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Simple way to prove it works.....???......rossi/lenr....

Discussion in 'Home Power and Microgeneration' started by sno, Jan 25, 2012.

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  1. sno

    sno Guest

    Take a swimming pool fill with water.....measure temp of water after a
    period of time when pools temperature settles.....circulate water
    through device back to pool....measure with a simple thermometer rise in
    water temperature....video thermometer next to clock....then anyone can
    do the simple calculations to get approximate energy output.....

    Would also need volt/ammeter to get continuous energy input....

    If you truly have extreme energy output then you do not need extremely
    accurate measurements.....

    thank you for listening to my thoughts....have fun....sno

    --
    Correct Scientific Terminology:
    Hypothesis - a guess as to why or how something occurs
    Theory - a hypothesis that has been checked by enough experiments
    to be generally assumed to be true.
    Law - a hypothesis that has been checked by enough experiments
    in enough different ways that it is assumed to be truer then a theory.
    Note: nothing is proven in science, things are assumed to be true.
     
  2. Mho

    Mho Guest

    Wattmeters measures power. Voltage and current do not measure power and is
    commonly used by the scammers to fool the layperson.


    -----------
    "sno" wrote in message


    Take a swimming pool fill with water.....measure temp of water after a
    period of time when pools temperature settles.....circulate water
    through device back to pool....measure with a simple thermometer rise in
    water temperature....video thermometer next to clock....then anyone can
    do the simple calculations to get approximate energy output.....

    Would also need volt/ammeter to get continuous energy input....

    If you truly have extreme energy output then you do not need extremely
    accurate measurements.....

    thank you for listening to my thoughts....have fun....sno

    --
    Correct Scientific Terminology:
    Hypothesis - a guess as to why or how something occurs
    Theory - a hypothesis that has been checked by enough experiments
    to be generally assumed to be true.
    Law - a hypothesis that has been checked by enough experiments
    in enough different ways that it is assumed to be truer then a theory.
    Note: nothing is proven in science, things are assumed to be true.
     
  3. sno

    sno Guest

    OK....thank you for the correction....you can get a simple wattmeter for
    under 50 dollars....that will measure watts over time...for the claimed
    approximate input of 300 watts for pump a simple wattmeter would be
    sufficient.....

    I also forgot you would need the amount of gallons/liters in the pool..

    Since there would be losses in the sides of the pool and evaporation if
    you only got 1Kw of energy after calculations it would prove that it
    works....

    If you spread a bunch of radiators... a bunch ofcar radiators in
    series... on the bottom of the pool you would not even need something to
    stir the water.....normal thermal currents would spread the heat....

    An observer would not need to be a scientist or have any degree to
    verify the results...

    just some thoughts...have fun....sno


    --
    Correct Scientific Terminology:
    Hypothesis - a guess as to why or how something occurs
    Theory - a hypothesis that has been checked by enough experiments
    to be generally assumed to be true.
    Law - a hypothesis that has been checked by enough experiments
    in enough different ways that it is assumed to be truer then a theory.
    Note: nothing is proven in science, things are assumed to be true.
     
  4. sno

    sno Guest

    Mho....just a note...you can not get power direct from voltage and
    current....you can get resistance from e=ixr...once you have resistance
    applying to power formula p=i2xr will give you instantaneous power
    adding time will give you power over time...


    --
    Correct Scientific Terminology:
    Hypothesis - a guess as to why or how something occurs
    Theory - a hypothesis that has been checked by enough experiments
    to be generally assumed to be true.
    Law - a hypothesis that has been checked by enough experiments
    in enough different ways that it is assumed to be truer then a theory.
    Note: nothing is proven in science, things are assumed to be true.
     
  5. Mho

    Mho Guest

    Dealing with AC or irregular waveforms gets more complex than simple Ohm's
    Law.

    What if the current and voltage are not present at the same time? LOL

    I spent 35 years in legal metrology.


    --------------
    "sno" wrote in message
    Mho....just a note...you can not get power direct from voltage and
    current....you can get resistance from e=ixr...once you have resistance
    applying to power formula p=i2xr will give you instantaneous power
    adding time will give you power over time...
     
  6. sno

    sno Guest

    When dealing with true sine wave...the equivalent dc voltage is peak ac
    voltage times .707 (not sure of the number, is what I remember) has been
    years since I studied and used these formulas..do not remember if normal
    ac voltmeter reads average or the equivalent voltage..you are correct is
    more complicated if voltage/current varies...I spent years teaching
    basic and advanced electronic...which does not mean much..since was many
    years ago.....

    have fun....sno



    --
    Correct Scientific Terminology:
    Hypothesis - a guess as to why or how something occurs
    Theory - a hypothesis that has been checked by enough experiments
    to be generally assumed to be true.
    Law - a hypothesis that has been checked by enough experiments
    in enough different ways that it is assumed to be truer then a theory.
    Note: nothing is proven in science, things are assumed to be true.
     
  7. amdx

    amdx Guest

    and is commonly used by the scammers to fool the layperson.

    That brings up an interesting point, since all he needs is a heater,
    run it on DC and make the measurements a bit less complicated.
    Mikek
     
  8. Mho

    Mho Guest

    There is another factor using perfect sine waves.

