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software used to make the laserprinter PCB etch resist images ?

R

robb

Jan 1, 1970
0
well i was wrong it is %3 perox, not %5
think this will make a difference ?

thanks for info,
robb
 
C

ChairmanOfTheBored

Jan 1, 1970
0
what software is best used to make the images for the DIY laser printer PCB
resist trick ?

ie. print image on the laser printer, iron on copper cover board, wash away
paper, disolve exposed copper, remove the plastic, drill holes .....

thanks for any help,
rob

Buy a sign cutting machine and use the film type resist sheets.

Cut the "sign" out and apply it to the copper clad PCB media, and etch
away!

Those sign machines are pretty accurate, gantry operated cutting stylus
machines.

Unless you are talking about fine pitch work.

You could always print on standard media with standard white paper, and
use the old camera method with photo-resist materials.
 
C

ChairmanOfTheBored

Jan 1, 1970
0
Software WILL NOT solve the paper path problem; that path *MUST* be
perfectly straight to allow the passage of a PCB.
Also, the printer must allow for rather thick paper ("pasteboard"
comes to mind).
Damn few printer models had straight paths; you may have to do some
difficult reseach and get a used printer.


Even fewer handle more than 50 mil stock.


A LaserJet plotter comes to mind. They are more forgiving of stock
thickness, and many can be set for thicker media.
 
R

Robert Roland

Jan 1, 1970
0
might have to break out one of my old PC boxes to test those DOS
versions out.

Take a look at "VMWare Server". It is a free virtualisation software.
It works spectacularly well.
 
J

JosephKK

Jan 1, 1970
0
Robert Baer [email protected] posted to sci.electronics.design:
Software WILL NOT solve the paper path problem; that path *MUST*
be
perfectly straight to allow the passage of a PCB.
Also, the printer must allow for rather thick paper ("pasteboard"
comes to mind).
Damn few printer models had straight paths; you may have to do
some
difficult reseach and get a used printer.

That is the number one reason that the transfer method is used with
laser printers. remember that the transfer technique flips the image
on one axis. See gootee boards.
 
R

robb

Jan 1, 1970
0
hi ,
do you know if phosphoric or oxalic acid can safely be
substituted for the muriatic ? i noticed they have similar pKa
value.

robb
 
what software is best used to make the images for the DIY laser
printer PCB

.....

i read on the various sites about amking copper disolve with a
1:1:1 mix of muriatic:peroxide:water ? is that true or make a
good etchant ? and surely they are not refering to the 5%
peroxide found in the local drug/food stores ? if not then what
% peroxide content would one want to use ?

I'm using this solution. Though it's 1:2 acid:peroxide for me. You
don't need water as hydrogen peroxide is 99.5 % water or more. And
yes, they are referring to the weak peroxide you can buy in drug
stores. Muriatic acid is just weak hydrochloric acid (again, more
water than acid).

My typical experience is that a freshly made solution will etch a 10cm
by 5cm board in under 5 minutes at room temperature without agitation.
Though towards the end of 5 minutes I'd recommend having a look at the
board and manually shake your etching tray until done. That's because
although this solution is very cheap it is also very strong and can
over-etch if you leave your board in for too long.

If you're only making a few PCBs occasionally then the solution will
keep for about a week. You can add a bit more peroxide if you find it
a bit weak after a couple of days.

If you're making lots of PCBs then you should invest in a bubble tank.
Not to speed up etching, this stuff etches in under 5 minutes as is
already, but to re-generate the etchant. Once the solution turns blue
or bluish green pump bubbles into it until it becomes light green.
Then what you have is a completely different etchant -- cupric acid
which is a very good industrial grade etchant. Once you've got your
cupric acid then you can basically keep regenerating it with air
bubbles whenever it weakens.
 
R

robb

Jan 1, 1970
0
great, thanks "sleb" for the information

robb

I'm using this solution. Though it's 1:2 acid:peroxide for me. You
don't need water as hydrogen peroxide is 99.5 % water or more. And
yes, they are referring to the weak peroxide you can buy in drug
stores. Muriatic acid is just weak hydrochloric acid (again, more
water than acid).

My typical experience is that a freshly made solution will etch a 10cm
by 5cm board in under 5 minutes at room temperature without agitation.
Though towards the end of 5 minutes I'd recommend having a look at the
board and manually shake your etching tray until done. That's because
although this solution is very cheap it is also very strong and can
over-etch if you leave your board in for too long.

If you're only making a few PCBs occasionally then the solution will
keep for about a week. You can add a bit more peroxide if you find it
a bit weak after a couple of days.

If you're making lots of PCBs then you should invest in a bubble tank.
Not to speed up etching, this stuff etches in under 5 minutes as is
already, but to re-generate the etchant. Once the solution turns blue
or bluish green pump bubbles into it until it becomes light green.
Then what you have is a completely different etchant -- cupric acid
which is a very good industrial grade etchant. Once you've got your
cupric acid then you can basically keep regenerating it with air
bubbles whenever it weakens.
 
J

Jerry

Jan 1, 1970
0
I'm using this solution. Though it's 1:2 acid:peroxide for me. You
don't need water as hydrogen peroxide is 99.5 % water or more. And
yes, they are referring to the weak peroxide you can buy in drug
stores. Muriatic acid is just weak hydrochloric acid (again, more
water than acid).

My typical experience is that a freshly made solution will etch a 10cm
by 5cm board in under 5 minutes at room temperature without agitation.
Though towards the end of 5 minutes I'd recommend having a look at the
board and manually shake your etching tray until done. That's because
although this solution is very cheap it is also very strong and can
over-etch if you leave your board in for too long.

If you're only making a few PCBs occasionally then the solution will
keep for about a week. You can add a bit more peroxide if you find it
a bit weak after a couple of days.

