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Smoke detector and rechargeable 9V battery?

D

Don

Jan 1, 1970
0
because it s not recomended by the manufacturere?
 
F

FIRETEK

Jan 1, 1970
0
Because they tend to lose their charge faster over time and that varies with
the battery and how many times it's been charged. Nicad's also tend to
develop a "memory" which reduces their actual usefulness even more. It's
best to stick with a good quality alkaline battery and change the sucker
every year. I change ours on my wife's birthday. That way I can take care
of two whiners at once. :)
 
FIRETEK said:
Because they tend to lose their charge faster over time and that varies with
the battery and how many times it's been charged. Nicad's also tend to
develop a "memory" which reduces their actual usefulness even more. It's
best to stick with a good quality alkaline battery and change the sucker
every year. I change ours on my wife's birthday. That way I can take care
of two whiners at once. :)

Isn't a Lithium cell more potent thanan alkaline?
 
F

FIRETEK

Jan 1, 1970
0
Lithiums tend to have a longer useful life. I don't think they pack a more
potent charge. Most of the manufacturers recommend using alkaline batteries
and replacing them once a year.
 
R

Robert L Bass

Jan 1, 1970
0
Isn't a Lithium cell more potent thanan alkaline?

Lithium cells have a different discharge gradient from alkaline cells. When a typical alkaline cell reaches the point where the
detector starts to signal a low battery condition, there is a predictable remaining life in the cell. IOW, it will continue to
function for a sufficient period. IIRC, lithium cells degrade at a fairly steady rate and then drop off sharply. Assuming it's
lithium cells and not some other type of rechargeable cell that this applies to, that would make them unacceptable for use in many
smokes.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
941-866-1100
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>
 
Robert said:
Lithium cells have a different discharge gradient from alkaline cells. When a typical alkaline cell reaches the point where the
detector starts to signal a low battery condition, there is a predictable remaining life in the cell. IOW, it will continue to
function for a sufficient period. IIRC, lithium cells degrade at a fairly steady rate and then drop off sharply. Assuming it's
lithium cells and not some other type of rechargeable cell that this applies to, that would make them unacceptable for use in many
smokes.


Robert,

Thanks, finally a substantive answer.


The question still remains open however..

What is the time period that is required/needed to give ample beep
warnings to replace or recharge?
From Wikipedia:

"Some detectors are also being sold with a lithium battery that can run
for about 7 to 10 years, though this might actually make it less likely
for people to change batteries since their replacement is needed so
infrequently. By that time, the whole detector should be replaced.
Though relatively expensive, user-replaceable 9 volt lithium batteries
(in the same configuration as the common alkaline ones) are also
available. They should only be used in a fairly new detector."


I wonder if the lithium detectors have a different warning voltage?
 
D

Don

Jan 1, 1970
0
Robert,

Thanks, finally a substantive answer.

How can this be a substantive answer? YOU are talking about rechargable and
he is not.
I gave you the right answer numbnuts. if youre too dumb to understand then
so be it but don't insult those that have answered just because your too
dumb to understand the answer. Let me rephrase it for you: You use the
fragging batteries the fragging manufacturer fragging recommends.
 
G. Morgan said:
You already got the correct answer before RLB posted.


That's NOT what you asked; you asked: "Is there any reason, legal or
electrical why a rechargeable battery could not be used in a smoke
detector?"

Now, read the manual that came with the detector and follow
instructions. It will probably indicate an alkaline or lithium
battery IS acceptable. If you replace "lithium" with "rechargeable
batteries" in RLB's post you can extrapolate an answer to your second
question.
I did not know that there are any lithium batteries that may not be
charged.
 
F

Frank Olson

Jan 1, 1970
0
G. Morgan said:
Lithium batteries are NOT rechargeable. So the OP is talking about
NiMH or NiCad. What you say is true, if you're talking about NiMH or
NiCad cells.

9V Lithium batteries are the best choice for smoke detectors because
they last so long, as much as 10 years. You just can't recharge them.


Lithium batteries are NOT the "best choice" for smoke alarms. Making
such a generalized statement is both unprofessional and unsafe. Smoke
alarms are "life safety". The batteries should be replaced with new
ones once a year. Use a good quality NEW alkaline battery and *always*
follow the manufacturer's recommendations.
 
G

G. Morgan

Jan 1, 1970
0
Frank said:
Lithium batteries are NOT the "best choice" for smoke alarms.

Sure they are, they last longer.
Making
such a generalized statement is both unprofessional and unsafe.

It was a broad statement, I should have wrote "if the manufacturer
permits Lithium batts then they are the best choice".
Smoke
alarms are "life safety".

No shit?
batteries should be replaced with new
ones once a year. Use a good quality NEW alkaline battery

Making such a generalized statement is both unprofessional and unsafe.
and *always*
follow the manufacturer's recommendations.

Yeah, that's what I (and everyone else) said.

Just for giggles I went to the first manufacturer that google came up
with and picked a detector at random-- check it out

"Choosing a replacement battery:
Your Smoke Alarm requires one standard 9V battery. The following
batteries are acceptable as replacements: Duracell #MN1604, (Ultra)
#MX1604; Eveready (Energizer) #522. You may also use a Lithium
battery like the Ultralife U9VL-J for longer service life between
battery
changes. These batteries are available at many local retail stores."

http://www.brkelectronics.com/downl...smoke_alarms/Battery/manual_SA710_English.pdf

No where do they recommend replacing batts. yearly. I think the
battery marketing department came up with that baloney.
 
M

Mark Leuck

Jan 1, 1970
0
G. Morgan said:
Lithium batteries are NOT rechargeable. So the OP is talking about
NiMH or NiCad. What you say is true, if you're talking about NiMH or
NiCad cells.

