SMT LM1496?

[Daniel Haude]

On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 03:37:27 +0100,

Could you please name an aircraft that uses a 741 anywhere and that still
has 34 years of life?

No he can't. National security. But I guess military take the "never
change a running system" rule to new levels, although they might have a
skewed view of what "running" actually means.

--Daniel

 

[Winfield Hill]

Bill Sloman wrote...

The LM301 was much nicer, when if finally arrived.

The LM324 quad amplifier arrived rather later, and the
version of it with only two amplifiers in one package
- the LM358 - arrived even later.

I'm trying to remember when the 324 arrived, it must
have been several years before I started my company,
which was in 1972. Wasn't it nearly the same time
as the uA741, which was shortly after the 301.

Thanks,
- Win

 

[Tony Williams]

I'm trying to remember when the 324 arrived, it must
have been several years before I started my company,
which was in 1972. Wasn't it nearly the same time
as the uA741, which was shortly after the 301.

Vague memories that Fairchild's uA709 came out in about 1967, and
the uA741 about a year later. The 324 (Nat-Semi's LM324?) was
maybe a year or so later than the 741. Note that the 324 relies
on being able to make reasonable integrated pnp transistors and
has at least one jfet current sink (maybe more).

 

[Tim Shoppa]

Could you please name an aircraft that uses a 741 anywhere and that still
has 34 years of life?

The B-52 fleet is supposed to be in operational service until the year
2051, at which point the great-great-grandchildren of the original pilots might
be flying them. Of course the avionics will be swapped around a lot before
then, and there's probably at least two major engine upgrades too.

Heck, when the B-52 was new the Philbrick op-amp was new, too

At my day job, I interface with relay-based systems that are supposed to
have 70 to 100 year lifespans.

Tim.

 

[Winfield Hill]

Tony wrote...

Vague memories that Fairchild's uA709 came out in
about 1967, and ...

Are we all showing our age here?

Thanks,
- Win

 

[Spehro Pefhany]

Bill Sloman wrote...

I'm trying to remember when the 324 arrived, it must
have been several years before I started my company,
which was in 1972. Wasn't it nearly the same time
as the uA741, which was shortly after the 301.

This article claims it was in 1974 (which apparently was also the year
the 4558 was introduced), and says that it is "still the world’s
best-selling op amp". The 1982 National Linear databook still had the
full compilation of circuit ideas in the '324 datasheet.

http://www.reed-electronics.com/ednmag/contents/images/241228.pdf

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

 

[legg]

Vague memories that Fairchild's uA709 came out in about 1967, and
the uA741 about a year later. The 324 (Nat-Semi's LM324?) was
maybe a year or so later than the 741. Note that the 324 relies
on being able to make reasonable integrated pnp transistors and
has at least one jfet current sink (maybe more).

uA709 in 64/65
LM301 in 67
uA741 in 68
LM324 was in 74 supposedly, same year as RC4558.
CA3130 in 75

http://www.uoguelph.ca/~antoon/gadgets/741/741.html

These commercial product numbers don't stand out in a truly historical
sense, as they are not examples of the first, nor the only application
of any of the technologies that allowed their function.

The widespread popularity of the 741 name was not necessarily ensured
solely either by the actual product's date of introduction,
performance, or availability to hobbyists..... but 'earlier' and
'better' and 'cheaper' never hurts. A significant number of prominent
manufacturers never even labelled their products with this ID, never
mind duplicating it bodily.

Saying 741 wasn't even quicker than saying op-amp, or intended to
imply that only a ua741 should be refered to, but sometimes a specific
number impresses, where generalities won't, in popular communication.

RL

 

[Michael Black]

This article claims it was in 1974 (which apparently was also the year
the 4558 was introduced), and says that it is "still the world’s
best-selling op amp". The 1982 National Linear databook still had the
full compilation of circuit ideas in the '324 datasheet.

http://www.reed-electronics.com/ednmag/contents/images/241228.pdf

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

That's about when I'd place it, but sometimes it's hard to be certain.
Devices were around before they hit the hobby magazines, which is where
I would have read about them. SOme of the earlier devices were around
some years before they hit the hobby magazines, but I think that was
due to the whole novelty of ICs at the time. The hobby magazines were
just getting into them. After '71 or so, interesting ICs tended to
show up in construction articles, and even articles about interesting
new ICs, almost as soon as information was available. I suppose it
also helps that after about that time, prices were lower for ICs.

Michael

 

[Winfield Hill]

legg wrote...

uA709 in 64/65
LM301 in 67
uA741 in 68
LM324 was in 74 supposedly, same year as RC4558.
CA3130 in 75

http://www.uoguelph.ca/~antoon/gadgets/741/741.html

This 1974 date doesn't match my memory. It may not stand up
to the records as we uncover them either. For example, NSC's
app note 88 shows the LM324 (it's dated July, 1973 and deals
with linear-mode applications for 74C04 cmos inverters). Keep
in mind early references to the LM324 may call it an LM124 -
it was NSC's habit to refer to the most expensive version.

I remember standing up at the JSSC conference presentation of
a new quad opamp IC and questioning the wisdom of such a part
because the PCB layout routing mess would be unappealing with
so many opamps in close proximity (I still prefer dual opamp
packages for most opamp circuit, except followers). I think
that happened in 1969 (naturally, no one paid any attention to
my objection).

I also designed the Siliconix L144 triple opamp into Sea Data's
products in 1972, IIRC, well before the 1974 date given by the
author for the first multi-opamp chip.

