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Strategies for Buying Test Equipment off Ebay

R

Rich Grise

Jan 1, 1970
0
On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 13:22:46 -0700, D from BC
Here's a few observations I've been thinking about when buying test
equipment off Ebay.. [snip]
2) Bidding soon may attract other buyers...Bidding late and there's a
risk of losing the bid.
[snip]
My one and only experience buying from eBay...

I found some way to bid that set a maximum I was willing to offer but
all that showed was my automatic tracking bid.

I got the item WAY under my maximum.

(USPS is CHEAP.)

I'm still a newbie on Ebay and I think I've witnessed this..
I was observing bids on an item for sale. (Not me selling)
I saw one buyer do 5 consecutive bids for some reason..
I think I know why now..
Perhaps it was to incrementally beat the tracking bid.
Maybe it was like this for that bidder...
Bid..then response..lost bid...
Rebid...then response...lost bid...
And cycling until the that bidder is able to counter the other bidders
max bid value..
I think that's what's going on..
If so..then doing a max bid near closing should get interesting..
Gets kinda like a lottery..

This is called "sniping", and people have been doing it for years.
Two or three people will be bidding against each other, and each tries
to be the last one in with the winning bid.

The last thing I bid on, I was the only bidder. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich
 
J

Jim Yanik

Jan 1, 1970
0
Comments? Additions? Arguments? Observations?
Experiences?


D from BC

Ebay is a crapshoot. Too many people get auction fever.

(heck,you probably have better odds playing blackjack in Vegas)
 
J

Jim Yanik

Jan 1, 1970
0
Here's a few observations I've been thinking about when buying test
equipment off Ebay..
[snip]

2) Bidding soon may attract other buyers...Bidding late and there's a
risk of losing the bid.
[snip]

My one and only experience buying from eBay...

I found some way to bid that set a maximum I was willing to offer but
all that showed was my automatic tracking bid.

I got the item WAY under my maximum.

(USPS is CHEAP.)

...Jim Thompson

one thing to worry about is whether the seller packs the item adequately.
Carriers will not cover poorly packed items.
Insurance may be useless if the item is rare and highly desired.

One hint is to use plastic bags of plastic peanuts packed around the
item,instead of loose peanuts;with loose P-nuts,the item just migrates to
the bottom of the box and gets the full shock anytime the box is dropped.
With bags of P-nuts,the item stays protected as originally packed.
And you need a box with at least 4 inches of space around the item,on EVERY
side;I've seen many an instrument with smashed knobs,bent shafts because
the packer put it in a too-small box.

(personal experience from Tektronix shiping and receiving!)
 
J

Jim Yanik

Jan 1, 1970
0
On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 13:22:46 -0700, D from BC

Here's a few observations I've been thinking about when buying test
equipment off Ebay..

[snip]

2) Bidding soon may attract other buyers...Bidding late and there's a
risk of losing the bid.

[snip]

My one and only experience buying from eBay...

I found some way to bid that set a maximum I was willing to offer but
all that showed was my automatic tracking bid.

Ebay always works that way. It automatically bids for you, some small
amount over the next highest bidder, up to your maximum.
I got the item WAY under my maximum.

That's pretty common. But it's still best to "snipe", put in your
maximum 30 seconds before it closes.

John

Good idea.

...Jim Thompson

you'll find that often the bids only start rising in the last half-hour.

IIRC,Ebay also has an anti-snipe provision.
 
D

D from BC

Jan 1, 1970
0
I've bought shedloads of stuff off Ebay, both on auction or "Buy it now". Be
it England, Europe, US, Hong Kong, China, wherever, no problem. Best thing
out since sliced bread.
An hour ago, "won" 33 years worth of issues of the old "Electronic
Engineering" magazine. Seems I was the only bidder :). There's no way on
earth I could have come across such nerdy items as these, by searching local
newspaper ads etc.

