Spanish take the lead

[News]

Spanish newspaper El Pais, says all newly built and refurbished houses in
Spain will need to be fitted with PV cells.

This should increase production and drop the prices world wide.

 

[Gymmy Bob]

Eventually. The short term effect will send them through the roof (pun
intended)

 

[N9WOS]

Spanish newspaper El Pais, says all newly built and refurbished houses in
Spain will need to be fitted with PV cells.

This should increase production and drop the prices world wide.

Since when has a government mandate for a use of a product ever made that
product cheaper?

The government mandating the use of the product will just drive the price up
because it is creating an artificial market for it.

Like the fact that California PV subsides are artificially inflating the
price
Of PV systems in the US.

There is a specific point where supply and demand cross.
If a producer makes a specific number of panels,
he can only charge so much for them if he wants to sell all of them.
The more he produces, the less he can charge for them, if he wants to sell
all of them.

By putting that subside on PV, they artificially move that supply/demand
crossing point up.
The producers can charge more for what they are currently producing, and
still sell all of it.

If they would drop the subsides, it would weed out the less competitive
technologies and would
Make the companies streamline to stay competitive.
Production would ramp greatly to reduce per unit cost, so they could target
the entire US,
Instead of California, and a few other specific places that have subsides.

I think they should let the market economy handle it.
When PV becomes competitive compared to other forms of energy,
it will gain market share on it's own, and everyone will be better off..

 

[N9WOS]

Spanish newspaper El Pais, says all newly built and refurbished houses in
Spain will need to be fitted with PV cells.

This should increase production and drop the prices world wide.

Since when has a government mandate for a use of a product ever made that
product cheaper?

The government mandating the use of the product will just drive the price up
because it is creating an artificial market for it.

Like the fact that California PV subsidies are artificially inflating
the price of PV systems in the US.

There is a specific point where supply and demand cross.
If a producer makes a specific number of panels,
he can only charge so much for them if he wants to sell all of them.
The more he produces, the less he can charge for them, if he wants to sell
all of them.

By putting that subsidy on PV, they artificially move
that supply/demand crossing point up.
The producers can charge more for what they are
currently producing, and still sell all of it.

If they would drop the subsidies, it would weed out the less competitive
technologies and would make the companies streamline to stay competitive.
Production would ramp greatly to reduce per unit cost,
so they could target the entire US, instead of California,
and a few other specific places that have subsidies

I think they should let the market economy handle it.
When PV becomes competitive compared to other forms of energy,
it will gain market share on it's own, and everyone will be better off..

 

[Robert Morien]

Spanish newspaper El Pais, says all newly built and refurbished houses in
Spain will need to be fitted with PV cells.

This should increase production and drop the prices world wide.

Could you please provide the link for this

 

[News]

Could you please provide the link for this

Try a Google on Bloomberg.

 

[News]

Since when has a government mandate for a use of a product ever made that
product cheaper?

The government mandating the use of the product will just drive the price up
because it is creating an artificial market for it.

Governments mandate all building materials, so what is different about PV
cells?

 

[News]

No,it won't ....

OK they will quadruple, but at least less crap will be sent into the
environment. Then there are the silly lead acid batteries they use. They
pollute like mad in the production and disposal. Maybe the PV cells could
rive a compressor that charges an air tank that will be sued on demand to
supply electricity. The store medium will be non-polluting air.

 

[Robert Morien]

Try a Google on Bloomberg.

So once again you can't provide any evidence that what you say is true.

 

[Robert Morien]

Governments mandate all building materials, so what is different about PV
cells?

That is absolutely not true. That makes you three for three.

(hint: PV's are not a building material)

 

[Robert Morien]

OK they will quadruple, but at least less crap will be sent into the
environment. Then there are the silly lead acid batteries they use. They
pollute like mad in the production and disposal. Maybe the PV cells could
rive a compressor that charges an air tank that will be sued on demand to
supply electricity. The store medium will be non-polluting air.

How big of a compressor and storage tank would one need to power a
typical house for one day? How big does this get when you need to store
say 4 or 5 days because the sun isn't always shining enough to let the
PV's work at their best efficiency/power output?

What are the environmental effects of increased steel production to
build these "environmental" devices? How much energy/steel/coal etc does
it take to build just one of these compressors and storage tanks.

What do you do with the heat produced from compressing the air? Where do
you put this equipment? What is the cost of sound insulation (and tank
safety)?

What will all of this cost (compared to PV's and batteries)?

 

[News]

That is absolutely not true. That makes you three for three.

(hint: PV's are not a building material)

In Spain they soon will be.

 

[News]

How big of a compressor and storage tank would one need to power a
typical house for one day? How big does this get when you need to store
say 4 or 5 days because the sun isn't always shining enough to let the
PV's work at their best efficiency/power output?

What are the environmental effects of increased steel production to
build these "environmental" devices?

