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Smart LCR tweezers LCR Pro1-Russian RLC tweezers HB-14

Discussion in 'General Electronics Discussion' started by caps, May 1, 2019.

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  1. caps

    caps

    155
    8
    Jul 29, 2018
    Measurement of inductance at a frequency of 100 kHz.
    Such small values have not yet been measured in my practice.
    A short piece of copper wire.
    LCR Pro1.
    0.0931nH
    0.0931nH.jpg
    HB-14.
    000.8nH
    000.8nH.jpg
     
  2. SHA_S

    SHA_S

    14
    0
    May 25, 2019
    Throw your LCR Pro1 in the trash! :)
    But seriously, there are inductances on the nano Henry, and not pieces of incomprehensible wires!
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2019
  3. caps

    caps

    155
    8
    Jul 29, 2018
    The result presented is the price of firewood in Canada.
    LCR Pro1 correctly measured everything with the greatest possible accuracy.
     
  4. caps

    caps

    155
    8
    Jul 29, 2018
    The measurement is so small inductance that it is practically not available to Russian tweezers HB-14.
    0.0115nH.
    0.0115nH.jpg
     
  5. caps

    caps

    155
    8
    Jul 29, 2018
    Let me explain where the idea of measuring the inductance of 4cm copper wire came from.
    Accidentally on the Internet came across an image of a similar dimension.
    10kHz.
    4cm.
    0.03uH
    l________4___180.jpg
     
  6. SHA_S

    SHA_S

    14
    0
    May 25, 2019
    That's right, the НВ-14 is not able to determine such small inductances, this is directly stated in its technical characteristics.
    If you are more attentive to information received from the Internet, then you can see that the negative inductance in the photo! What says about the uncalibrated device! This was also mentioned in the discussion on the forum.
    P.S. The smallest inductance found in the "Murata" catalog is 0.4nH.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2019
  7. caps

    caps

    155
    8
    Jul 29, 2018
    I hope, we have seen enough in many examples that the Canadian tweezers LCR Pro1 have higher technical characteristics for all types of measurements compared to the Russian tweezers HB-14.
    Two times smaller, much lighter, does not require constant calibration,has accurate, gold-plated tips.
    It has a certificate confirming that the tweezers comply with all declared characteristics.
    It has the output of information on the computer, which is very necessary in different dimensions.
    It has a test voltage of 1 volt, which is very important for the correct measurement of ceramic capacitors.
    Very simple and convenient menu that does not require extra time and does not distract from the measurement process.
    Practically not replaceable when measuring in the circuit. Excellently cope with complex in-circuit measurements, where other tweezers are practically powerless.
    There are no competitors in measuring the ESR of different types of capacitors, almost ideally measuring this parameter.
    And the main feature of the tweezers is undoubtedly the micrometer. That allows you to search for the smallest short circuits in the board that are not available to other tweezers.
    In practice, this is a radio electronic mini-laboratory.
    Thanks to the Canadian engineers for the great and difficult work done.
    I hope this project will develop further, because as you know, there is no limit to perfection.
    PS When working with different RLC meters, refined and made with my own hands, I honestly was pleasantly surprised and amazed by the accurate measurement of small values of resistance, ESR and inductance.
    Many of the unique results I achieved were easily repeated and confirmed.
    What says about the truth of these results.
    After all, these values were obtained in two different ways - simple analog and complex, using modern digital methods of calculation and processing.
    So time and great efforts were not wasted.
    This means that there is justice and it is worth fighting for it.
    :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2019
  8. SHA_S

    SHA_S

    14
    0
    May 25, 2019
    LCR Pro1 is still far from the stability of the readings of the non-main parameter of the Russian NV-14 in most of the measurements! On the presented photos everything looks great, but on the video available on the Internet everything is much sadder. Similarly, the diagnostic speed of the LCR Pro1 capacitor loses the HB-14 at least 2 times, since can not measure at the same time the capacity and ESR at 100 kHz. Also HB-14 immediately performs a reconciliation of the ESR of the capacitor with the tables of the manufacturer and gives the finished result that allows you to diagnose the capacitor even faster!
     