If you're making lots of PCBs then you should invest in a bubble tank.
Not to speed up etching, this stuff etches in under 5 minutes as is
already, but to re-generate the etchant. Once the solution turns blue
or bluish green pump bubbles into it until it becomes light green.
Then what you have is a completely different etchant -- cupric acid
which is a very good industrial grade etchant. Once you've got your
cupric acid then you can basically keep regenerating it with air
bubbles whenever it weakens.

Thanks for that. How do you dispose of the solution when its used up or
old?
 
R

RST Engineering \(jw\)

Jan 1, 1970
0
Toss in a pad or two of steel wool. The copper will plate out onto the
steel. When the solution is no longer green, you have clear hydrochloric
acid. Neutralize the acid with lye and you basically (no pun intended) have
salt water. Steel isn't hazmat. Copper metal isn't hasmat, and salt water
isn't hasmat.

By the way, has anybody taken the time to teach you how to snip?

Jim

--
"If you think you can, or think you can't, you're right."
--Henry Ford



Once you've got your
 
R

robb

Jan 1, 1970
0
hello,
i am using ExpressPCB and i have two layer board.

I need to print one of the images (bottom or top ) flipped and
having trouble.

there is a flip option for components so i tried to make my
drawing a component but i can not create a component with traces.
So what is the method for producing a flipped/mirrored image of
the PCB traces ?

I can export to a bmp but

thanks for any help,
robb
 
J

JeffM

Jan 1, 1970
0
robb said:
i am using ExpressPCB[...]
I need to print one of the images (bottom or top ) flipped
and having trouble.

I believe I already used the phrases "lock-in-ware"
"jump thru hoops" (SPECIFICALLY about printing)
and "real deal".
 
R

robb

Jan 1, 1970
0
JeffM said:
robb said:
i am using ExpressPCB[...]
I need to print one of the images (bottom or top ) flipped
and having trouble.

I believe I already used the phrases "lock-in-ware"
"jump thru hoops" (SPECIFICALLY about printing)
and "real deal".

so you did JeffryM... so you did.
yes i did read it and i know you said it and i do appreciate
your sharing your info but jumping through hoops sounds hopeful
and.....

i tried kincad and it was just too much there for what i want to
do, i mean what do you need to draw a PCB ??? a component list,
layer select, trace draw and pad draw thats like 3 buttons and a
drop down select box plus an options window for customizing. gEDA
was too difficult to install

anyways i was hoping there was a crack....
in my day we used disassemblers, tracers and hex-editors to
modify application binaries to enable certain features that were
just simply disabled through run time switches or other
simplistic internal checks. you could spot these enableable
features in apps because the app allowed you perform functions on
internal or vendor provided data sets but not on you own data
set. Later with windoze "events based" application frameworks
and moving config into registry settings there were registry
monitoring, file monitoring and events watching tools to watch
what the applications were looking for.... occasionally a
careless designer/programmer might not hide registry access to a
key called flip_option = 0 or you might see an
MS_Menu_Item5_Disable event etc....

so if there is no magic user setting then maybe some one has
found the simplest loops to jump through and i won't need to
rediscover those hoops ??

expressPCB will let you flip their components but not you own
custom component then they will not allow traces in custom
components nor can user use certain types of pads in the custom
components although express does and the output images does not
include traces either .....

i see the hoops just wondering how to navigate the hoops, someone
made acooment suggesting it was possible so how is the question ?

oh well i guess i could spent that rant learning kincad
thanks,
robb
 
K

Ken Fowler

Jan 1, 1970
0
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From: "robb" <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.basics,sci.electronics.design
Subject: [ExpressPCB] how to print for 2 layer board ? was:software used to make the laserprinter
PCB etch resist images ?
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 10:25:46 -0400
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hello,
i am using ExpressPCB and i have two layer board.

I need to print one of the images (bottom or top ) flipped and
having trouble.

there is a flip option for components so i tried to make my
drawing a component but i can not create a component with traces.
So what is the method for producing a flipped/mirrored image of
the PCB traces ?

I can export to a bmp but

thanks for any help,
robb

I used Express PCB and Schematic to create a one time project. I didn't need Gerber support for
further development and the price for boards was OK. I have also used it to produce a board by
Toner Transfer. For single sided boards it works fine. The problem is when you need to flip the
reverse side copper and the silkscreen. There is no way to print the copper and silkscreen
reversed. I made my silkscreen printout by printing to a bitmap, then importing the bitmap into
Turbo Cad and flipping it. You can also scan the normal Express PCB output to a JPG format and flip
it in a photo editor. You have to be careful with the scaling. I could also replicate the artwork
to fill up a whole sheet of patterns. I like the simplicity of the Express tools.

Ken Fowler, KO6NO
 
R

robb

Jan 1, 1970
0
robb said:
what software is best used to make the images for the DIY laser printer PCB
resist trick ?

ie. print image on the laser printer, iron on copper cover board, wash away
paper, disolve exposed copper, remove the plastic, drill holes ......
Hello i posted some of my PCB progress in
"alt.binaries.schematics.electronics"

i was hopping for some experienced advice and critiques on
design, layout , how to improve what is wrong what is right etc..

thanks for your help and time,
robb
 
J

JosephKK

Jan 1, 1970
0
robb [email protected] posted to sci.electronics.design:
hi ,
do you know if phosphoric or oxalic acid can safely be
substituted for the muriatic ? i noticed they have similar pKa
value.

robb

It is less a question of safely than usefully, pKa is not the only
issue.
 
M

Marra

Jan 1, 1970
0
Keep the tracks as thick as possible.
Keep pads as big as possible without them causing shorts.

I use PCBCAD21 which I got off ebay for a few pounds.
 
M

Marra

Jan 1, 1970
0
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