    What if the voltage and current are not present at the same time?

    This is called "power factor". Now the power (perfect sine waves for both)
    becomes E x I x cos(theta).
    e.g. if you put a voltage across an inductive load and the phase angle lag
    of the current becomes 30 degrees to the voltage (as a reference) the power
    factor is 0.866025.

    VA is straight ExI

    RVA (reactive power) is E x I x sin(theta)

    TMI? Onlt power really matters. The rest is wasted in inefficiencies etc...

    For dirty waveforms it can get nuts.


    0.707 refers to the RMS value. This is the Square Root, of the Mean, of the
    Squares.
    Take a sine wave and dissect it at say 4 regular points. If the peak is 100
    then the points we have are
    0 deg. = cos(0) x 100V = 0V
    90 deg. = cos(90) x 100V = 100V
    180 deg. = cos(180) x 100V = 0V
    270 deg. = cos(270) x 100V = -100V

    Square all the values for 10K + 0 + 10K + 0

    Take the mean 20K / 4 = 5,000

    Take the SRoot(5,000) = 70.71067 Vac RMS.. Look familiar?



    Back at ya'...have fun!
    -------------

    "sno" wrote in message

    When dealing with true sine wave...the equivalent dc voltage is peak ac
    voltage times .707 (not sure of the number, is what I remember) has been
    years since I studied and used these formulas..do not remember if normal
    ac voltmeter reads average or the equivalent voltage..you are correct is
    more complicated if voltage/current varies...I spent years teaching
    basic and advanced electronic...which does not mean much..since was many
    years ago.....

    have fun....sno
     
  9. sno

    sno Guest

    Thank you for reminding/showing me how much I have forgotten....

    have fun....sno




    --
    Correct Scientific Terminology:
    Hypothesis - a guess as to why or how something occurs
    Theory - a hypothesis that has been checked by enough experiments
    to be generally assumed to be true.
    Law - a hypothesis that has been checked by enough experiments
    in enough different ways that it is assumed to be truer then a theory.
    Note: nothing is proven in science, things are assumed to be true.
     
  10. Mho

    Mho Guest

    In actuality I used a cosine wave in stead of a sine wave. This is a common
    error to draw one starting at zero amplitude.

    LOL

    I miss the good ole' days of hooking up circuits. The 0.05" spacing and the
    CPU wrecked that for me. It used to be cool to create a function using parts
    and pieces that did something cool. Now with software, why would I bother
    anymore?


    -----------
    "sno" wrote in message


    Thank you for reminding/showing me how much I have forgotten....

    have fun....sno


    -------------

    --
    Correct Scientific Terminology:
    Hypothesis - a guess as to why or how something occurs
    Theory - a hypothesis that has been checked by enough experiments
    to be generally assumed to be true.
    Law - a hypothesis that has been checked by enough experiments
    in enough different ways that it is assumed to be truer then a theory.
    Note: nothing is proven in science, things are assumed to be true.
     
  11. sno

    sno Guest

    Mho...

    I knew there was something about this I was forgetting (along with the
    rest)....you can get power directly from voltage and current...one of
    the power formulas is PIE...power equals current times voltage....check
    it out here....

    http://www.the12volt.com/ohm/ohmslaw.asp

    have fun...sno


    --
    Correct Scientific Terminology:
    Hypothesis - a guess as to why or how something occurs
    Theory - a hypothesis that has been checked by enough experiments
    to be generally assumed to be true.
    Law - a hypothesis that has been checked by enough experiments
    in enough different ways that it is assumed to be truer then a theory.
    Note: nothing is proven in science, things are assumed to be true.
     
  12. Vaughn

    Vaughn Guest

    Yes but remember that formula only works reliably with DC. AC is more
    complicated, and leaves room for charlatans to make deceptive claims.
    For a small example, note how cheap UPS devices are always rated in VA.
    They hardly ever mention watts. Why? Using VA and assuming a crazy
    power factor allows them to put a number on the box that is double the
    actual capacity of the unit.

    Vaughn
     
  13. Jim Wilkins

    Jim Wilkins Guest

    The true power rating is in the small print. My KillAWatt shows that the
    power factor or VA demand of computer power supplies is bad enough to
    justify the high VA rating of a UPS.

    It's like a swinging pendulum or a weight bouncing on a spring. There is a
    lot of motion but no power input behind it, only oscillation between kinetic
    and potential energy, or capacitive and inductive storage.

    The mathematics of the square root of minus one describe real and apparent
    power beautifully.

    jsw
     
  14. Mho

    Mho Guest

    Now three of us have attempted to explain that.

    Most of the "free energy" people do not understand the difference between
    energy and power, also.


    -------------
    "Jim Wilkins" wrote in message

    The true power rating is in the small print. My KillAWatt shows that the
    power factor or VA demand of computer power supplies is bad enough to
    justify the high VA rating of a UPS.

    It's like a swinging pendulum or a weight bouncing on a spring. There is a
    lot of motion but no power input behind it, only oscillation between kinetic
    and potential energy, or capacitive and inductive storage.

    The mathematics of the square root of minus one describe real and apparent
    power beautifully.

    jsw
     
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