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Single Supply Op-Amp

K

Ken McDonald

Jan 1, 1970
0
Can someone recommend a single supply op-amp with better specs than an
LM358?

Thanks,

Ken McDonald
 
R

Repzak

Jan 1, 1970
0
Ken McDonald said:
Can someone recommend a single supply op-amp with better specs than an
LM358?

What are you needs ?

which application ?

Rail to Rail ?

Kasper
 
K

Ken McDonald

Jan 1, 1970
0
Repzak said:
What are you needs ?

I guess I'm looking for a single supply dual general purpose op-amp that has
higher gain and higher slew rate than an LM358. Something newer I guess.
which application ?

I'm working on an infrared receiver right now, but am always throwing some
kind of amplifier circuit together.
Rail to Rail ?

Rail to Rail would be nice, but definitely want the output to go to ground.

Ken
 
C

CFoley1064

Jan 1, 1970
0
Subject: Re: Single Supply Op-Amp
From: "Ken McDonald" [email protected]
Date: 10/30/2004 2:10 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email protected]>




I guess I'm looking for a single supply dual general purpose op-amp that has
higher gain and higher slew rate than an LM358. Something newer I guess.


I'm working on an infrared receiver right now, but am always throwing some
kind of amplifier circuit together.


Rail to Rail would be nice, but definitely want the output to go to ground.

Ken

Hi, Ken. Usually, the LM358/LM324 are looked at as starting points. They're
popular because of the balance of features at a dirt-cheap price.

I'm hearing:
Single supply dual op amp
Higher gain than LM358 (GBW = 0.7 MHz)
Higher slew rate (SR = 0.3V/us)
Other than that, everything else at least as good as an LM358.

Of course, you'll have to pay more. One good choice for a "super LM358" is the
OP292, available from Analog Devices. The non-improvements include:

Minimum single supply = 4.5V
More expensive: DigiKey Prices
LM358NNS-ND $0.54 ea.
OP292GS-ND $3.02 ea.

Everything else is a plus. Check it out:

http://www.analog.com/UploadedFiles/Data_Sheets/882565314OP292_492_b.pdf


Good luck
Chris
 
P

Pooh Bear

Jan 1, 1970
0
Ken said:
Can someone recommend a single supply op-amp with better specs than an
LM358?

You don't *have* to use so called 'single supply' op-amps for single
supply applications.

It depends on the application.

So called 'single supply' op-amps usually include ground in the input
common mode spec - that's the point of them.

AC coupled signals as per the OP's example don't need this.

What's the application - then a sensible suggestion can be made.


Graham
 
P

Pooh Bear

Jan 1, 1970
0
Ken said:
Rail to Rail would be nice, but definitely want the output to go to ground.

No op-amp that I know of has an output that actually goes to *ground*. For the
simple reason that there will be an active device between the output terminal
and the ground ( V- ) terminal.

CMOS types may typically get within a few tens of millivolts.

If we knew more about what you're doing it would help. Of course the output can
go to ground if you're working with split supplies.


Graham
 
N

Norm Dresner

Jan 1, 1970
0
Pooh Bear said:
ground.

No op-amp that I know of has an output that actually goes to *ground*. For the
simple reason that there will be an active device between the output terminal
and the ground ( V- ) terminal.

CMOS types may typically get within a few tens of millivolts.

If we knew more about what you're doing it would help. Of course the output can
go to ground if you're working with split supplies.


Graham

The output can go to ground if you're willing to use a pull-down resistor on
the output. There's at least one IC OpAmp that was made with an on-chip
resistor that way.

Norm
 
B

Bill Sloman

Jan 1, 1970
0
Ken McDonald said:
I guess I'm looking for a single supply dual general purpose op-amp that has
higher gain and higher slew rate than an LM358. Something newer I guess.


I'm working on an infrared receiver right now, but am always throwing some
kind of amplifier circuit together.


Rail to Rail would be nice, but definitely want the output to go to ground.

Ken

There are lots of parts around that satisfy that constraint, and more
every year.

