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Skin Effect in Solid/Stranded/Litzendraht Wire -Guy Macon

Discussion in 'Electronic Design' started by Guy Macon, Oct 10, 2007.

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  1. Rich Grise

    Rich Grise Guest

    Show us one, then, along with the detailed theory of operation.

    Otherwise, shut up and go away.

    Thanks,
    Rich
     
  2. Rich Grise

    Rich Grise Guest

    When I was much younger and stupider, a friend and I climbed
    one of those hi-line towers, and could actually reach out
    and touch some of the wires (luckily, they were insulated!).
    I actually felt the 60 Hz electrical field around the wire,
    which was about 1" in diameter. I don't know what the
    voltage was, but it was very exciting. (no pun intended.)

    Cheers!
    Rich
     
  3. No that's wrong: neither the lead nor any other shield
    would help to reduce the 60Hz magnetic field strength,
    which comes from the magnitude of the ac current, and
    the separation (and lack of twist) of the cables. As
    it happened, we found the strength of the field in our
    labs was a bit weaker than from our own poorly-done
    electrical-conduit wiring. Which we had already dealt
    with in sensitive experiments.
     
  4. No that's wrong: neither the lead nor any other shield
    would help to reduce the 60Hz magnetic field strength,
    which comes from the magnitude of the ac current, and
    the separation (and lack of twist) of the cables. As
    it happened, we found the strength of the field in our
    labs was a bit weaker than from our own poorly-done
    electrical-conduit wiring. Which we had already dealt
    with in sensitive experiments.
     
  5. John Larkin

    John Larkin Guest

    I'm doing wiring this week (a new employee kitchen/lunchroom) so I got
    a little RatShack amplifier/speaker box and wired a Renco drum-core
    inductor to it, as a mag field probe, to trace wiring. It's really fun
    to wave around other things, like monitors and keyboards and such. An
    iPod starting up makes very strange sounds.

    As I walk around, I get various 60 Hz things with no obvious source.

    John
     

  6. **** off, GriseTard. YOU go the **** away.
     
  7. JosephKK

    JosephKK Guest

    ChairmanOfTheBored posted to
    sci.electronics.design:
    You could pick on something actually significant, but no you are
    attacking irrelevancies. Do go on making a total ass of yourself.
    Try another total lie.
    It is inseparable from the horizontal deflection circuit.
    Both proving yourself wrong and hoisting on yourself your own petard
    simultaneously.
    What is your disunderstanding? Maxwell's equations work pretty well
    if you can learn how to use them like i have.

    BTW i do not have a neurosis of self-importance like you seem to.
     
  8. Robert Baer

    Robert Baer Guest

    ** More accurately and confusingly, what is a "pant", what is a
    "scissor", and what is a "plier"?
     
  9. Tom Bruhns

    Tom Bruhns Guest

    Almost always true, Joseph, but even if it weren't, that does not mean
    that the deflection circuit is NOT a flyback circuit. Even the
    vertical deflection circuit is a flyback circuit. I did once have a
    monitor in which the HT supply was a completely separate unit, but
    that's pretty rare. But for sure, the magnetic deflection circuits
    are designed as flyback circuits to rapidly reset the magnetics for
    the start of the next scan.

    Cheers,
    Tom
     
  10. Tom Bruhns

    Tom Bruhns Guest

    Thanks for the input. However, my further research into this,
    including conversations with engineers who actually design and install
    power transmission systems, makes it clear that the real answer isn't
    anywhere near that simple. It's been fun to look into this more
    deeply and learn a little more about the infrastructure that delivers
    electrical power to us. The answers are out there for anyone
    interested enough to look for them.

    Cheers,
    Tom
     
  11. John Larkin

    John Larkin Guest

    Of course it's a flyback. A single tube or transistor drives the
    horizontal deflection coil and the HV transformer simultaneously. It's
    sort of a neat coincidence that the same drive waveform works for
    both.

    The earliest b&w teevee sets had a separate, 60 Hz transformer-based
    anode supply, operating at low kilovolt level. The dual-use flyback
    trick made higher voltages affordable.


    John
     
  12. Rich Grise

    Rich Grise Guest

    The _earliest_ TV sets didn't need HV - they had a light bulb and
    a perforated disk. :)

    If there's only one TV, why is it called a "set"?

    Why do they wear a _pair_ of panties but only one bra? ;-)
    -- Gallagher

    Cheers!
    Rich
     
  13. Joel Koltner

    Joel Koltner Guest

    Because early TVs often had the CRT proper (and its power supply?) separate
    from the tuner?
     

  14. The retarded asswipe called me a liar when I said that I have been
    working on HV PS over the last decade.

    One of our supplies was a super anode supply made for Hughes Aircraft
    that went into a big three CRT projector (beside it, actually) that was
    the old standard in aircraft theater systems.

    It was a switcher, and it fed a huge three way HV splitter that was
    potted in about a pound of high performance RTV encapsulant. One big, low
    corona Silicone HV wire in, and three medium diameter high performance
    Silicone HV wires out with anode cups on them.

    The projector was over three feet long, and about 27" wide and about 8
    inches thick. The tubes were almost the entire length of the chassis,
    and were like 6" in diameter. That retrace was small and quick...

    I wonder if he has enough brains to know why special relativity comes
    into play on an anode supply for large CRT tube sizes.
     
  15. No, Johnny. SOME designs are flyback circuit driven. Some are not.
    No, Johnny. In a flyback circuit, that is how SOME of them are driven.
    There are plenty of other types of anode supplies in use that are NOT
    flyback driven.
    Special relativity is included in some cases as well. That still doesn't
    mean that all anode supplies for all TVs are flyback circuit driven,
    idiot.
    COM for consumer devices is one thing. Commercial and industrial, as
    well as military applications used other, more hardy methods.

    I have made NON-flyback driven anode supplies for the steady cam
    monitors in use on nearly all of Hollywood's steady cams. NOT a flyback
    anode drive. It uses the same high brightness, daylight viewable
    Thompson tube used in the F-4 Phantom.

    For Hughes Aircraft in flight theater projectors. NOT a flyback anode
    drive.

    For General Electric medical imaging CRTs. NOT a flyback anode drive.

    All are high reliability applications. All are not flybacks.

    Consumer flybacks puke if you cough the wrong way when they are on.
     
  16. Because it requires a SET of circuits to make it operate.
    The fruit smashing idiot.
     
  17. John Larkin

    John Larkin Guest

    In TV sets?
    Well, they're not in LCDs, or plasma displays, or those TI light
    deflector things. But I doubt you can find a CRT-based TV that doesn't
    drive the horizontal deflection coil and the flyback transformer from
    the same device.

    Are there any TVs that have separate drivers?
    Please tell us.
    And none are TV sets.


    John
     
  18. krw

    krw Guest

    Tooth brush. Though perhaps Dimbulb invented it.
     

  19. We were talking about CRTs. ALL CRTs.
     
  20. John Larkin

    John Larkin Guest

    YOU said this:

    "A TV deflection circuit is NOT a flyback supply, idiot. The flyback
    in a TV is in the ANODE supply, you stupid ****."

    Remember?

    Weasel time, again? Go for it.

    John
     
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