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Standardization of DC power supplies (chargers) for CE

M

Markus Kuhn

Jan 1, 1970
0
Interesting petition at:

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/chargers/

Is there actually any existing ready-to-use standard that could be
mandated stem the current bewildering variety of connectors and
specifications for DC power supplies ("chargers") for digital
consumer-electronics devices (phones, cameras, PDAs, printers, etc.)?

This is clearly an area that needs some work. If there really are
good reasons to have different voltages and maximum currents
provided by the supply (9 V, 12 V, 15 V; 2 A, 3 A, 5 A),
then perhaps a little negotiation protocol a la power-over-ethernet
(48 V) or USB (5 V) would be the right approach? It might add a
dollar or two to the cost of the individual charger/supply, but would
lead overall to enormous savings by reducing the number of
chargers required in a household.

Markus
 
J

Jan Panteltje

Jan 1, 1970
0
Interesting petition at:

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/chargers/

Is there actually any existing ready-to-use standard that could be
mandated stem the current bewildering variety of connectors and
specifications for DC power supplies ("chargers") for digital
consumer-electronics devices (phones, cameras, PDAs, printers, etc.)?

This is clearly an area that needs some work. If there really are
good reasons to have different voltages and maximum currents
provided by the supply (9 V, 12 V, 15 V; 2 A, 3 A, 5 A),
then perhaps a little negotiation protocol a la power-over-ethernet
(48 V) or USB (5 V) would be the right approach? It might add a
dollar or two to the cost of the individual charger/supply, but would
lead overall to enormous savings by reducing the number of
chargers required in a household.

Markus

<quote>
An act of parliament should be passed creating a standard committee whose
approval would be needed for the introduction of any new style of connector.
<end quote >

You must be joking right?

With the toys (celphones, stuff) getting smaller every day nw connectors
will be needed.
Such a system as proposed would slow down development.
I am not against standard connectors, but there arre already a few of those,
problem is that those do not have standard voltages.

All my adaptors carry a sticker for which toy it is intended.
And better too, the 12V adaptor has the same connector as the 9 V,
and one has some sort of cable with all possible connectors.
Using in the wrong adaptor could be very expensive.

For example the eeePC 9V adaptor has the same connector as the Alecto battery charger 12V
adaptor etc. Boom.

So, a negotiation protocol, 2 $ you say?
Many of those adaptors cost only 2$ to make (or less) in China.
Maybe a connector with keys in it, so you could only insert it in the right
socket, but that conflicts with 'as small as possible'.
And it would take years for a negotiation protocol to make it into all toys.

Then there is + and -, inverted too on some equipment.

So a new connector, but then high current and low current requires different size
pins.... no, I think I will not sign that petition, ever.
 
E

Eeyore

Jan 1, 1970
0
Markus said:
Interesting petition at:

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/chargers/

Is there actually any existing ready-to-use standard that could be
mandated stem the current bewildering variety of connectors and
specifications for DC power supplies ("chargers") for digital
consumer-electronics devices (phones, cameras, PDAs, printers, etc.)?

This is clearly an area that needs some work. If there really are
good reasons to have different voltages and maximum currents
provided by the supply (9 V, 12 V, 15 V; 2 A, 3 A, 5 A),
then perhaps a little negotiation protocol a la power-over-ethernet
(48 V) or USB (5 V) would be the right approach? It might add a
dollar or two to the cost of the individual charger/supply, but would
lead overall to enormous savings by reducing the number of
chargers required in a household.

Interesting comment.

I believe (but it may be hearsay) that the Chinese government has
recently mandated the use of a USB style connector to supply power where
the voltage and current capacity it can provide is adequate. Or maybe
that was just for mobile phones ?

I agree that the proliferation of styles is quite bizarre and completely
unnecessary. Not to mention polarity issues too ! As a precuation I've
been known to put bridge rectifiers on the inputs to such equipment.

Graham
 
E

Eeyore

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jan said:
<quote>
An act of parliament should be passed creating a standard committee whose
approval would be needed for the introduction of any new style of connector.
<end quote >

You must be joking right?

The EU can minimise the mess easily I'd have thought. Think CE.

Graham
 
E

Eeyore

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jan said:
<quote>
An act of parliament should be passed creating a standard committee whose
approval would be needed for the introduction of any new style of connector.
<end quote >

You must be joking right?

With the toys (celphones, stuff) getting smaller every day nw connectors
will be needed.
Such a system as proposed would slow down development.
I am not against standard connectors, but there arre already a few of those,
problem is that those do not have standard voltages.

All my adaptors carry a sticker for which toy it is intended.
And better too, the 12V adaptor has the same connector as the 9 V,
and one has some sort of cable with all possible connectors.
Using in the wrong adaptor could be very expensive.

For example the eeePC 9V adaptor has the same connector as the Alecto battery charger 12V
adaptor etc. Boom.

