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Discussion in 'Off-Topic Members Lounge' started by darren adcock, Aug 24, 2017.

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  1. darren adcock

    darren adcock

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    I'm currently doing some research around the artist Jean Tinguley, he's a kinetic sculptor from Switzerland originally then Paris. His biggest theory was to question the word static. He Suggests static as defined by still is incorrect, he suggests that stillness can't actually exist. My question is can stillness exist? is everything not in constant exchange on a molecular level, atomic level. My science isn't great but I can follow to an extent.
     
  2. davenn

    davenn Moderator

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    it's all relative and also to what depth of level you want to go to ....
    keep it macro or go down to microscopic and smaller

    I can stay static ( still) relative to the TV in my room. But me the TV and the whole earth is in motion relative to the rest of the universe
     
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  3. darren adcock

    darren adcock

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    Sep 26, 2016
    Yes relativity.

    I was imagining the surface of water and evaporation how this is a constant exchange and no room for stillness. At a stretch am I right in thinking then that all surfaces have similar exchanges?
     
  4. kellys_eye

    kellys_eye

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    'Stillness' can be considered as the lack of entropy (zero energy) and 'Absolute Zero' is the epitome of it......

    is my understanding.
     
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  5. shrtrnd

    shrtrnd

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    If a tree falls in a forest and nobody is around to hear it, did it make any sound?
    So this guy is an artist and therefore must be a deep-thinker?
    Are you researching the artist and are studying his theory, or are you studying the theory and referencing the artist's impression of it?
    'Static' is a word with a definition.
    I'm wondering what it is exactly you're researching?
     
  6. darren adcock

    darren adcock

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    Sep 26, 2016
    The research I am doing is part of my ongoing kinetic scultpture and sound work, I have always loved Tinguely but needed to get a scientific angle on his theory to make sure I can be as critical as possible when referencing his theory.

    I got this reply of a physics forum...brilliant response and hilarious....

    Originally Posted by oramics [​IMG]
    Hi all new here. I'm by no means a scientist or physicist. I build electronics mostly from schematics and am slowly learning it with my oscilloscope.
    Very cool! And may I say Good for you! [​IMG] I always appreciate it when someone has a desire to learn, especially with electronics and physics. In fact before I became a physicist I was an electronics technician.

    Originally Posted by oramics [​IMG]
    My question is can stillness exist?
    Absolutely. You must be referring to this: https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Jean_T....21.2C.22_1959

    They guy doesn't know what he's talking about. He's an artist, not a physicist. He also claims that decomposition does not exist and that's nonsense too. Decomposition is properly defined here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decomposition
    Decomposition is the process by which organic substances are broken down into simpler matter. The process is a part of nutrient cycle and is essential for recycling the finite matter that occupies physical space in the biosphere. Bodies of living organisms begin to decompose shortly after death.
    Here's some sage advice from good-ole me: Never learn physics from an artist and never learn art from a physicist. Learn physics from a physicist and art from an artist. [​IMG]

    Originally Posted by oramics [​IMG]
    is everything not in constant exchange on a molecular level, atomic level. My science isn't great but I can follow to an extent. I've just read a brief explantion of Uncertainty Theory which I think is relevant?
    You're referring to the branch of physics called quantum mechanics. There's no meaning to Constant exchange in quantum mechanics. At the atomic level there's not even a notion of "moving". In fact velocity is not something that's directly observable. What's observable are things like position, energy, momentum, spin, etc.

    But we don't live at the quantum level, i.e. all of our experiences are at the macroscopic level. At that level its quite normal to speak of something at rest.

    When that guy says that static = still is incorrect he's not talking as a physicist would. Think of it like this; can we speak of something being a sphere? What about a circle or a straight line? At the quantum level we can't speak about objects being flat or round or whatever. But at the macroscopic level we most certainly can speak of it. In fact there's a famous example from history we can turn to, Giotto di Bondone. When the Pope asked Giotto to send him a drawing to demonstrate his skill, Giotto drew a circle so perfect it seemed like it was drawn with a compass. Can we speak of a perfect circle? Of course.

    It's a cool story: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giotto

    The artist you refer to isn't being realistic. As I said above, our experiences, all of them, are in the macroscopic world. In that world we make approximations. We can then speak of the Earth, Moon and Sun as being spheres. We can speak of a car moving at 56 mph. We can speak of objects at rest and therefore static.