I'm sure far less than lead acid batteries.

 

[N9WOS]

I'm sure far less than lead acid batteries.

Look in the header information.
"news.uni-berlin.de"
He is from Berlin

You got to take into account what he hears from the news media from day to
day.
Anything that the united states does, has to be wrong.
And the US can't do anything better than them....
If lead acid batteries are an environmental eye sore to them,
Just guess how badly they think we are polluting the earth with used lead
acid batteries.

And take into account that lead acid battery recycling is not a standard
disposal stream over there.
They are dumping thousands of tons of lead acid batteries in the landfills.
Yet the USA has a relatively mature lead acid battery recycling program.
The large majority of all lead acid battery products is recycled.
...................

With a recycling rate of about 96%, it leads the way in percentage recycled,
rising well above aluminum Used Beverage Cans (UBCs), which are often a more
publicized material when it comes to recycling rates.
...................

The figures I have seen from time to time is 95% of each battery is reused.
Others have clamed 99% with the paper label as being the only thing thrown
away.

Just because lead acid batteries are not environmentally friendly over
there,
doesn't mean that they are not environmentally friendly in the united
states.
In the united states, lead acid batteries have became a very benign
technology.

 

[N9WOS]

In Spain they soon will be.And when the people in Spain are still paying $5+ per watt,
While we are paying $1.50 per watt, I will be laughing my a$$ off.

On another note, US PV production is taking a healthy road.
About 20% year over year increase.
We are still exporting the majority of are solar panels.
That is because the price is not competitive with other forms of energy.
When the price drops to a competitive level, the market and production
will explode and then follow along the line of Japan..

Japan....
Considering that electricity cost 25 cents per kilowatt,
PV has finally reached a point where it is competitive.
So the market and production is exploding.
But before then, it was lagging the USA and Europe.
It will continue to grow quickly until the cheaper PV power
saturates the power market and then the industry will then
go into a self maintenance mode..

Europe.
Electricity cost are about the same as the US. (correct me if I am wrong)
But PV production is already starting to turn skyward??????
The reason...
A few countries in Europe are basically taking the route of PV at any cost.
They are trying to force PV use.
That will keep more expensive and less efferent technologies alive.
The forced usage will cause an increase in electricity rates to offset the
extra cost.
Rates that will be locked in for the operational life of the installation.

I already know what will result from it.

The PV will in the EU will never reach a point that
it is an actual competitor to other forms of electricity.
It's percentage of market share will depend on legislation.
Cost will be artificially high because of the expensive systems
they put into full scale production.
..
Then......
EU legislators will put tariffs on "cheep PV" imports from
Japan and the US to stop their products from flooding the market
And putting the local producers out of business.

 

[Robert Morien]

I'm sure far less than lead acid batteries.

Look in the header information.
"news.uni-berlin.de"
He is from Berlin

You got to take into account what he hears from the news media from day to
day.
Anything that the united states does, has to be wrong.
And the US can't do anything better than them....
If lead acid batteries are an environmental eye sore to them,
Just guess how badly they think we are polluting the earth with used lead
acid batteries.

And take into account that lead acid battery recycling is not a standard
disposal stream over there.
They are dumping thousands of tons of lead acid batteries in the landfills.
Yet the USA has a relatively mature lead acid battery recycling program.
The large majority of all lead acid battery products is recycled.
..................

With a recycling rate of about 96%, it leads the way in percentage recycled,
rising well above aluminum Used Beverage Cans (UBCs), which are often a more
publicized material when it comes to recycling rates.
..................

The figures I have seen from time to time is 95% of each battery is reused.
Others have clamed 99% with the paper label as being the only thing thrown
away.

Just because lead acid batteries are not environmentally friendly over
there,
doesn't mean that they are not environmentally friendly in the united
states.
In the united states, lead acid batteries have became a very benign
technology.
[/QUOTE]

Doesn't matter where "news" is from, he/she is suffering from a lack of
proper education...that would be tolerable as there is so much of that
going on, but his/her refusal to listen to explainations or provide
proof just makes him/her amusing entertainment...and gives me a chance
to improve my typing skills.

 

[Robert Morien]

What, no pithy retort to this. (hint: when trying to ignore someones
point, it's best to just clip it)

I'm sure far less than lead acid batteries.

Is that one of your theories or are you capable of backing that
statement with some research and cites for us to peruse.

 

[Robert Morien]

I see you are afraid to respond to this. Good, you are finally getting
some sense.

In Spain they soon will be.

I doubt that there is anywhere on earth where PV will ever be a building
material.

But if you'd like to present evidence to the contrary, we await this
anxiously

 

[Windsun]

And exactly what information do you have to back that statement up?

 

[Windsun]

Governments mandate all building materials, so what is different about PV
cells?

No they do NOT. You are obviously totally clueless about construction.