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Store ~100 gallons gasoline?

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William P.N. Smith

Jan 1, 1970
0
Is there any easy way for the average homeowner to store around 100
gallons of gasoline? Obviously, 20 5-gallon cans are expensive and
difficult to store, my many plastic cans bulge in the summer (which
makes me a bit nervous), is there anything else I can do? I'm
envisioning a 275-gallon fuel oil tank with a transfer pump to fill
the cars from, and regular gasoline deliveries, is that something
do-able without jumping thru lots of hoops (double tanks, yaddah,
yaddah, yaddah...)

Thanks for any thoughts!
 
E

Ecnerwal

Jan 1, 1970
0
Is there any easy way for the average homeowner to store around 100
gallons of gasoline?

2 55 gallon drums, and a drum pump, vent valve, etc - but you still may
have a problem actually getting fuel delivered. Also, the fire
department may not like it, & your insurance company may not like it.
Think about a house fire and the reason will be obvious. A typical farm
setup puts the fuel storage away from other buildings to reduce the
hazard.

IIRC, fuel oil tanks are not suited to gasoline, but I could be wrong.
 
William said:
Is there any easy way for the average homeowner to store around 100
gallons of gasoline? Obviously, 20 5-gallon cans are expensive and
difficult to store, my many plastic cans bulge in the summer (which
makes me a bit nervous), is there anything else I can do? I'm
envisioning a 275-gallon fuel oil tank with a transfer pump to fill
the cars from, and regular gasoline deliveries, is that something
do-able without jumping thru lots of hoops (double tanks, yaddah,
yaddah, yaddah...)

Unless you live in a rural area, I think 20 used 5 gallon NATO "Jerry Cans"
stored in a ventilated shed away from your house is your best bet. The NATO
cans are sturdy metal with rubber gaskets so they don't leak fumes and don't
bulge (much).

cheaperthandirt.com is a good source of the surplus cans. You can order
them 9 at a time from them and don't need to pay extra shipping charges.
 
W

wmbjk

Jan 1, 1970
0
Is there any easy way for the average homeowner to store around 100
gallons of gasoline? Obviously, 20 5-gallon cans are expensive and
difficult to store, my many plastic cans bulge in the summer (which
makes me a bit nervous), is there anything else I can do? I'm
envisioning a 275-gallon fuel oil tank with a transfer pump to fill
the cars from, and regular gasoline deliveries, is that something
do-able without jumping thru lots of hoops (double tanks, yaddah,
yaddah, yaddah...)

Thanks for any thoughts!

These search results might give you some ideas.
http://tinyurl.com/7x8ef Rules vary from state to state. Transfer
pumps are affordable http://tinyurl.com/5c7kx I have one like this
for diesel http://tinyurl.com/4qwqk You sometimes see them without the
hoses for about $80. But I expect these cheapie versions wouldn't last
long with gasoline.

Wayne
 
V

Vaughn

Jan 1, 1970
0
M.M. said:
Might want to watch for condensation problems if using 55 gal drums..
We did that in houston once during the last gas shortage and got water
in gas...M.M.

Good point but... Keep the drums sealed up tight and there is no way that
moisture can get inside to condense. A little alcohol also will solve the
problem.

Vaughn
 
B

Bruce in Alaska

Jan 1, 1970
0
Is there any easy way for the average homeowner to store around 100
gallons of gasoline? Obviously, 20 5-gallon cans are expensive and
difficult to store, my many plastic cans bulge in the summer (which
makes me a bit nervous), is there anything else I can do? I'm
envisioning a 275-gallon fuel oil tank with a transfer pump to fill
the cars from, and regular gasoline deliveries, is that something
do-able without jumping thru lots of hoops (double tanks, yaddah,
yaddah, yaddah...)

Thanks for any thoughts!

