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So what's the truth about lead-free solder ?

Discussion in 'Electronic Repair' started by Eeyore, Jul 24, 2007.

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  1. Arfa Daily

    Arfa Daily Guest

    As are most other products that are *not* subject to excessive amounts of
    vibration.

    Arfa
     

  2. Good one.
     
  3. Nope. If you tune the signal, you get ALL of the data. You must exceed
    more than ten percent bit error rate for a dropout to occur, and it is
    bit error rate that matters most for a "tuned" channel.
     
  4. Arfa Daily

    Arfa Daily Guest

    Yes, a good write-up of the problems, and why leaded solder didn't suffer
    from them.

    Arfa
     
  5. Eeyore

    Eeyore Guest

    I have a cable TV set top box. There's no tuning involved. It still breaks up
    occasionally.

    Graham
     
  6. Eeyore

    Eeyore Guest

    Oh, I recall it now.

    It seems that the Open University has studied this issue and has indeed found tin
    pest in 'cheap' lead-free solders that are 99%+ tin. These are in commercial use too
    !

    http://materials.open.ac.uk/srg/srg_tp.htm

    The question next should be whether the popular SAC alloys are affected.

    Graham
     
  7. IT tunes itself, dipshit.

    Do you actually think I meant that you had a knob to turn?

    Get your head out of your twenty year behind the digitally tuned
    receiver world ass.

    OK... I'll spell it out for you.

    If it ACQUIRES the signal, and locks it in, it gets ALL packets from
    the HEAVILY FEC coded stream, and can handle up to a 10% bit error rate
    before the "tuning" starts to lose, and not be able to repair with the
    FEC, data packets. When that happens, one starts to lose audio and or
    video or could see some video artifacts. It usually results in short
    term. low frame count dropouts.

    So it isn't "breaking up". That is an analog expression. In digital
    broadcast streams, the term is "dropout".
     
  8. Eeyore

    Eeyore Guest

    Which part of " There's no tuning involved " didn't you understand ?

    You press a button, it gives you the channel. Of course I know it does any internal
    tuning required in firmware.

    Graham
     
  9. Eeyore

    Eeyore Guest

    Yes it 'breaks up'. Typically with weird pixellation.
    No it isn't.

    No, a dropout is a momentary LOSS of signal.

    Graham
     
  10. Except that you made the fucking stupid remark as if you were
    attempting to "educate" me. Nice back pedal though.
    You didn't grasp the post though, and made the remark unnecessarily.
     
  11. No. In HDTV broadcast, "dropout" is when a tuned station has more than
    about 10% bit error rate, and the FEC cannot repair the data stream, and
    everything from a few picture artifacts appears, to complete frame losses
    (dropouts) occur. The picture artifacts are also dropouts, just not
    those that cause the tuning device to display a blank screen for that
    given frame, which they do when it gets beyond a certain point.

    If they wanted to, they could show you the frames, and you would see
    horrendous amounts of image artifacts, and likely audio problems as well.

    It IS called dropout. Lost packets ARE lost "signal" as the packet would
    not have been lost, were it not for the tuner's inability to reconstruct
    any missing packet data from the FEC coding. This has been true from way
    back in the early satellite receiver days.

    Videocipher

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Videocipher

    Digicipher II (most closely related to the new HDTV broadcast schema).

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DigiCipher_2

    The current HDTV broadcast schema is also a General Instrument format,
    now owned by Motorola.
     
  12. On a sunny day (Wed, 25 Jul 2007 17:05:06 -0700) it happened Spurious Response
    The boxes that are sold here are equipped with a SCART connector, a waste.
    My 30 year old portable has no SCART, and neither is it HDTV (high resolution).
    HDTV is here only available in HDMI DHCP, and still rare anyways.
    The normal broadcasting on 'digitenne' here is not HDTV, but DVB-T 720x576.
    The idea of a 'portable' is that you bring it to the camping, switch it on, and
    see the picture. This fails now for many portables.
    I am watching digital TV via the PC for satellite, and also via USB with
    a settop box for terrestrial.
    This allows me to record transport-stream, burn to DVD, automate things, etc.

    I have not seen any digitenne portable TVs yet, but I am sure the market will
    soon overflow with these.
    I do see a lot of very cheap analog TVs for sale :)


    mmm, it is actually not so simple, for example with satellite
    we now are moving from DVB-S to DVB-S2, and also from 720x576 to 1980x1080 interlaced
    or progressive, all with HDCP / HDMI..... using MPEG4 / H264 with some sort
    of audio, well we have now mp2, AC3, more to follow.....
    That, and your sets fall apart after 3 years because of lead-free, it is a great time
    for manufacturers of electronics consumers stuff now ain't it?
    Not even to mention Blu-ray versus HD-DVD or whatever, no connector fits....
    no format is the same....
    It is a wild wild world out there :)
     
  13. Never heard of it, sound OK though.
     
  14. Eeyore

    Eeyore Guest

    Repeating myself (for emphasis) is backpedalling is it ? What a curious view you have of
    the world.

    Don't be absurd.

    Graham
     
  15. Eeyore

    Eeyore Guest

    Thanks for playing. It is like taking candy from a baby though.

    Graham
     
  16. Eeyore

    Eeyore Guest

    I imagine you haven't looked very hard in that case. Many have UHF outputs.

    Graham
     
  17. konijne keutel Eeyore wrote in
    If you had as much as a clue, did not cut half the posting, knew at least
    half as much about TV as about rabbits, you would be chaising them.
     
  18. Eeyore

    Eeyore Guest

    I wasn't replying to the bits I trimmed.

    Graham
     
  19. To enlighten the others: to buy anything with any sort of analog output sucks,
    as analog is dead at least here in the Netherlands (except for audio).
    Buying a settop box with USB output, if you have a laptop with USB, creates the
    portable TV with much better quality and recording possibility.
    The USB settop box I bought runs from a 12 V adapter, so also from a car battery.
    I researched quite a bit to get the best deal, and SCART was not part of that,
    let alone a horrible interference prone, PAL coding artefacts decorated
    UHF analog output.
    ftp://panteltje.com/pub/dvb-t-nl.txt
     
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