So, a negotiation protocol, 2 $ you say?
Many of those adaptors cost only 2$ to make (or less) in China.
Maybe a connector with keys in it, so you could only insert it in the right
socket, but that conflicts with 'as small as possible'.
And it would take years for a negotiation protocol to make it into all toys.

Then there is + and -, inverted too on some equipment.

So a new connector, but then high current and low current requires different size
pins.... no, I think I will not sign that petition, ever.

I like your idea of a 'keyed' connector to avoid application of incorrect voltage or
polarity.

Graham
 
A

AnimalMagic

Jan 1, 1970
0
Interesting petition at:

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/chargers/

Is there actually any existing ready-to-use standard that could be
mandated stem the current bewildering variety of connectors and
specifications for DC power supplies ("chargers") for digital
consumer-electronics devices (phones, cameras, PDAs, printers, etc.)?


"Bewildering variety"? Folks like you, or anyone that thinks it is a
"bewildering variety" are "easily bewildered".
This is clearly an area that needs some work.

Bullshit.
 
E

Eeyore

Jan 1, 1970
0
AnimalMagic said:
"Bewildering variety"? Folks like you, or anyone that thinks it is a
"bewildering variety" are "easily bewildered".

Have you seen how many plug adapters some units come with ? Never mind the
polarity reversal one ? I've easily seen ten types, even stupid ones where
just the inner diameter varies, so it might fit but be unreliable.

Graham
 
I remember the original USB connector was designed by a committee of
(software?) suppliers as  'standard'. Seems we're now up at about six
varieties.

Things may get a little better. The mini-USB connector is now
obsolete for new designs and is replaced by the micro-USB. At the
same time the USB standard has been updated to include a dedicated USB
charger specification which is now coming into use for newer mobile
phones and other products. (This was almost certainly the result of
the Chinese initiative.)

The new USB charger will deliver 5V at up to around 1A. I suspect
that this charger will become the preferred one for many small
devices. Out of all the connector variants, only two are allowed for
USB chargers. The large original type A connector is to be used where
the power outlet connector is in the charger body and the type A micro-
USB plug is to be used if a flying lead is fitted.

Devices detect the new charger by looking for a short circuit between D
+ and D- contacts. This replaces previous unofficial methods such as
that used by Apple where a network of resistors was connected to the D
+ and D- contacts.

John
 

neon

Oct 21, 2006
1,325
Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Messages
1,325
This is a lame idea. one charger that is a good idea can save some money there but then again all my miriads of electronics toys will have to wait in line to charged at some time . Where to put it? garage to charge my drill motor or in my bedroom to charge my IPOD. some people just cannot think properly.
 
W

whit3rd

Jan 1, 1970
0
I remember the original USB connector was designed by a committee of
(software?) suppliers as  'standard'. Seems we're now up at about six
varieties.

My junk-cables box has standard type A and B connectors, and
five different variants of miniature USB tips. So it's at least
seven.

Fourteen, if you count male/female as different types.
More, if you allow internal (motherboard) USB connectors.

Standardization is wonderful. Proprietary connector schemes
bedeviled SCSI for years, and now it's USB that is the
major headache. The standards organizations didn't LIKE
the design of connectors, and only did it grudgingly, because
interoperability would die if one and only one manufacturer
could make connectors. Some equipment makers
had the idea that their 'parts' department would turn a
profit on replacement cables (laptop modem dongles
being the shining precursor example), so my Nikon Coolpix
sports a nonstandard USB socket.
 
M

Martin Brown

Jan 1, 1970
0
AnimalMagic said:
"Bewildering variety"? Folks like you, or anyone that thinks it is a
"bewildering variety" are "easily bewildered".

Oh. I think they do have a point.

A quick glance around my desk reveals that the older laptop PSU is an
18v 6.3A whereas the new one is 15v 5A - the lengths of the concentric
plugs are very slightly different, but based on diameters I reckon one
would fit into the others socket. They each have a fully decorated
xmas tree of standards compliance stickers on.

Others lying around are all for different voltages and currents and
connectors for modem, router, scanner, phone. Out of the random sample
of about 20 in my office only 3 share the same nominal voltage.

Most are centre positive which is standardisation of sorts. And a
couple are simple transformers with AC output. By far the most common
connector is the concentric cylinder plug of various dimensions.

Some will certainly plug into entirely the wrong piece of kit if you
were to try it.
Bullshit.

It would be nice if the manufacturers did get their act together and
had fewer random voltages and currents and/or standardised connectors
so that if the connector fits it would guarantee that the supply was
suitable. The units all seem to be made in China. Cylinder plugs with
current encoded by OD, voltage by length and ID perhaps.

Consumer items should be a bit more nearly bullet proof wrt plugging
in the wrong external psu in these days when almost everything comes
with one. Various TV set top boxes and games being an obvious example.

Regards,
Martin Brown
 
P

Phil Allison

Jan 1, 1970
0
"Martin Brown"
Oh. I think they do have a point.