My own personal thoughts are ...
Equipment resellers are there to run a business. They make a profit or die.
Hence their prices will/must always be comparatively exorbitant. Stay clear
of them. Play the waiting game. Buy, only if you've a customer willing to
pay for that item as part of your work.
It's obvious who the resellers are, as apart from the high initial bid
price, or silly "buy it now" price, the liability issues mean their item
descriptions will be minimal yet correct, with a lot of body text dealing
with conditions of sale. One UK company has now put the same piece of
stupidly priced electronic junk through Ebay at least 50 times. A sane
individual would have binned it 12 months ago. From a business POV it can be
worth it, if they catch the unique someone looking for that exact item. Then
that someone is happy and satisfied.
Don't worry too much about bidding against equipment resellers. They just
cannot profitably afford to pay the prices you as an individual are liable
to bid up to. You know you paid a worthwhile price, the reseller shakes
his/her head knowing they cannot compete, as they could not add anywhere
near a useable profit margin, which must be >>100% to allow for the risk and
other factors

If you've the skills, then buy the stuff plainly offered as 'broken' 'won't
power up' or 'needs repair'. Only do this after you've located the
availability of a circuit diagram (schematic!). 99.9% of potential bidders
avoid these items like the plague and you'll only be up against a couple of
other hardened enthusiasts. You'll get it for a song, and a couple of hours
work (usually :) has it running again.
Do NOT under any circumstances bid for newish items that say "fails self
test".

Unsure of a good price to bid?, then always look over the 'completed items'
listings. Items such a particular 'scope model will turn up regularly,
(moreso in the states with it's vastly increased market size). There can be
say a 5:1 ratio on final prices but it's a good marker.

There's no 'ideal seller', as good stuff at a good price can come from
anywhere. If anything and afeared of the unknown, then the guy selling his
personal kit is a good starter. He'll describe it with great accuracy,
explain why it's for sale and how well he's looked after it. If he can cause
you to shed a tear for him then all's the better. And of course, a lot of
other bidders will now jump in and the final price will be top whack.
(that's how to auction stuff!)

Be leery over the 'don't understand what it is', or 'lights come on when
plugged in' type descriptions. Most are genuine, some are BS descriptions of
junk. Look at their other stuff for sale, see if it's consistent.

Ignore the "classic/vintage/collectable" tags, They're worthless. The person
is clueless and selling passed on junk. Bid accordingly.

Work out the maximum price you want to pay. Don't bid, just regard the
goods as being on display. It's essential you keep a daily eye on the item's
'view counter'. The rate of change of this shows the level of interest and
what you will finally be up against. Any bid placed early on unfortunately
shows that someone values the item. Sheep instinct then takes over with
more and more bidders turning up.
The problem with early bids is that people have time to think and mull over
how much they -really really- want the kit.

Assuming no or low bids, then two thirds of the way through the sale put a
bid in of half your final maximum. The idea is to scare off the casual
bidders looking for a bargain. They'll find they are constantly "outbid" by
Ebay as they ratchet up their own bids in minor increments and then lose
interest. More persistent, hardy individuals will ratchet up to a 'highest
bid' position and then feel smug. Ignore these, they must be dealt with at
the end-of-days.

Ensure the radio controlled clock has a good battery. Log into Ebay and the
item. During the last couple of minutes refresh the page regularly.
Watch for the late bids coming in. These are from those who have lost their
nerve and are now exposed. Now watch the bidding list to see if anyone's put
in a big bid at some point such that it is knocking the others down.

During the last 60 seconds you now are up against machine software bids
'sniping' and the seasoned players. At T-20 seconds put your maximum bid in.
It may not be enough. If you want, you have just enough time left to try the
extra 10% you knew the item was -really really- worth.

If you lose, then no problem. Someone was determined to buy the item at a
price you aren't prepared to pay.

Late breaking news ...
Goody!. A HP 8640B has just turned up. I've been looking for summat like
this for a month. Very low phase noise synth. Even better, it needs "repair"
and even better I've already a circuit.
The pic' is damned poor but the style and quantity of stick-on labels are
suggesting ex UK military, which is a good sign that it's had a decent
service history and may be complete internally.
Tally Ho!.

A very good read.. Its new stuff to me..
Ebay seemed so simple at first..but surprise!
The Art of Ebay :)

Thanks.

