# Some interesting notes

Discussion in 'Misc Electronics' started by Chris, Oct 5, 2005.

1. ### ChrisGuest

Hello, Just look.

The theorem of magnetic shells by Gauss predicts a uniform magnetic field
across the diameter of a solenoid. Measurement shows this to be false. The
field is higher near the windings.

That means that Ampere's circuital law is wrong

That means Maxwells Equations are wrong.

Gauss knew this and stated that we should not query his theorem because it
was "perfect" like a circle. And because the nice neat elecromagnetic
theory that built up round it everything was beautiful.

The Biot-Savart hypothesis came up which was found to give a different
result. Well it was only a hypothesis.

And another result is the force of repulsion between two conductors carrying
like currents. This is the result of relative motion of the electrons and
the fixed charges and is electrotatic in nature and needs to "magnetic
field" it is a consequence of the special theory of relativity. Thus, using
Occums razor we cut out the model of magnetism. There is no magnetism.
Forget magnetism it is a misconseption.

We have to use a different model and simple things like motors may be
redesigned using a ferrite or a high permittivity material like Barium
Titanate. This stuff only needs to be between the conductors of the amature
and stator the rest can be made of plastic. The force is between the
conductors only. There are no "Magnets". A bar "magnet" is the result of
cooperating electron spin. And there are organic materials which have
unpaired electrons and these could be made in to lightweight ferrites if you
get the spacing right.

And there are other things that need recalculating, like inductance, it is a
phenomina that is not the result of magnetism, but some kind of elecrostatic
interaction between lengths of wire carrying a current. For alternating
current it must be acting in some regenerative way. We have to find a way
of modelling the inductance and back emf without magnetism because although
it works the way we have it, the measured inductance is always higher than
the calculated inductance. This is because of the rising field near the
windings. I think it is to do with photons.

I put this in as a spade in the beautiful structure of electromagnetism.

Chris.

2. ### Guest

Good Lord Chris, don't you realize that Gauss laws have been confirmed
for centuries!

Then too, you claim to be a physicicist....Small chance.

Harry C.

3. ### ChrisGuest

Hello and thank you.

I suggest you spend a few hours of your valuable time checking that the
field across the diameter of a solenoid is uniform as Gauss says.

My simple experiments find a huge discrepancy.

And this is repeatable, exactly, each time.

If you do not do this then whatever your qualifications, experience and
salary, you are not a scientist.

Science has to be falsifyable by experiment to be "science". You can do
this yourself quite easily. Gauss knew about this result but said "my
theory is above experimental result".

It seems to be the Gauss has become a religion. No checking allowed.

You may say my experiments are in error but to be sure you must repeat it
yourself.

Chris.

4. ### Jasen BettsGuest

My simple experiments find a huge discrepancy.
have you tried it with a solenoid of infinite length and with a uniform
winding, that's the only case where there will be a uniform field

if you're putting iron (or similar magnetic metals) inside the core of the
solenoid that'll mess it up too.

Bye.
Jasen

5. ### ChrisGuest

Hello,

Infinite solenoids do not exist and logic dictates that the law I found by
finite element analysis is the same for solenoids of any length. What is
true of a single loop and true for five separated loops by simple induction
is true for n loops and n can aproach infinity.

So I don't have to try it.

However if Gauss is true for infinite solenoids only then it is never true
because there are no infinite solenoids in the real world.

There is no difference experimentally between the increase near the wire in
a single turn 10 inches in diameter or a 6 loop solenoid 10 inches long and
ten inches in diameter.

Gauss, in his construction did not specify the length of the solenoid it was
just a magnetic shell. His diagram has no depth. So it should apply to a
single turn. It does no give the right answer by measurement.

If you doubt me (as you do) try it yourself.

There is no iron.

Chris.

6. ### Jasen BettsGuest

what "solutions"

the real world is a sphere-(oid), but most engineers can ignore that and
treat it as flat in most instances.
it works best when length is much greater than diameter
if you're using 10" diameter you'll want about 100" long.

and those windings should be uniform (so either use 1" wide copper (etc) strip
or use thin wire and many more turns.) a .05" wire then 0.95" gap before the
next wire is not uniform, it's lumpy...
maybe it is cross-section
it does, but in the centro of the loop the field is dispersed more along the
axis,

It's not until there are many other loops behind and in front of the single
loop that the strength in the centre is close to that near the edge,

if there are gaps between the wires then axial offset will be more
significant near the edge than at the centre of the solenoid

this seems to be what you have discovered.

Bye.
Jasen

7. ### ChrisGuest

Not to worry Gauss must be right. I cannot do accurate experiments. I do
not believe Gauss because his results conflict with the calculated
distribution of the flux across a diameter using the Biot-Savart law. It is
a messy complicated and difficult calculation and is was known since the
Biot-Savart hypothesis was proposed that the result it gave differed from
Gauss but because his method was much simpler and seems self evident
everyone believes Guass. But as I say the experimental result differs from
Gauss in the same way as predicted by Biot-Savart and this was known to
Gauss.

I do not know if the adjustments you suggest will make a substantial
difference but I don't believe they will because of the calculated result
with which there is close agreement.

Chris.

8. ### ChrisGuest

And anyway there are no infinte solenoids.

The theory I derived from Biot-Savart applies to short solenoids and is
meaningless for infinite ones as it is a method of Finite Element Analysis.

There is no argument really.

Chris.