to flame
properly.

I'm not interested in flaming you.

oh damn, I'm so disappointed

Not at all.
But why don't we wind it down, for the sake of others?

I don't see anyone complaining

 

[George Ghio]

I was interested in ordering The Surrette Solar 1T L16 Model S460
http://www.nwes.com/batteries-II.htm#Trojan 6 Volt Batteries

Surprisingly, the dealer had a very negative opinion about the
batteries,
citing a 50% recent failure rate, and essentially refused to sell them
except for replacement purposes. She's going to take them off her
website.
She recommended that I pick up the Trojan L16 locally!

Occasionally, a manufacturer's QC goes to pot suddenly and completely.

Has this happened with Surrette? Can anyone provide any recent
experience,
either way?

[snip]

Buy good batteries, keep them warm, lavish attention on them and don't
leave them to go hungry.

George

Good advice to anyone, George.
However, I'm trying to find out why Northwest Energy Storage dropped the
Surrette line. They claimed a 50% failure rate.
Sometimes a company loses quality control quite suddenly.

The thing is that no battery manufacturer can control the end use of
their product. Could just be that 50% of the suppliers customers don't
have a clue. Does Surrette replace failed batteries? That is of greater
interest if one drops dead. My self I would only use golf cart batteries
for their intended job. Golf.

You might consider Exide batteries. I have seen sets of them still in
use after twenty years. (With proper care of course)

George

 

[Robert Morein]

In article <[email protected]>,

I was interested in ordering The Surrette Solar 1T L16 Model S460
http://www.nwes.com/batteries-II.htm#Trojan 6 Volt Batteries

Surprisingly, the dealer had a very negative opinion about the
batteries,
citing a 50% recent failure rate, and essentially refused to

sell
them

except for replacement purposes. She's going to take them off her
website.
She recommended that I pick up the Trojan L16 locally!

Occasionally, a manufacturer's QC goes to pot suddenly and completely.

Has this happened with Surrette? Can anyone provide any recent
experience,
either way?


[snip]

Buy good batteries, keep them warm, lavish attention on them and don't
leave them to go hungry.

George

Good advice to anyone, George.
However, I'm trying to find out why Northwest Energy Storage dropped the
Surrette line. They claimed a 50% failure rate.
Sometimes a company loses quality control quite suddenly.

The thing is that no battery manufacturer can control the end use of
their product. Could just be that 50% of the suppliers customers don't
have a clue.

There is nothing unusual about the supplier. If they have that problem,
every supplier would have the problem.
If that were true, no one would sell batteries.

Does Surrette replace failed batteries? That is of greater

interest if one drops dead.

It's very expensive for the enduser to send a battery back to Nova Scotia.
Perhaps half the cost of the battery. Warranties are less useful to me than
proven reliablility.

My self I would only use golf cart batteries
for their intended job. Golf.

I agree, but a Surrette is not a golf cart battery.

You might consider Exide batteries. I have seen sets of them still in
use after twenty years. (With proper care of course)

George

George,
I used to know the market forecast manager for Exide, and HE would never
buy an Exide battery. I've used them in my cars, where they leaked.

 

[Robert Morein]

Robert,

I have Surrette's and speak or write from time to time with Simon Wiles,
who is their Quality Systems Manager in the Nova Scotia plant. He's been
pretty up front with me.

I would recommend you contact him yourself and see what he says.

His email is (munged for the harvesters): s&i&m&o#n# at s&u$r^r!e*t*t#e dot
c$o%m!# or telephone 800-681-9914 or 902-597-4003

It may be what George said about end user abuse. Although if that were the
case I'd wonder why the Trojans apparently haven't been having as much
problems. It may also be that Surrette is not doing as good a job on their
L16 size as on their larger cells.

But for the system you've been describing, I think the L16's are somewhat
light weight. I have read that one of the caveats of battery banks is that
you want to have as few parallel strings as possible. The more strings you
have in parallel, the more problems with unevenness of charging. The
'best' configuration would be where each cell has the required Ah capacity.
Two strings is probably OK, too.


-- ron (off the grid in Downeast Maine)

Thanks for the info, Ron. I wonder if he would actually admit a QC problem.
It's almost a condition of employment that one has to stonewall.

 

[Robert Morein]

Well, it's an 800 number, so you've got very little to lose. He's told me
of problems and also how they've corrected them.

Besides, I don't think you should be using L16's anyway

Seriously, what else should I be looking at?

 

[George Ghio]

Snip;

There is nothing unusual about the supplier. If they have that problem,
every supplier would have the problem.
If that were true, no one would sell batteries.

Does Surrette replace failed batteries? That is of greater

It's very expensive for the enduser to send a battery back to Nova Scotia.
Perhaps half the cost of the battery. Warranties are less useful to me than
proven reliablility.

I agree, but a Surrette is not a golf cart battery.


George,
I used to know the market forecast manager for Exide, and HE would never
buy an Exide battery. I've used them in my cars, where they leaked.

I wouldn't put one in my car either. But Telstra used Exide deep cycle
batteries for years in their exchanges and remote installations. People
lined up to buy them from Telstra. The last set I replaced for a
customer was 26 years old.

If Surette don't meet you needs/ expectations look elswhere. Best advice
I can give:

One set of 2 volt cells of the correct Ah rating. NO paralelle strings.
Treat them like your favorite pet.

George

 

[Robert Morein]

Oops!
Just giving "no useful info" the jibe."

Thanks for following my ruminations so carefully .
Since that post, I have changed the inverter to 24V, a Xantrex SW 4024.
And as I've read the newsgroup posts and read app notes, I now understand
the value of a single string.
Initially, parallel strings seemed to have an advantage: if one string
developed a shorted cell, I could simply disconnect the string and continue
operating off the other one.
However, there seems to be general recognition that the larger the battery,
the more reliable it will be, as plate thickness increases.

The primary concern is ease of handling. I don't want to kill myself getting
these things down into the basement. 130 lbs/battery is tops.

Have you looked at Solar-One batteriies? http://www.hupsolarone.com/

 

[no useful info]

Oops!
Just giving "no useful info" the jibe."

I'm sure your provider will be overjoyed to know that you have been
forging posts with my email addy

 

[Robert Morein]

Ease of handling is an issue. That's why mine are out in the garage. Also
for safety. I saw no advantage to having them in the basement, and many
disadvantages.

My inverters are out there, too, for noise issues.

And even here in Maine, I have no problem with the battery room getting too
cold. As a matter of fact, I have more of a problem with heat in the
summer, than with cold in the winter. But I do have a small heater in the
room "just in case". But fully charged batteries will not freeze at
temperatures encountered in the NE, even if outside. I think the freezing
point is well below -40°. You do lose some capacity at the lower
temperatures.

I've not looked at other lead-acid batteries in any detail.


-- ron (off the grid in Downeast Maine)

But how much usable capacity do you have, given that as they discharge, the
freeze at higher temperature?