D from BC
 
J

Jim Yanik

Jan 1, 1970
0
DJ Delorie said:
Gah, I hope so. It's all tubes and silver solder, and has about a
1MHz bandwidth. Can't even look at video signals with it. I've got a
cheap parallel-port DSO that has more range and capabilities.

The 560 series was obsolete at least 15 years ago.(according to TEK)
 
J

Jim Yanik

Jan 1, 1970
0
Well, it was 40 years ago.

John

I think it's first debut was around 40 yrs ago.
AFAIK,the 560s came out around 1960,the early 60's.
TEKs definition of "obsolete" was 9 yrs after the last TEK catalog
appearance. (it's much shorter now.)
I think the 560s were still being sold in the early 70's.
 
P

Paul Mathews

Jan 1, 1970
0
A very good read.. Its new stuff to me..
Ebay seemed so simple at first..but surprise!
The Art of Ebay :)

Thanks.

D from BC- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I've had very good luck buying test gear on ebay. Best score: brand
new TDS5034B with deep memory option for $4600 from seller
NewarkInOne. ALWAYS snipe. The main problems I've had were with
inadequate packaging for shipment. Offer to pay more, including
overnight or 2-day shipping: packages are handled more gently and
fewer times.
Be prepared to do some contact cleaning on older gear. Output stages
on signal and pulse generators are sometimes burned out. Demand a
partial refund from the seller....often successful. However, such
problems are usually easy to troubleshoot and to repair.
Paul Mathews
 
D

D from BC

Jan 1, 1970
0
It's all but hopeless. Not entirely, but so close to entirely as to be
hardly worth bothering. I've been trying for a few pieces lately, as it
happens, and most get sniped up in the last few minutes (or hours) at
outrageous prices, at least from my POV. If you have mucho moolah, you
don't need to troll there, but you can invoke the "bid absurdly high"
method, and you might get lucky like Jim, if nobody else bothers to go
after the item you want.

For research purposes of what something might likely go for, "search
closed auctions" for what these things sold or did not sell for recently
and decide if you like that price. You might also see the item you are
bidding on now, that "sold" last week - so it's either been returned, or
the sale was a fiction...you can also see the endlessly re-listed
overpriced ones NOT selling, and infer what you like about those sellers.

Low starting price makes little difference - unless the seller
mis-describes it to the point that the usual suspects don't notice it,
but you somehow do, the price will be yanked up to non-bargain levels by
the end, generally.

"Picture is not of actual item" is a red flag, and lack of "Picture IS
of actual item" is at least an orange flag. Or so I infer from poring
over listings.

Shipping (& handling) is suspiciously high from so many vendors. Many of
those that do offer returns clearly make money every time they sell the
same object and get it returned.

Yet, finding stuff locally is virtually impossible (in 5 years, I bought
one whopping 25MHz scope and let a single other scope go by - I've never
seen anything 100MHZ or higher. I tried for 6 months or more to find a
used sweep/function generator locally and failed. I don't want a new
Chinese version, and I can't find/afford a new non-Chinese version).

I finally did get a S/F-G, but nothing else "auction" has worked out.
I've not gotten several counters, for instance. Since I am operating on
a small budget, I keep hoping to find one that's reasonable and goes
under the radar, but it has not happened yet, and I won't get bid up "to
compete" - sheesh, saw another item which was on "buy it now" for $X go
for $X+6, when the listing itself clearly indicated that the seller had
lots of them and as many as the buyer might want could be gotten for $X.

Why the *b*y??
Is *b*y scanning Usenet for some reason?

Yes...On occasion, I've noticed some weird shipping and handling
charges.
$40.00 UPS and $99.00 USPS ??? For items of same size and weight to
Canada.

I did get lucky on Epray and got a brand new analog scope 100MHz
(chinese)
2 ch, still in production, for ~$500.00CAD.
2 100Mhz probes included.
I was the only bidder??? What a fluke! :)
I received an email from the manufactures distributor with a quote of
$1380.00. Ha!

I've only used the scope for a few hours and no POOF yet :)

It's still got that new electronics smell :p


D from BC
 
D

Don Lancaster

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jim said:
On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 13:31:29 -0700, Jim Thompson


On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 13:22:46 -0700, D from BC


Here's a few observations I've been thinking about when buying test
equipment off Ebay..