Most Municipalities that have Fire Departments have VERY Strict
Regulations for Gasoline Storage of more than 5 gallons, due to
it's low Flash Temp and Hi Flamability. Before you get to far,
you need to contact the Fire Marshal in your jurasdiction, and get the
regs. 55 Gallon Drums work very well for us bush folks, but
you need to rotate your fuel if your using Gasoline, as it tends to
get gummy with age.

Bruce in alaska
 
B

Bruce in Alaska

Jan 1, 1970
0
M.M. said:
Might want to watch for condensation problems if using 55 gal drums..
We did that in houston once during the last gas shortage and got water
in gas...M.M.

No condensation, if you keep the Drum sealed. Just allow for heat
expansion.


Bruce in alaska
 
nbaxley said:
I have a 20'x30' old shed that I'm turning into a office/workshop.
The office will occupy a 8'x15' corner of the workshop and be walled
off and insulated from the rest of the workshop. I was given a fairly
large wood burning stove by an uncle and I'm wondering how best to use
it to heat both office and workshop... Right now I have no insulation...

Wood is work. More insulation means less work...
...This is in central Illiois so the winters can get pretty cold.

NREL says Peoria is 27.0 on an average December day, with a 34.6 F
average daily max... 830 Btu/ft^2 of sun falls on a south wall.
The roof is a fairly flat slant and pitches to the north only, it's
just a one-way slant whatever that's called...

Maybe you have a 10'x30' south wall. With a layer of polycarbonate glazing
(about $1.50/ft^2 in 4' wide rolls, with a 10 year guarantee), you might
collect 0.9x830 = 747 Btu/ft^2 and lose 6h(80-31)1ft^2/R1 = 295, for a net
gain of 452, or 135.5K Btu for the wall. You could keep the shed 65 F for
8 hours if 135.5K = 8h(65-31)G, ie if the shed's thermal conductance G
= 498 Btu/h-F or less. G = 900 ft^2/R makes R = 1.8. Not much :)
2) Can I distribute the heat by routing the exhaust pipe through the
building...?

LCZ said:
I wouldn't be running exhaust pipe all over just for the heat it produces.
You want a good 'draw' on the stove to get it operating at its best.

That might come from Grainger's $80.55 4C941 450 F 136 cfm blower with
their $16.38 4WZ05 speed control pushing cooled flue gas up a chimney.
...you need it above the roof line to get a good draw.

A forced draft might go out a window...
I put a damper on the pipe just above the stove. Between this and the air
intakes on the doors of the stove I could control the heat very well.

You might control the heat with a thermostat (eg Grainger's $13.25 2E158)
that turns off the draft blower when the room's warm enough. Another in
series might turn on the blower when the stove is hot.

So long as you don't need a natural draft, why not suck more heat out of the
fluepipe? The draft blower might be near the outdoor chimney connection (if
any) and its long 6" fluepipe could draw air from the stove outlet. Meanwhile,
the middle part of the fluepipe could be inside a 10" pipe with a T and a 10"
to 6" reducer at the chimney end to make an air-air heat exchanger, with the
T mounted horizontally, with Grainger's $70.85 4C847 550 cfm 10" fan at the
far end of the T (also controlled by the room temp thermostat) pushing room
air into the T, through the space between the inner and outer pipes. The room
air would emerge warmer from the end near the stove.

Meanwhilst, the flue pipe would slope towards the chimney, and flue gas would
enter the blower from the 6" vertical pipe below the T, via an elbow with a
pinhole to let condensation drip into a bucket and exit the blower into the
outdoor chimney connection at X. A condensing chimney might produce at least
15% more latent heat than one without, with the same wood consumption.