Lithium batteries are rechargable
 
G

Guest

Jan 1, 1970
0
they dont hold charge long enough.

most alkaline will disharge slow enough to supply for a year.

most ni-cad ni-mh and other will retain adequate charge only for abt a
month, then need refresh

standard alkaline and zinc/acid batts actually create power from a chemical
reaction,

recharge types ones are only poor storage devices.
 
they dont hold charge long enough.

most alkaline will disharge slow enough to supply for a year.

most ni-cad ni-mh and other will retain adequate charge only for abt a
month, then need refresh

standard alkaline and zinc/acid batts actually create power from a chemical
reaction,

recharge types ones are only poor storage devices.

http://www.sanyo.com/batteries/lithium_ind.cfm

Lithium Batteries
What is a Lithium Battery?
It's a battery that uses lithium metal or a lithium aluminum alloy in
its negative electrode (anode) and manganese dioxide in its positive
electrode (cathode). SANYO's primary lithium battery (CR series) was
first released in 1976 and its secondary (rechargeable) lithium battery
(ML series) was released in 1989. These batteries meet market needs
with their high technology and superior quality.

CR Series Features


High operating voltage of 3V and high energy density

Wide operating temperature range: -40°C to 85°C (depending on type)

Low self-discharge rate (0.5% per year at room temperature)

High capacity cylindrical type

UL approved

SO9002 certified
ML Series Features


High operating voltage of 2.5V

Wide operating temperature range: -20°C to 60°C

Low self-discharge rate (2% per year at room temperature)

Superior charge and discharge cycle

Able to charge at 2.8V

UL approved
 
R

Robert L Bass

Jan 1, 1970
0
Thanks, finally a substantive answer.
How can this be a substantive answer?
YOU are talking about rechargable and
he is not.

I was replying to FIRETEK's post. He mentioned lithium. I assumed he
(firetek) was referring to lithium ion rechargeable batteries. What I
said applies to rechargeable batteries in general though.

Regards,
Robert L Bass
www.BassBurglarAlarms.com
941-866-1100
 
T

Tommy

Jan 1, 1970
0
You have been given answers to your question, and still want to argue your
point.

Either use a battery that the manufacturer reccommends, be it alkaline or
lithium or hamster in a wheel connected to a generator.

OR, do what you so desperately want to do and want us to approve of (which
no one here most likely will) and accept the consequences. I know what i
would do.
RTFM and follow the instructions




they dont hold charge long enough.

most alkaline will disharge slow enough to supply for a year.

most ni-cad ni-mh and other will retain adequate charge only for abt a
month, then need refresh

standard alkaline and zinc/acid batts actually create power from a
chemical
reaction,

recharge types ones are only poor storage devices.

http://www.sanyo.com/batteries/lithium_ind.cfm

Lithium Batteries
What is a Lithium Battery?
It's a battery that uses lithium metal or a lithium aluminum alloy in
its negative electrode (anode) and manganese dioxide in its positive
electrode (cathode). SANYO's primary lithium battery (CR series) was
first released in 1976 and its secondary (rechargeable) lithium battery
(ML series) was released in 1989. These batteries meet market needs
with their high technology and superior quality.

CR Series Features


High operating voltage of 3V and high energy density

Wide operating temperature range: -40°C to 85°C (depending on type)

Low self-discharge rate (0.5% per year at room temperature)

High capacity cylindrical type

UL approved

SO9002 certified
ML Series Features


High operating voltage of 2.5V

Wide operating temperature range: -20°C to 60°C

Low self-discharge rate (2% per year at room temperature)

Superior charge and discharge cycle

Able to charge at 2.8V

UL approved
 
M

Mark Leuck

Jan 1, 1970
0
G. Morgan said:
No, lithium batteries are the ones used in motherboards and the ones
that come with 5800 series wireless for example. *Lithium-ion*
batteries ARE rechargeable, they are used in cell phones, laptops,
etc..

Two different batts.

It's still Lithium, next time try a legal disclaimer or something
 
F

FIRETEK

Jan 1, 1970
0
G. Morgan said:
Sure they are, they last longer.

Picking a battery for a smoke alarm must be predicated on four things:

1. It's gotta be "cheap"
2. It's gotta be easy to replace (ie. easy to find)
3. It's gotta meet the manufacturer's requirements
4. Whether it's designed to last for one year (or five), the replacement
interval must be fixed. We're all "creatures of habit". It's far easier
for me to remember my wife's birthday and use a good quality alkaline. If
you're bent on using lithiums and you figure you can get five years from the
sucker then perhaps setting February 29th as the replacement date might work
for you (that comes around every four years). If your smoke alarm consumes
more power, you might wind up on the "short" side of the equation, and often
with little (or no) warning.

It was a broad statement, I should have wrote "if the manufacturer
permits Lithium batts then they are the best choice".

"Broad statements" have gotten more guys into trouble in this Group than
Bush at a WMD rally.


"Choosing a replacement battery:
Your Smoke Alarm requires one standard 9V battery. The following
batteries are acceptable as replacements: Duracell #MN1604, (Ultra)
#MX1604; Eveready (Energizer) #522. You may also use a Lithium
battery like the Ultralife U9VL-J for longer service life between
battery
changes. These batteries are available at many local retail stores."
http://www.brkelectronics.com/downl...smoke_alarms/Battery/manual_SA710_English.pdf


Considering this would have "definitively answered" the OP's question, it
would have been better to have posted this in the first place.

No where do they recommend replacing batts. yearly. I think the
battery marketing department came up with that baloney.


No actually, most AHJ's recommend that, and for good reason. I wouldn't
rely on a "low battery warning" signal from a detector that I picked up at
Walmart for $8.95, would you?
 
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