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Store ~100 gallons gasoline?

Discussion in 'Home Power and Microgeneration' started by William P.N. Smith, Sep 28, 2004.

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  1. Is there any easy way for the average homeowner to store around 100
    gallons of gasoline? Obviously, 20 5-gallon cans are expensive and
    difficult to store, my many plastic cans bulge in the summer (which
    makes me a bit nervous), is there anything else I can do? I'm
    envisioning a 275-gallon fuel oil tank with a transfer pump to fill
    the cars from, and regular gasoline deliveries, is that something
    do-able without jumping thru lots of hoops (double tanks, yaddah,
    yaddah, yaddah...)

    Thanks for any thoughts!
     
  2. Ecnerwal

    Ecnerwal Guest

    2 55 gallon drums, and a drum pump, vent valve, etc - but you still may
    have a problem actually getting fuel delivered. Also, the fire
    department may not like it, & your insurance company may not like it.
    Think about a house fire and the reason will be obvious. A typical farm
    setup puts the fuel storage away from other buildings to reduce the
    hazard.

    IIRC, fuel oil tanks are not suited to gasoline, but I could be wrong.
     
  3. Guest

    Unless you live in a rural area, I think 20 used 5 gallon NATO "Jerry Cans"
    stored in a ventilated shed away from your house is your best bet. The NATO
    cans are sturdy metal with rubber gaskets so they don't leak fumes and don't
    bulge (much).

    cheaperthandirt.com is a good source of the surplus cans. You can order
    them 9 at a time from them and don't need to pay extra shipping charges.
     
  4. wmbjk

    wmbjk Guest

    These search results might give you some ideas.
    http://tinyurl.com/7x8ef Rules vary from state to state. Transfer
    pumps are affordable http://tinyurl.com/5c7kx I have one like this
    for diesel http://tinyurl.com/4qwqk You sometimes see them without the
    hoses for about $80. But I expect these cheapie versions wouldn't last
    long with gasoline.

    Wayne
     
  5. Vaughn

    Vaughn Guest

    Good point but... Keep the drums sealed up tight and there is no way that
    moisture can get inside to condense. A little alcohol also will solve the
    problem.

    Vaughn
     
  6. Most Municipalities that have Fire Departments have VERY Strict
    Regulations for Gasoline Storage of more than 5 gallons, due to
    it's low Flash Temp and Hi Flamability. Before you get to far,
    you need to contact the Fire Marshal in your jurasdiction, and get the
    regs. 55 Gallon Drums work very well for us bush folks, but
    you need to rotate your fuel if your using Gasoline, as it tends to
    get gummy with age.

    Bruce in alaska
     
  7. No condensation, if you keep the Drum sealed. Just allow for heat
    expansion.


    Bruce in alaska
     
  8. Guest

    Wood is work. More insulation means less work...
    NREL says Peoria is 27.0 on an average December day, with a 34.6 F
    average daily max... 830 Btu/ft^2 of sun falls on a south wall.
    Maybe you have a 10'x30' south wall. With a layer of polycarbonate glazing
    (about $1.50/ft^2 in 4' wide rolls, with a 10 year guarantee), you might
    collect 0.9x830 = 747 Btu/ft^2 and lose 6h(80-31)1ft^2/R1 = 295, for a net
    gain of 452, or 135.5K Btu for the wall. You could keep the shed 65 F for
    8 hours if 135.5K = 8h(65-31)G, ie if the shed's thermal conductance G
    = 498 Btu/h-F or less. G = 900 ft^2/R makes R = 1.8. Not much :)
    That might come from Grainger's $80.55 4C941 450 F 136 cfm blower with
    their $16.38 4WZ05 speed control pushing cooled flue gas up a chimney.
    A forced draft might go out a window...
    You might control the heat with a thermostat (eg Grainger's $13.25 2E158)
    that turns off the draft blower when the room's warm enough. Another in
    series might turn on the blower when the stove is hot.

    So long as you don't need a natural draft, why not suck more heat out of the
    fluepipe? The draft blower might be near the outdoor chimney connection (if
    any) and its long 6" fluepipe could draw air from the stove outlet. Meanwhile,
    the middle part of the fluepipe could be inside a 10" pipe with a T and a 10"
    to 6" reducer at the chimney end to make an air-air heat exchanger, with the
    T mounted horizontally, with Grainger's $70.85 4C847 550 cfm 10" fan at the
    far end of the T (also controlled by the room temp thermostat) pushing room
    air into the T, through the space between the inner and outer pipes. The room
    air would emerge warmer from the end near the stove.