    If the artist you speak of attempted to argue with a policeman who wanted to give him a speeding ticket by saying that we can't speak of speed since quantum mechanics doesn't allow it, he wouldn't get very far and he might irritate the cop. [​IMG]
     
  7. shrtrnd

    shrtrnd

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    I guess I'd contact a University Physics Department and ask them for a scientific answer to your questions.
    I think your artist, while you admire his work, is wearing the Emperor's New Clothes.
    Media celebrities on this side of the pond often confuse adoration of their skills in their specific trade as an extension of some other intrinsic ability that carries over to all the other opinions that they might have.
    I suspect the artist has a personal theory that may or may not be valid, but it's simple 'reality' to him.
    Good luck with the research. We have a lot of smart guys here who may have a better answer for you in following posts. I'm only good at communing with electrons. Electrons might make static, if static exists, ... but if so, so far they're keeping it a secret from me.
     
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  8. darren adcock

    darren adcock

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    Haaaaaaaaa

    Totally.

    I just needed to clarify if there was any weight of his theories in terms of physics. There's non physical elements to his writings I enjoy.
     
  9. shrtrnd

    shrtrnd

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    Scratch my reference to a University Physics Dept.
    What you may need is the Philosophy Dept.
    My company reference library has about two dozen books on 'statics'.
    I didn't see any on 'stillness'.
    Maybe your research should shift to the study of 'anti-statics'(?)
    Haaaa.
     
  10. darren adcock

    darren adcock

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    Sep 26, 2016
    haaaaaaaaaaaaa! lol
     
  11. CDRIVE

    CDRIVE Hauling 10' pipe on a Trek Shift3

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    Historically this has to be the most asinine question ever asked. My guess is that it was first posed by sophomore psych student who thought himself to be profoundly brilliant! :rolleyes:

    Chris
     
  12. CDRIVE

    CDRIVE Hauling 10' pipe on a Trek Shift3

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    I'll extend this proclivity to celebrities. In Hollywood an actor, actress is casted to play the role of an historic figure. Usually a controversial figure. After or before release these glittering jewels of self adulation show up on talk shows speaking as authorities of the figure and the subject matter.

    Chris
     
  13. shrtrnd

    shrtrnd

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    Or how about the actors/actresses who play a part, then consider themselves experts in the field of their character.
    Too many examples to cite.
    How about all the war-hero actors who never served in the military service.
    All the cop shows on TV where the rules don't apply to the cops, and then people wonder why the public doesn't trust cops. Hollywood at work.
    Of course the tree falling in the forest is another example. If the listener in question wasn't actually there to hear the tree fall, then obviously, there is no proof for them that it made any noise.
    me, me, me, .....
    You know, there used to be a time when somebody's community mattered to them more than any one individual.
    CDRIVE, you and me probably remember them.
     
  14. CDRIVE

    CDRIVE Hauling 10' pipe on a Trek Shift3

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    Here's a feel good animated movie.
    In "Team America World Police" you get to see a bunch of the usual DC and Hollywood pin heads literally explode!
    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0372588/

    Chris
     
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  15. shrtrnd

    shrtrnd

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    Just re-watched it a few months ago. Some of it is becoming dated, but definitely worth watching.
    If you haven't in a while CDRIVE, watch 'Mars Attacks' by Tim Burton. Burton has a lot of loose screws in his brain-housing group, but the alien address to Congress is worth the re-viewing. (To us, anyway).
    ... sure hope darren adcock got some of the information he wanted from his original post here.
     
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  16. CDRIVE

    CDRIVE Hauling 10' pipe on a Trek Shift3

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    As far as Darren's question is concerned:
    Artists are the very last people I would look to for answers about anything other than art. That would include anything social, political, religious or otherwise. Most definitely not Science! I think Leonardo Da Vinci would be the only exception.

    Chris
     
  17. darren adcock

    darren adcock

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    Sep 26, 2016
    That's quite a rule you've set yourself their Cddrive. There wouldn't have been an apartheid movement without music and art as a means to mass a people based revolution.
     
  18. kellys_eye

    kellys_eye

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    Not even art - one British TV presenter famously got some chimpanzees to paint 'abstract' pictures and a bunch of art critics (assuming the painters were 'up and coming') were asked their opinion - and as you'd suspect they gave all sorts of arty-farty, airy fairy comments, mostly heaping praise on the talented artists-to-be.....

    .... until they were revealled for the chimpanzees they really were at which point the arty farty brigade took serious umbrage.... classic TV.
     
    Arouse1973 and CDRIVE like this.
  19. darren adcock

    darren adcock

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    Sep 26, 2016
    Harrrr, I'd find that funny, apart from the chimps being exploited. Mehhhh, find myself defending art here but in general it pisses me off. However some of my favourite critical thinkers, activists, philosophers all make art. There's a generalisation that comes with art i that it isn't productive, this is just really a facade to make it easy to exploit artists.
     
  20. kellys_eye

    kellys_eye

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    I create fantastic and expensive art every morning I get up and leave my bed unmade......

    Such 'art' does nothing to help the publics impression of 'artists'.
     
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