[snip]

2) Bidding soon may attract other buyers...Bidding late and there's a
risk of losing the bid.


[snip]

My one and only experience buying from eBay...

I found some way to bid that set a maximum I was willing to offer but
all that showed was my automatic tracking bid.

Ebay always works that way. It automatically bids for you, some small
amount over the next highest bidder, up to your maximum.


I got the item WAY under my maximum.

That's pretty common. But it's still best to "snipe", put in your
maximum 30 seconds before it closes.

John

Good idea.

...Jim Thompson


you'll find that often the bids only start rising in the last half-hour.

IIRC,Ebay also has an anti-snipe provision.


100 percent of all intelligent eBay bidders snipe.

By definition.

http://www.tinaja.com/glib/ebaysell.pdf



--
Many thanks,

Don Lancaster voice phone: (928)428-4073
Synergetics 3860 West First Street Box 809 Thatcher, AZ 85552
rss: http://www.tinaja.com/whtnu.xml email: [email protected]

Please visit my GURU's LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com
 
D

D from BC

Jan 1, 1970
0
Here's a few observations I've been thinking about when buying test
equipment off Ebay..
[snip]

2) Bidding soon may attract other buyers...Bidding late and there's a
risk of losing the bid.
[snip]

My one and only experience buying from eBay...

I found some way to bid that set a maximum I was willing to offer but
all that showed was my automatic tracking bid.

I got the item WAY under my maximum.

(USPS is CHEAP.)

...Jim Thompson

one thing to worry about is whether the seller packs the item adequately.
Carriers will not cover poorly packed items.
Insurance may be useless if the item is rare and highly desired.

One hint is to use plastic bags of plastic peanuts packed around the
item,instead of loose peanuts;with loose P-nuts,the item just migrates to
the bottom of the box and gets the full shock anytime the box is dropped.
With bags of P-nuts,the item stays protected as originally packed.
And you need a box with at least 4 inches of space around the item,on EVERY
side;I've seen many an instrument with smashed knobs,bent shafts because
the packer put it in a too-small box.

(personal experience from Tektronix shiping and receiving!)

There's a letter to the seller....

Dear seller...
Please surround the item on all sides with individual bags of peanuts.
Thank You
:)

D from BC
 
D

D from BC

Jan 1, 1970
0
[snip]
I've had very good luck buying test gear on ebay. Best score: brand
new TDS5034B with deep memory option for $4600 from seller
NewarkInOne. ALWAYS snipe. The main problems I've had were with
inadequate packaging for shipment. Offer to pay more, including
overnight or 2-day shipping: packages are handled more gently and
fewer times.
Be prepared to do some contact cleaning on older gear. Output stages
on signal and pulse generators are sometimes burned out. Demand a
partial refund from the seller....often successful. However, such
problems are usually easy to troubleshoot and to repair.
Paul Mathews

A used test equipment site has this listed as $9600.00!
8M mem depth.

I checked prices before posting the link..hee hee :)
http://stores.ebay.com/Newark-Outlet


D from BC
 
D

Don Lancaster

Jan 1, 1970
0
D said:
On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 13:22:46 -0700, D from BC


Here's a few observations I've been thinking about when buying test
equipment off Ebay..


[snip]

2) Bidding soon may attract other buyers...Bidding late and there's a
risk of losing the bid.


[snip]

My one and only experience buying from eBay...

I found some way to bid that set a maximum I was willing to offer but
all that showed was my automatic tracking bid.

I got the item WAY under my maximum.

(USPS is CHEAP.)

...Jim Thompson

one thing to worry about is whether the seller packs the item adequately.
Carriers will not cover poorly packed items.
Insurance may be useless if the item is rare and highly desired.

One hint is to use plastic bags of plastic peanuts packed around the
item,instead of loose peanuts;with loose P-nuts,the item just migrates to
the bottom of the box and gets the full shock anytime the box is dropped.
With bags of P-nuts,the item stays protected as originally packed.
And you need a box with at least 4 inches of space around the item,on EVERY
side;I've seen many an instrument with smashed knobs,bent shafts because
the packer put it in a too-small box.