The setup might look like this, in a fixed font like Courier:

10" pipe ______________________________
___________________________ f
6" pipe / -------------------------- \ <== a
|| ----------------------\||/----n --------
|| 10" elbow --> ||_________| X |
|| \ --> blower |
|| \---------|________|
|| |<-- L -->|
---------
draft | |
inlet--> | stove |
--------- | drip |
| | |bucket|
-----------------------------------------------------------------

If 20 cfm of 600 F flue gas (about 12K Btu/h of sensible heat) enters the L'
fluepipe and the fan pushes 400 cfm of 70 F room air into the 10" pipe and
we want a 212 F exiting flue gas temp, E = (600-212)/(600-70) = 0.73. Z
= Cmin/Cmax = 20/400 = 0.05 and E = (1-e^-(1-Z)NTU))/(1-Ze^-(1-Z)NTU)), so
NTU = 1.347 = AU/Cmin, = 3.14L/20 in this counterflow heat exchanger, and
L = 8.57 feet, or less, with condensation. L = 10' would be convenient.

Nick
 
B

Bruce in Alaska

Jan 1, 1970
0
wmbjk said:
These search results might give you some ideas.
http://tinyurl.com/7x8ef Rules vary from state to state. Transfer
pumps are affordable http://tinyurl.com/5c7kx I have one like this
for diesel http://tinyurl.com/4qwqk You sometimes see them without the
hoses for about $80. But I expect these cheapie versions wouldn't last
long with gasoline.

Wayne

Pumps, certified for diesel, should NOT be used for gasoline. EVER.
they are not sealed for explosive Gases, and can start a fire, in
some instances. Gasoline Certified Pumps are VERY expensive
due to the cost of UL and other requirements.


Bruce in alaska
 
M

Merrill Cox Ballantyne

Jan 1, 1970
0
i'm suprised i read through so many posts about how to store gasoline and no
one has mentioned that gasoline doesnt store, i thought that was common
knowledge. it doesnt last longer than like 4-6 months. read one of many
arcticles found by searching gasoline storage at google such as
http://home.aol.com/keninga/gasoline.htm . American gasoline is very
volitile to chemical changes over time, since it quickly turns into a
varnish like compound and will gum up your injectors or carbourator, and
eventually your car will stop running and you'll have to have your fuel
system rebuilt. you wont have such problems with foreign gas since its not
as clean burning and not so chemically volitile.

i have burned 2 year old gas in my 1957 army type jeep but good luck
storing gas that long and burning it in a modern car unless you cycle
through it. but in that case you will continually be burning old gas as you
replenish your stock. in my opinion if you are concerned about a shortage
of gas you'd be better off converting your engine to say ethyl alcohol or
lpg. you can store a lot of propane for a long time. same with alcohol.
not to mention its clean burning.

~Merrill

http://merrillballantyne.com
 
W

William P.N. Smith

Jan 1, 1970
0
cheaperthandirt.com is a good source of the surplus cans.

Yeah, I got some from them, and (except for the fact that their nozzle
is built upside down and drips) they aren't bad. Now I need to store
them, but my wife's (ahem) concerned about the fire hazard, are jerry
cans much of a fire hazard? GeneratorJoes.net claims "These cans
withstand rigorous tests including; a fire test (full of gasoline) and
a drop test." but they don't actually say what kind of test it is.
I'll probably just keep a couple of them full and rotate them between
the lawn mower and snow blower, should I still bother with a separate
shed far from the house?
 
W

wmbjk

Jan 1, 1970
0
Yeah, I got some from them, and (except for the fact that their nozzle
is built upside down and drips) they aren't bad. Now I need to store
them, but my wife's (ahem) concerned about the fire hazard, are jerry
cans much of a fire hazard?

Perhaps you could show your wife the simplicity of a vehicle fuel
tank, and explain the abuse those take. That might make her more
comfortable with gas cans. Either that, or she's going to want you to
park the car a block away from your house. :)

Wayne
 
W

William P.N. Smith

Jan 1, 1970
0
William said:
Yeah, I got some from them, and (except for the fact that their nozzle
is built upside down and drips) they aren't bad.

Urg, turns out all their nozzles are built wrong. Who sells Nato spec
jerry can nozzles inexpensively? Stainless is better than plastic for
me...

Thanks!
 
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