  9. caps

    caps

    155
    8
    Jul 29, 2018
    To make it clear to everyone how these two tweezers differ, I will give a very good example.
    Capacitor Rubycon ZLH Low impedance 1000uF / 35V. Max.impedance (100kHz) -0,017Ohm.
    http://www.rubycon.co.jp/EN/CATALOG/E_PDFS/ALUMINUM/E_ZLH.PDF
    My precision tweezers.
    ESR-0.008Ohm.
    ESR 0,5-100mOhm.jpg
    LCR Pro1.
    ESR-8.0284mOhm.
    8.0284Ohm.jpg
    HB-14.
    ESR-0.016Ohm.
    HB-14.jpg
    Draw your own conclusions.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2019
  10. SHA_S

    SHA_S

    14
    0
    May 25, 2019
  11. caps

    caps

    155
    8
    Jul 29, 2018
    And here is another good example.
    The electrolytic capacitor 220uF is in a state of short circuit. The capacitance is almost absent.
    But the Russian tweezers HB-14 shows complete nonsense. What else can you expect from a home-made tester?
    C-351uF
    ESR-0.024Ohm
    :oops:
    351uF.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2019
  12. SHA_S

    SHA_S

    14
    0
    May 25, 2019
    This nonsense says that the capacitor is short-circuited, and the device's beeper does not cease to remind the same!
    HB-14 shows 351.0 mF, i.e. 351000 uF, if someone does not understand, i.e. nonsense refers specifically to the capacitor and not the device!
    P.S. Such simple things should be understood by everyone who is at least a little versed in measurements, or at least read the instruction manual HB-14!
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2019
  13. caps

    caps

    155
    8
    Jul 29, 2018
    Here we mentioned some super-capabilities of Russian tweezers HB-14 to compare the ESR measurement results with the manufacturer’s datasheets.
    This is complete nonsense, which has nothing to do with practice, the problems of increasing the ESR of capacitors, as well as leading to an incorrect definition of the suitability of capacitors.
    I will give an example.
    Standard aluminum capacitor Samxon 1000uF/10v.
    C-555.5nF
    ESR-139.6Ohm
    Tweezers show that the capacitor is good.
    :oops:
    555.5nF.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2019
  14. SHA_S

    SHA_S

    14
    0
    May 25, 2019
    HB-14 shows that the capacitor at 10V with a capacity of 555.5nF is suitable for operation at a constant current, or low frequency. If this tells caps that a 1000 μF / 10 V capacitor, with such measured parameters, is suitable for further operation, then the flag is in his hands! For such bold statements you need to be a very talented person!
     
  15. caps

    caps

    155
    8
    Jul 29, 2018
    Naturally, after such a “analysis” of a 1000uF capacitor, which is catastrophically bad, such a tweezer is only in a trash can.
     
  16. SHA_S

    SHA_S

    14
    0
    May 25, 2019
    A talented person is talented in everything, and this also applies to talented conclusions after measuring a dried condenser!
     
  17. caps

    caps

    155
    8
    Jul 29, 2018
    Very good.
    0,1uF/63v.
    LCR Pro1.
    ESR-3.2113Ohm.
    0,1uF 63v.jpg
     
  18. SHA_S

    SHA_S

    14
    0
    May 25, 2019
    What's so good about it? My Chinese capacitor jackcon 0.1mkF / 10V resistance at 100 kHz less than 2 ohms. But what does it matter if the impedance is several times greater for such small capacitance values?
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2019
  19. caps

    caps

    155
    8
    Jul 29, 2018
    As we know, there are electrolytic capacitors, the capacity of which is in the range of 0.1-1 uF.
    ESR measurement of such capacitors is associated with certain difficulties. Very few amateur radio circuits are able to do this with maximum accuracy.
    Recently I finished work on the ESR meter for this range. The meter differs in that it has an almost linear scale up to 20 Ohm.
    The frequency is 100kHz.
    Test voltage-sine, 50mV.
    Now there is something to compare, and make sure that the ESR meter works correctly.
    Very good.
    0,1uF 50v.
    LCR Pro1.
    ESR-1.6857Ohm
    1.6857Ohm.jpg
    ESR meter 100kHz.
    1.68Ohm.
    1.68Ohm.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2019
  20. caps

    caps

    155
    8
    Jul 29, 2018
    ESR meter 100kHz.
    3.2Ohm
    3,2Ohm.jpg
     
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