A quick glance around my desk reveals that the older laptop PSU is an
18v 6.3A whereas the new one is 15v 5A - the lengths of the concentric
plugs are very slightly different, but based on diameters I reckon one
would fit into the others socket. They each have a fully decorated
xmas tree of standards compliance stickers on.

Others lying around are all for different voltages and currents and
connectors for modem, router, scanner, phone. Out of the random sample
of about 20 in my office only 3 share the same nominal voltage.

Most are centre positive which is standardisation of sorts. And a
couple are simple transformers with AC output. By far the most common
connector is the concentric cylinder plug of various dimensions.

Some will certainly plug into entirely the wrong piece of kit if you
were to try it.


** Which is an argument for MORE variety of such plug and socket types.

It would be nice if the manufacturers did get their act together and
had fewer random voltages and currents and/or standardised connectors
so that if the connector fits it would guarantee that the supply was
suitable.

** Given the huge variety of possible voltages, current needs , regulated
voltage or not - that means a HUGE increase in the number of plug and
socket types.

Consumer items should be a bit more nearly bullet proof wrt plugging
in the wrong external psu in these days when almost everything comes
with one.

** More proof that a greater variety of types is a absolute MUST !!

Various TV set top boxes and games being an obvious example.


** Marvellous how some people can inadvertently produce such a strong cases
for the OPPOSITE of their mad beliefs.



........ Phil
 
J

JSprocket

Jan 1, 1970
0
Martin said:
It would be nice if the manufacturers did get their act together and
had fewer random voltages and currents and/or standardised connectors
so that if the connector fits it would guarantee that the supply was
suitable. The units all seem to be made in China. Cylinder plugs with
current encoded by OD, voltage by length and ID perhaps.

The obvious standardisation is an input voltage of 10-15VDC, which would
allow everyone to use their computers etc. in the car, caravan, boat
etc. direct off the battery (with "of course" suitable protection for
load dumps etc.)

But these things are best left to the market (along with goldplate like
EMC susceptibility), rather than standards committees. The consumer has
to learn that you get what you pay for. There's no point in having laws
that are applied and policed only sporadically if even that.

JS
 
N

Nick Maclaren

Jan 1, 1970
0
|>
|> > Some will certainly plug into entirely the wrong piece of kit if you
|> > were to try it.
|>
|> ** Which is an argument for MORE variety of such plug and socket types.

You are making the unwarranted assumption that the different types
are used to distinguish incompatible electrical properties. How
nice that would be - but believing that it is so (or even would be)
is merely naive.

There are exceptions but, in general, there is little correlation
between plug/socket type and electrical properties. And, where such
correlation exists, it is often imposed by standards organisations
(and quite often ignored, even so).


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
 
M

Martin Trautmann

Jan 1, 1970
0
The new USB charger will deliver 5V at up to around 1A.


What did they make wrong before, when that much power that close
together was considered as impossible?
I suspect
that this charger will become the preferred one for many small
devices.

Maybe - as long as two/four contacts are enough. Sometimes USB casings
where abused for e.g. 4+1 pins.

I'd welcome 5 V and micro USB as one standard,
while there might be another one for 12 V (maybe up to 5 A).

However, step-up/down converters (or simple resistive voltage dividers)
maybe inferior, burning energy for the desired internal voltage.

I hope the future might offer smarter devices which request a certain
voltage from a smart supply when plugged in.

.... and I expect smart (and cheap) battery packs which would manage to
log the current charge/discharge status e.g. for less smart supplies
(portable photovoltaic, bicycle generators).

iGo is one of the current companies which do provide smarter supplies
and adapter solutions. At least a step in between...

- Martin
 
P

Phil Allison

Jan 1, 1970
0
"Nick Maclaren"
"Phil Allison"
You are making the unwarranted assumption that the different types
are used to distinguish incompatible electrical properties.

** No - but they could be so used.

How nice that would be - but believing that it is so (or even would be)
is merely naive.

** You need reading lessons - fool.

There are exceptions but, in general, there is little correlation
between plug/socket type and electrical properties.

** Which is just what is being lamented here - you over-snipping fool.




...... Phil
 
E

Eeyore

Jan 1, 1970
0
JSprocket said:
The obvious standardisation is an input voltage of 10-15VDC, which would
allow everyone to use their computers etc. in the car, caravan, boat
etc. direct off the battery (with "of course" suitable protection for
load dumps etc.)

But these things are best left to the market (along with goldplate like
EMC susceptibility), rather than standards committees. The consumer has
to learn that you get what you pay for. There's no point in having laws
that are applied and policed only sporadically if even that.

Well... The IEC came up with what is now virtually the universal mains
connector.

Graham
 
E

Eeyore

Jan 1, 1970
0
Martin said:
I hope the future might offer smarter devices which request a certain
voltage from a smart supply when plugged in.

A neat feature would be a supply whose output could be 'programmed'
according to the device attached to it.

Graham
 
E

Eeyore

Jan 1, 1970
0
It could go further than that such as watts delivered, not just voltage,
thus avoiding 'overloading' small PSUs.

Grham
 
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