(personal experience from Tektronix shiping and receiving!)


There's a letter to the seller....

Dear seller...
Please surround the item on all sides with individual bags of peanuts.
Thank You
:)

D from BC

If seller did not contractually agree in writing to this ahead of time,
they are under NO OBLIGATION WHATSOEVER to do so.

http://www.tinaja.com/auct01.asp


--
Many thanks,

Don Lancaster voice phone: (928)428-4073
Synergetics 3860 West First Street Box 809 Thatcher, AZ 85552
rss: http://www.tinaja.com/whtnu.xml email: [email protected]

Please visit my GURU's LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com
 
D

Don Lancaster

Jan 1, 1970
0
D said:
[snip]
I've had very good luck buying test gear on ebay. Best score: brand
new TDS5034B with deep memory option for $4600 from seller
NewarkInOne. ALWAYS snipe. The main problems I've had were with
inadequate packaging for shipment. Offer to pay more, including
overnight or 2-day shipping: packages are handled more gently and
fewer times.
Be prepared to do some contact cleaning on older gear. Output stages
on signal and pulse generators are sometimes burned out. Demand a
partial refund from the seller....often successful. However, such
problems are usually easy to troubleshoot and to repair.
Paul Mathews


A used test equipment site has this listed as $9600.00!
8M mem depth.

I checked prices before posting the link..hee hee :)
http://stores.ebay.com/Newark-Outlet


D from BC
Published prices of used test equipment sites are a total fantasy.

They are usually the MAXIMUM they are willing to accept.


--
Many thanks,

Don Lancaster voice phone: (928)428-4073
Synergetics 3860 West First Street Box 809 Thatcher, AZ 85552
rss: http://www.tinaja.com/whtnu.xml email: [email protected]

Please visit my GURU's LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com
 
D

D from BC

Jan 1, 1970
0
D said:
[snip]
I've had very good luck buying test gear on ebay. Best score: brand
new TDS5034B with deep memory option for $4600 from seller
NewarkInOne. ALWAYS snipe. The main problems I've had were with
inadequate packaging for shipment. Offer to pay more, including
overnight or 2-day shipping: packages are handled more gently and
fewer times.
Be prepared to do some contact cleaning on older gear. Output stages
on signal and pulse generators are sometimes burned out. Demand a
partial refund from the seller....often successful. However, such
problems are usually easy to troubleshoot and to repair.
Paul Mathews


A used test equipment site has this listed as $9600.00!
8M mem depth.

I checked prices before posting the link..hee hee :)
http://stores.ebay.com/Newark-Outlet


D from BC
Published prices of used test equipment sites are a total fantasy.

They are usually the MAXIMUM they are willing to accept.

Ok...How about a distributor of new equipment
http://www.e-sonic.com/acc/products.aspx?command=detail&partID=TDS5034B&partIDExt=480

TDS5034B
10kpt
Price: $9635.12
+ 3914.26 for 16M of memory!!! Holy @#@#!!
http://www.e-sonic.com/acc/products.aspx?command=detail&partID=TDS5034B+3M&partIDExt=480

Those used test equipment resellers are sharky :(
D from BC
 
J

John Larkin

Jan 1, 1970
0
On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 13:31:29 -0700, Jim Thompson

On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 13:22:46 -0700, D from BC

Here's a few observations I've been thinking about when buying test
equipment off Ebay..

[snip]

2) Bidding soon may attract other buyers...Bidding late and there's a
risk of losing the bid.

[snip]

My one and only experience buying from eBay...

I found some way to bid that set a maximum I was willing to offer but
all that showed was my automatic tracking bid.

Ebay always works that way. It automatically bids for you, some small
amount over the next highest bidder, up to your maximum.


I got the item WAY under my maximum.

That's pretty common. But it's still best to "snipe", put in your
maximum 30 seconds before it closes.

John

Good idea.

...Jim Thompson

you'll find that often the bids only start rising in the last half-hour.

IIRC,Ebay also has an anti-snipe provision.

I usually bid 30 seconds before closing. It seems to work.