    Meanwhilst, the flue pipe would slope towards the chimney, and flue gas would
    enter the blower from the 6" vertical pipe below the T, via an elbow with a
    pinhole to let condensation drip into a bucket and exit the blower into the
    outdoor chimney connection at X. A condensing chimney might produce at least
    15% more latent heat than one without, with the same wood consumption.

    The setup might look like this, in a fixed font like Courier:

    10" pipe ______________________________
    ___________________________ f
    6" pipe / -------------------------- \ <== a
    || ----------------------\||/----n --------
    || 10" elbow --> ||_________| X |
    || \ --> blower |
    || \---------|________|
    || |<-- L -->|
    ---------
    draft | |
    inlet--> | stove |
    --------- | drip |
    | | |bucket|
    -----------------------------------------------------------------

    If 20 cfm of 600 F flue gas (about 12K Btu/h of sensible heat) enters the L'
    fluepipe and the fan pushes 400 cfm of 70 F room air into the 10" pipe and
    we want a 212 F exiting flue gas temp, E = (600-212)/(600-70) = 0.73. Z
    = Cmin/Cmax = 20/400 = 0.05 and E = (1-e^-(1-Z)NTU))/(1-Ze^-(1-Z)NTU)), so
    NTU = 1.347 = AU/Cmin, = 3.14L/20 in this counterflow heat exchanger, and
    L = 8.57 feet, or less, with condensation. L = 10' would be convenient.

    Nick
     
  9. Pumps, certified for diesel, should NOT be used for gasoline. EVER.
    they are not sealed for explosive Gases, and can start a fire, in
    some instances. Gasoline Certified Pumps are VERY expensive
    due to the cost of UL and other requirements.


    Bruce in alaska
     
  10. wmbjk

    wmbjk Guest

    I say "affordable", you say "VERY expensive". Depends on your point of
    view I guess. This electric fuel/gas transfer pump is $200
    http://tinyurl.com/68gth. For those on a tighter budget, there's a $7
    model http://tinyurl.com/3owop. :)

    Wayne
     
  11. i'm suprised i read through so many posts about how to store gasoline and no
    one has mentioned that gasoline doesnt store, i thought that was common
    knowledge. it doesnt last longer than like 4-6 months. read one of many
    arcticles found by searching gasoline storage at google such as
    http://home.aol.com/keninga/gasoline.htm . American gasoline is very
    volitile to chemical changes over time, since it quickly turns into a
    varnish like compound and will gum up your injectors or carbourator, and
    eventually your car will stop running and you'll have to have your fuel
    system rebuilt. you wont have such problems with foreign gas since its not
    as clean burning and not so chemically volitile.

    i have burned 2 year old gas in my 1957 army type jeep but good luck
    storing gas that long and burning it in a modern car unless you cycle
    through it. but in that case you will continually be burning old gas as you
    replenish your stock. in my opinion if you are concerned about a shortage
    of gas you'd be better off converting your engine to say ethyl alcohol or
    lpg. you can store a lot of propane for a long time. same with alcohol.
    not to mention its clean burning.

    ~Merrill

    http://merrillballantyne.com
     
  12. Yeah, I got some from them, and (except for the fact that their nozzle
    is built upside down and drips) they aren't bad. Now I need to store
    them, but my wife's (ahem) concerned about the fire hazard, are jerry
    cans much of a fire hazard? GeneratorJoes.net claims "These cans
    withstand rigorous tests including; a fire test (full of gasoline) and
    a drop test." but they don't actually say what kind of test it is.
    I'll probably just keep a couple of them full and rotate them between
    the lawn mower and snow blower, should I still bother with a separate
    shed far from the house?
     
  13. wmbjk

    wmbjk Guest

    Perhaps you could show your wife the simplicity of a vehicle fuel
    tank, and explain the abuse those take. That might make her more
    comfortable with gas cans. Either that, or she's going to want you to
    park the car a block away from your house. :)

    Wayne
     
  14. Urg, turns out all their nozzles are built wrong. Who sells Nato spec
    jerry can nozzles inexpensively? Stainless is better than plastic for
    me...

    Thanks!
     
  15. Good point, thanks!
     
  16. Guest

    Just don't use the nozzle. The cans are designed to pour very
    effectively without them.

    Just use a big black Blitz funnel like the one below at your local
    Walmart/Autzone for around $1USD.

    http://jcsonlinetoolshed.com/product.php/962/0/
     
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