Thanks,
- Win

 

[Spehro Pefhany]

This 1974 date doesn't match my memory. It may not stand up
to the records as we uncover them either. For example, NSC's
app note 88 shows the LM324 (it's dated July, 1973 and deals
with linear-mode applications for 74C04 cmos inverters). Keep
in mind early references to the LM324 may call it an LM124 -
it was NSC's habit to refer to the most expensive version.

ISTR that dratted LM3900 quad Norton amplifier came out a year or two
before the LM324, and was the first quad amplifier product.. does that
match with your recollection?

I also designed the Siliconix L144 triple opamp into Sea Data's
products in 1972, IIRC, well before the 1974 date given by the
author for the first multi-opamp chip.

There was the 4741 somewhere in there too.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

 

[Nicholas Brown]

Michael Black wrote...

Dozens of chips more than 30 years old are still in
full-scale production. Some, like the 741, 555, 324
and the 723, etc., are still massively made and used,
in part because they get the job done and they're very
inexpensive. They may go under various names, such as
UA723, LM723, MC1723, CA723, KA723, SA723, JL723, SG723,
and NJM723 for the venerable voltage-regulator IC, but
they're certainly out there, probably for prices well
under 10 cents in quantity.


Thanks,
- Win

What about the 6502 ? Wasnt it available in the 60s ?
Its still popular; http://t.webring.com/hub?ring=6502webring

BTW, anyone remember the Kim-1 ?
http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?st=1&c=149

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

What about the 6502 ? Wasn't it available in the 60s ?
Its still popular; http://t.webring.com/hub?ring=6502webring

No, it wasn't around in the '60s.

 

[Michael Black]

What about the 6502 ? Wasnt it available in the 60s ?
Its still popular; http://t.webring.com/hub?ring=6502webring

BTW, anyone remember the Kim-1 ?
http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?st=1&c=149

Nope. I don't think any IC CPUs were available in the sixties.
The Intel 4004 was something like 1971.

The 6502 came out in 1975. A few issues into the run of Byte,
I think it was the November issue, there was an article about this
real cheap CPU. Well, they were talking the 6501 (which was pinout
compatible with the 6800), but it likely never got to production
because Motorola didn't like the compatible pinout.

Michael

 

[Michael Black]

legg wrote...

This 1974 date doesn't match my memory. It may not stand up
to the records as we uncover them either. For example, NSC's
app note 88 shows the LM324 (it's dated July, 1973 and deals
with linear-mode applications for 74C04 cmos inverters). Keep
in mind early references to the LM324 may call it an LM124 -
it was NSC's habit to refer to the most expensive version.

The LM324, or the LM124 for that matter, is not in the June 1972
National databook.

However, the LM3900 is in there.

I thought one reason the Norton Amplifier got such attention
right at the beginning was because it was designed for a single
polarity supply. Go through all the weirdness of those large
resistors and such because there wasn't much around that would
work well off a single polarity supply.

Once there were op-amps that worked close to the rails, such
as the LM324, there was little that they couldn't do that the
Norton amps could.

The 1974 edition (ie the first) of Walter Jung's IC Op-Amp Cookbook
makes no mention of the LM324, though it does have a section on
the LM3900.

Michael

 

[Tony Williams]

BTW, anyone remember the Kim-1 ?
http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?st=1&c=149

I bought a Rockwell AIM-65, which was very similar afair.

 

[Barry Lennox]

This 1974 date doesn't match my memory. It may not stand up
to the records as we uncover them either. For example, NSC's
app note 88 shows the LM324 (it's dated July, 1973 and deals
with linear-mode applications for 74C04 cmos inverters). Keep
in mind early references to the LM324 may call it an LM124 -
it was NSC's habit to refer to the most expensive version.

I have a Jun 73 NSC databook that lists the LM124/324, but the App
note guide published earlier that year lists neither.

Barry Lennox

 

[Spehro Pefhany]

I have a Jun 73 NSC databook that lists the LM124/324, but the App
note guide published earlier that year lists neither.

So maybe they are off by a year (or two?) on the LM324. AN-74
introduced applications of the LM339 and it is dated January 1973.

I notice that there's an 8-pin chip that's 1/4 an LM324 plus 1/4 an
LM339. Neat, but a lot more expensive than two 8 pin packages.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

 

[Winfield Hill]

Spehro Pefhany wrote...

So maybe they are off by a year (or two?) on the LM324. AN-74
introduced applications of the LM339 and it is dated January 1973.

OK, maybe the year was 1973, but I'm surprised it was so late.
Guess it was after the Norton amplifier.

I notice that there's an 8-pin chip that's 1/4 an LM324 plus 1/4
an LM339. Neat, but a lot more expensive than two 8 pin packages.

Right, the LM392. One big problem there, no 2nd source.

Newark offers it for $1.69 single, 0.59 qty 1k, which compares
to $0.49 and $0.14 for the LM324. That's 4.2x higher for the
'392 on a per element cost.

Thanks,
- Win

 

[Winfield Hill]

Winfield wrote...

Spehro Pefhany wrote...

Right, the LM392. One big problem there, no 2nd source.

Newark offers it for $1.69 single, 0.59 qty 1k, which
compares to $0.49 and $0.14 for the LM324. That's 4.2x
higher for the '392 on a per element cost.

Oops, 4x higher per package, 8x higher per element. !!!

Thanks,
- Win

 

[Mark Zenier]

What about the 6502 ? Wasnt it available in the 60s ?
Its still popular; http://t.webring.com/hub?ring=6502webring

No, January, 1976 is the date on the MOS Technology Hardware and Software
manuals. Remember, the designers did the MC6800 before that, at Motorola.
Circa 1974. But it wasn't until MOS Technology started selling the
65xx for $25 that things really got moving. The single quantity
price for the MC6800 and 8080 were in the range of $300 at that time.

Mark Zenier [email protected] Washington State resident