John
 
J

John Larkin

Jan 1, 1970
0
I think it's first debut was around 40 yrs ago.
AFAIK,the 560s came out around 1960,the early 60's.
TEKs definition of "obsolete" was 9 yrs after the last TEK catalog
appearance. (it's much shorter now.)
I think the 560s were still being sold in the early 70's.

Well, they were practically obsolete when they were first introduced.
I never like the 560 series. They were a stripped-down version of the
superb 540-series scopes: they were small, heavy, slow, and ran very
hot. The crt's were nowhere as good as the 540 tubes, fuzzy focus and
strange unblanking behavior.

John
 
W

Wayne P. Muckleroy

Jan 1, 1970
0
Look for postings that say "AS-IS" or "FOR PARTS ONLY." Many times, the
seller puts these expressions in to cover his/her ass. This is true for many
of the large surplus junk e-stores.

Usually, they just have so much stuff, they don't even have time to plug it
in. Many people are totally against buying like this, but I have gotten some
VERY good deals on units that work fine. Sometimes, I am the only bidder and
the price I pay is less than the shipping costs.

But be aware, you should pay no more that 20% of the cost of a "good" unit,
with a warranty. That way, if it truly is junk, you haven't lost much.
 
J

Jean-Yves

Jan 1, 1970
0
[QUOTE="DJ Delorie said:
is that a joke ? extend it 5 minutes until everyone is done , thats
not fair for a buyer it just lines the pocket of sellers by
exploiting the gotta have its and the emotional bidders who do not
really have a max value in there head

If buyers are willing to pay more, they should have a chance to do so.
The current system allows a robo-bidder to outbid you within a split
second of the end of auction, giving you no opportunity to rebid.
Removing the "last split second" from auctions also discourages
robo-bidders, giving the humans a better chance of winning.[/QUOTE]

if you bed high enought (remember the more you can bet...) the robot
will not be able to outbid you...
if you bet the actual bed plus $1, you will be outbed !

I saw that the final price for an object is almost always twice the
price it was half an hour before the end of the auction...
 
R

Robert Baer

Jan 1, 1970
0
D said:
Here's a few observations I've been thinking about when buying test
equipment off Ebay..

1) Not only am I bidding against people that actually want to use the
test equipment but I'm also bidding against used equipment resellers
buying test equipment to resell (on Ebay)!!??
Lets say somebody might not care about the money selling item X.. The
seller creates a starting bid of $100.00..Then a used equipment buyer
blows away everybody with a $1000.00 bid and then sells it back on
ebay parked forever at $1500.00 until a sucker comes along!!

2) Bidding soon may attract other buyers...Bidding late and there's a
risk of losing the bid.

3) I suspect UPS still has the highest brokerage rates. Using the USPS
is cheaper.

4) I seem to dodge used equipment resellers. They know their sh*t and
can appraise for optimum profit. They may even fish with ridiculous
prices on depreciated and used items. It's a profit game.
You get what you pay for.

5) I suspect the best prices are from those that don't care too much
about money and would just like a new home for they're cherished
oscilloscope. Unlike the sharks from the used equipment shops.

6) Not to bash the used equipment shops too much, they are calibrating
and testing. They also have the capability to scrap units for parts to
restore other units.
Ironically, their prices are useful to roughly guess at the savings
you get by buying from somebody else.

7) I suspect better prices are from those that are selling due to
upgrading, moving, company closure, gave up electronics, demo units
and let's not forget the possibility of stolen goods.

8) On occasion, some sellers (junk buyers) haven't a clue what they
have and just sell at a stupid price.. That's the best. Especially
when wise used test equipment buyers are too fat with mountains of
equipment and can't force the bid high.

Comments? Additions? Arguments? Observations?
Experiences?


D from BC
Not related to strategy, but:
1) If you are buying, the seller might opt out and refuse to send the
unit as well as refuse to respond; e-bay does not care.
2) If you are a seller, the winner might decide you are charging too
much, giving lies like the unit weighs one-tenth of actual and the
shipping is one fifth of actual (at any weight) - and so refuse to pay
anything; again e-bay does not care.
3) If the advertized items are obviously and provably stolen, e-bay does
not care.
4) It is a fact that all e-bay cares about is money.
"Contract"? There is none when e-bay is involved.
 
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