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Some interesting notes

Discussion in 'Misc Electronics' started by Chris, Oct 5, 2005.

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  1. Chris

    Chris Guest

    Hello, Just look.

    The theorem of magnetic shells by Gauss predicts a uniform magnetic field
    across the diameter of a solenoid. Measurement shows this to be false. The
    field is higher near the windings.

    That means that Ampere's circuital law is wrong

    That means Maxwells Equations are wrong.

    Gauss knew this and stated that we should not query his theorem because it
    was "perfect" like a circle. And because the nice neat elecromagnetic
    theory that built up round it everything was beautiful.

    The Biot-Savart hypothesis came up which was found to give a different
    result. Well it was only a hypothesis.

    And another result is the force of repulsion between two conductors carrying
    like currents. This is the result of relative motion of the electrons and
    the fixed charges and is electrotatic in nature and needs to "magnetic
    field" it is a consequence of the special theory of relativity. Thus, using
    Occums razor we cut out the model of magnetism. There is no magnetism.
    Forget magnetism it is a misconseption.

    We have to use a different model and simple things like motors may be
    redesigned using a ferrite or a high permittivity material like Barium
    Titanate. This stuff only needs to be between the conductors of the amature
    and stator the rest can be made of plastic. The force is between the
    conductors only. There are no "Magnets". A bar "magnet" is the result of
    cooperating electron spin. And there are organic materials which have
    unpaired electrons and these could be made in to lightweight ferrites if you
    get the spacing right.

    And there are other things that need recalculating, like inductance, it is a
    phenomina that is not the result of magnetism, but some kind of elecrostatic
    interaction between lengths of wire carrying a current. For alternating
    current it must be acting in some regenerative way. We have to find a way
    of modelling the inductance and back emf without magnetism because although
    it works the way we have it, the measured inductance is always higher than
    the calculated inductance. This is because of the rising field near the
    windings. I think it is to do with photons.

    I put this in as a spade in the beautiful structure of electromagnetism.

  2. Guest

    Good Lord Chris, don't you realize that Gauss laws have been confirmed
    for centuries!

    Then too, you claim to be a physicicist....Small chance.

    Harry C.
  3. Chris

    Chris Guest

    Hello and thank you.

    I suggest you spend a few hours of your valuable time checking that the
    field across the diameter of a solenoid is uniform as Gauss says.

    My simple experiments find a huge discrepancy.

    And this is repeatable, exactly, each time.

    If you do not do this then whatever your qualifications, experience and
    salary, you are not a scientist.

    Science has to be falsifyable by experiment to be "science". You can do
    this yourself quite easily. Gauss knew about this result but said "my
    theory is above experimental result".

    It seems to be the Gauss has become a religion. No checking allowed.

    You may say my experiments are in error but to be sure you must repeat it

  4. Jasen Betts

    Jasen Betts Guest

    My simple experiments find a huge discrepancy.
    have you tried it with a solenoid of infinite length and with a uniform
    winding, that's the only case where there will be a uniform field

    if you're putting iron (or similar magnetic metals) inside the core of the
    solenoid that'll mess it up too.

  5. Chris

    Chris Guest


    Infinite solenoids do not exist and logic dictates that the law I found by
    finite element analysis is the same for solenoids of any length. What is
    true of a single loop and true for five separated loops by simple induction
    is true for n loops and n can aproach infinity.

    So I don't have to try it.

    However if Gauss is true for infinite solenoids only then it is never true
    because there are no infinite solenoids in the real world.

    There is no difference experimentally between the increase near the wire in
    a single turn 10 inches in diameter or a 6 loop solenoid 10 inches long and
    ten inches in diameter.

    Gauss, in his construction did not specify the length of the solenoid it was
    just a magnetic shell. His diagram has no depth. So it should apply to a
    single turn. It does no give the right answer by measurement.

    If you doubt me (as you do) try it yourself.

    There is no iron.

  6. Jasen Betts

    Jasen Betts Guest

    what "solutions"

    the real world is a sphere-(oid), but most engineers can ignore that and
    treat it as flat in most instances.
    it works best when length is much greater than diameter
    if you're using 10" diameter you'll want about 100" long.

    and those windings should be uniform (so either use 1" wide copper (etc) strip
    or use thin wire and many more turns.) a .05" wire then 0.95" gap before the
    next wire is not uniform, it's lumpy...
    maybe it is cross-section :)
    it does, but in the centro of the loop the field is dispersed more along the

    It's not until there are many other loops behind and in front of the single
    loop that the strength in the centre is close to that near the edge,

    if there are gaps between the wires then axial offset will be more
    significant near the edge than at the centre of the solenoid

    this seems to be what you have discovered.

  7. Chris

    Chris Guest

    Not to worry Gauss must be right. I cannot do accurate experiments. I do
    not believe Gauss because his results conflict with the calculated
    distribution of the flux across a diameter using the Biot-Savart law. It is
    a messy complicated and difficult calculation and is was known since the
    Biot-Savart hypothesis was proposed that the result it gave differed from
    Gauss but because his method was much simpler and seems self evident
    everyone believes Guass. But as I say the experimental result differs from
    Gauss in the same way as predicted by Biot-Savart and this was known to

    I do not know if the adjustments you suggest will make a substantial
    difference but I don't believe they will because of the calculated result
    with which there is close agreement.

  8. Chris

    Chris Guest

    And anyway there are no infinte solenoids.

    The theory I derived from Biot-Savart applies to short solenoids and is
    meaningless for infinite ones as it is a method of Finite Element Analysis.

    There is no argument really.

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