The Linear Technology LT1006 (single), LT1013 (dual) and LT1014 (quad)
parts were introduced early on to satisfy the demand for something
slightly better than the LM324/LM358. Go to

http://www.linear.com/

and dig up the data sheets - I've checked that they exist, but I
suspect that the URL's that got me to them might not work the same way
for a second enquiry.

Farnell stocked the LT1013 and LT1014 the last time I looked, but the
LT1006 was a bit harder to get hold of.
 
W

Winfield Hill

Jan 1, 1970
0
Bill Sloman wrote...
Farnell stocked the LT1013 and LT1014 the last time I looked,
but the LT1006 was a bit harder to get hold of.

DigiKey stocks them. The Linear Technology version is expensive,
e.g. LT1013CN8 at $4.25 each, but the TI LT1013CP version is more
reasonably priced, at $1.40. Both feature a nice low 300uV max
offset voltage. As far as the LT1006 single opamp is concerned,
DigiKey has this LTC-only part, $2.88 each. It's getting scarce.
 
W

Winfield Hill

Jan 1, 1970
0
Winfield Hill wrote...
Bill Sloman wrote...

DigiKey stocks them. The Linear Technology version is expensive,
e.g. LT1013CN8 at $4.25 each, but the TI LT1013CP version is more
reasonably priced, at $1.40. Both feature a nice low 300uV max
offset voltage.

I should add that the LT1013 is a favorite of mine, over the LM358.
And in the cases where four opamps are handy, the LT1014 of course.
For cost-sensitive designs, there's TI's LT1013DD, $0.43 qty 1k,
with 800uV max input offset.

Besides a low offset voltage, these chips have circuitry to prevent
phase reversal (* see below). There's more, as LTC says, "Although
supply current is only 350mA per amplifier, a new output stage
design sources and sinks in excess of 20mA of load current, while
retaining high voltage gain. ... Crossover distortion, so apparent
on previous single-supply designs, is eliminated."

* "At the input, the driving signal can fall below 0V— inadvertently
or on a transient basis. If the input is more than a few hundred
millivolts below ground, two distinct problems can occur on previous
single supply designs, such as the LM124, LM158, OP-20, OP-21, OP-220,
OP-221, OP-420:
a) When the input is more than a diode drop below ground, unlimited
current will flow from the substrate (V – terminal) to the input.
This can destroy the unit. On the LT1013/LT1014, the 400W resistors,
in series with the input (see Schematic Diagram), protect the devices
even when the input is 5V below ground.
b) When the input is more than 400mV below ground (at 25°C), the input
stage saturates (transistors Q3 and Q4) and phase reversal occurs at
the output. This can cause lock-up in servo systems. Due to a unique
phase reversal protection circuitry (Q21, Q22, Q27, Q28), the LT1013/
LT1014’s outputs do not reverse, as illustrated below ..."
 
J

John Crighton

Jan 1, 1970
0
* "At the input, the driving signal can fall below 0V— inadvertently
or on a transient basis. If the input is more than a few hundred
millivolts below ground, two distinct problems can occur on previous
single supply designs, such as the LM124, LM158, OP-20, OP-21, OP-220,
OP-221, OP-420:
a) When the input is more than a diode drop below ground, unlimited
current will flow from the substrate (V – terminal) to the input.
This can destroy the unit. On the LT1013/LT1014, the 400W resistors,
in series with the input (see Schematic Diagram), protect the devices
even when the input is 5V below ground.
b) When the input is more than 400mV below ground (at 25°C), the input
stage saturates (transistors Q3 and Q4) and phase reversal occurs at
the output. This can cause lock-up in servo systems.


Thank you for that explanation.

Years ago, I struggled trying to fix a problem in a Benmar
model 210 small ship auto-pilot.

A 50 foot luxury pleasure craft was sold to the third owner at
the same marina and the auto-pilot on board this vessel, from
new, had never worked, according to the boat yard workers.
Many people over the years had a go at trying to fix it for
the previous owners.
As soon as the auto-pilot was engaged the boat would
just skew off to starboard. The boatyard workers were
having a laugh at me as one of the many head scratching,
technicians to look at this auto-pilot.

After struggling a while, I was getting a bit fed-up with the
derogatory remarks and continual "Have you fixed it yet?"
from one particular shipwright at the yard, so to get back
at my tormentor I decided to take the whole auto-pilot
and interconnecting cables back to the workshop.
That really pissed off the boatyard shipwrights because
they had to remove the beautifully polished wood panels
that the cables were hidden behind. That was a big job
to do without damaging the polished woodwork too much.

Back at the workshop where I could have the two control units,
compass and motor drive unit in front of me I went through the
auto-pilot, stage by stage, from compass unit to motor power unit.
One op amp in an LM324 (quad) was the culprit.
The output was phase reversed.
I could hardly believe it!
The output level was normal but just swinging the wrong way
when the compass/binnacle unit was turned by hand.
No wonder that fault was never picked up on board the vessel,
it was just too hard to find when the units that make up the auto-
pilot are spaced well apart on board the vessel.

A new chip was fitted and the auto pilot worked fine,
after all the preset pots had been re-trimed to somewhere
near where they should be. Funny how pots must be
tweaked when something doesn't work. :)

I told my work mates about the phase reversal fault and
they didn't believe me. I kept that faulty LM324 chip
because I could hardly believe it my self.

I made the mistake of telling the owner about the faulty
part. He wasn't impressed about paying hundreds of
dollars for a $2 dollar culprit. He coughed up the money
OK after he had some fun playing with the auto pilot on
his boat out in the estuary. I showed the owner how to
adjust the feedback pots so that a steady course with
mimimal hunting could be obtained. That eased his
wallet open also.

Thanks again for that explanation on the op amp phase
reversal problem.

Regards,
John Crighton
Sydney
 
T

Tim Shoppa

Jan 1, 1970
0
Winfield Hill said:
Bill Sloman wrote...

DigiKey stocks them. The Linear Technology version is expensive,
e.g. LT1013CN8 at $4.25 each, but the TI LT1013CP version is more
reasonably priced, at $1.40. Both feature a nice low 300uV max
offset voltage. As far as the LT1006 single opamp is concerned,
DigiKey has this LTC-only part, $2.88 each. It's getting scarce.

TI has some interesting parts if you know that you'll be working with
< 5V Vcc:

cheaper than the LT1013 is the LMV358

more expensive than the LT1013 is the TLV2472

I don't understand what in their manufacture limits these parts to
5V operation.

Tim.
 
W

Watson A.Name - \Watt Sun, the Dark Remover\

Jan 1, 1970
0
Tim Shoppa said:
TI has some interesting parts if you know that you'll be working with
< 5V Vcc:

cheaper than the LT1013 is the LMV358

more expensive than the LT1013 is the TLV2472

I don't understand what in their manufacture limits these parts to
5V operation.

I don't understand why TI needs to have pages and pages of opamps in the
mouser, etc. catalogs. Why so many almost identical parts..
 
R

RMC

Jan 1, 1970
0
The absolute maximum voltage spec for ICs (i.e., the 5V for these op amps)
is a function
of the process geometry -- the smaller the device geometries, the lower the
breakdown voltages.

A good rule-of-thumb for .5 micron and smaller geometry processes is that
the rated operating
voltage is 10x the process geometry, thus

0.13u = 1.1V
0.18u = 1.8V
..25u = 2.5V
..5u, .6u = 5V

Sometimes there are "think oxide" devices on a process, so you'll see
converters with a 2.5V analog supply
and a 3.3V digital supply - the thick oxide devices are used in the digital
I/O section only for the logic interface
to the outside wolrd and internally the logic runs at 2.5V.

As for the pages and pages of op amps, there are differences in ft; slew
rate; input offset voltage and current;
input bias current; input common mode voltage; output voltage swing and
output current; ability to drive a
capacitive load; input noise voltage and input noise current, and of course,
supply voltage and supply current.
Apply these differences to more than 20 years of op amp design and you can
see why there are pages and pages of parts!

Bob Clarke

PS: Analog Devices (my employer) also has lots of good op amps.
 
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