# Simple way to prove it works.....???......rossi/lenr....

Discussion in 'Home Power and Microgeneration' started by sno, Jan 25, 2012.

1. ### snoGuest

Take a swimming pool fill with water.....measure temp of water after a
period of time when pools temperature settles.....circulate water
through device back to pool....measure with a simple thermometer rise in
water temperature....video thermometer next to clock....then anyone can
do the simple calculations to get approximate energy output.....

Would also need volt/ammeter to get continuous energy input....

If you truly have extreme energy output then you do not need extremely
accurate measurements.....

thank you for listening to my thoughts....have fun....sno

--
Correct Scientific Terminology:
Hypothesis - a guess as to why or how something occurs
Theory - a hypothesis that has been checked by enough experiments
to be generally assumed to be true.
Law - a hypothesis that has been checked by enough experiments
in enough different ways that it is assumed to be truer then a theory.
Note: nothing is proven in science, things are assumed to be true.

2. ### MhoGuest

Wattmeters measures power. Voltage and current do not measure power and is
commonly used by the scammers to fool the layperson.

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"sno" wrote in message

Take a swimming pool fill with water.....measure temp of water after a
period of time when pools temperature settles.....circulate water
through device back to pool....measure with a simple thermometer rise in
water temperature....video thermometer next to clock....then anyone can
do the simple calculations to get approximate energy output.....

Would also need volt/ammeter to get continuous energy input....

If you truly have extreme energy output then you do not need extremely
accurate measurements.....

thank you for listening to my thoughts....have fun....sno

--
Correct Scientific Terminology:
Hypothesis - a guess as to why or how something occurs
Theory - a hypothesis that has been checked by enough experiments
to be generally assumed to be true.
Law - a hypothesis that has been checked by enough experiments
in enough different ways that it is assumed to be truer then a theory.
Note: nothing is proven in science, things are assumed to be true.

3. ### snoGuest

OK....thank you for the correction....you can get a simple wattmeter for
under 50 dollars....that will measure watts over time...for the claimed
approximate input of 300 watts for pump a simple wattmeter would be
sufficient.....

I also forgot you would need the amount of gallons/liters in the pool..

Since there would be losses in the sides of the pool and evaporation if
you only got 1Kw of energy after calculations it would prove that it
works....

series... on the bottom of the pool you would not even need something to
stir the water.....normal thermal currents would spread the heat....

An observer would not need to be a scientist or have any degree to
verify the results...

just some thoughts...have fun....sno

--
Correct Scientific Terminology:
Hypothesis - a guess as to why or how something occurs
Theory - a hypothesis that has been checked by enough experiments
to be generally assumed to be true.
Law - a hypothesis that has been checked by enough experiments
in enough different ways that it is assumed to be truer then a theory.
Note: nothing is proven in science, things are assumed to be true.

4. ### snoGuest

Mho....just a note...you can not get power direct from voltage and
current....you can get resistance from e=ixr...once you have resistance
applying to power formula p=i2xr will give you instantaneous power
adding time will give you power over time...

--
Correct Scientific Terminology:
Hypothesis - a guess as to why or how something occurs
Theory - a hypothesis that has been checked by enough experiments
to be generally assumed to be true.
Law - a hypothesis that has been checked by enough experiments
in enough different ways that it is assumed to be truer then a theory.
Note: nothing is proven in science, things are assumed to be true.

5. ### MhoGuest

Dealing with AC or irregular waveforms gets more complex than simple Ohm's
Law.

What if the current and voltage are not present at the same time? LOL

I spent 35 years in legal metrology.

--------------
"sno" wrote in message
Mho....just a note...you can not get power direct from voltage and
current....you can get resistance from e=ixr...once you have resistance
applying to power formula p=i2xr will give you instantaneous power
adding time will give you power over time...

6. ### snoGuest

When dealing with true sine wave...the equivalent dc voltage is peak ac
voltage times .707 (not sure of the number, is what I remember) has been
years since I studied and used these formulas..do not remember if normal
ac voltmeter reads average or the equivalent voltage..you are correct is
more complicated if voltage/current varies...I spent years teaching
basic and advanced electronic...which does not mean much..since was many
years ago.....

have fun....sno

--
Correct Scientific Terminology:
Hypothesis - a guess as to why or how something occurs
Theory - a hypothesis that has been checked by enough experiments
to be generally assumed to be true.
Law - a hypothesis that has been checked by enough experiments
in enough different ways that it is assumed to be truer then a theory.
Note: nothing is proven in science, things are assumed to be true.

7. ### amdxGuest

and is commonly used by the scammers to fool the layperson.

That brings up an interesting point, since all he needs is a heater,
run it on DC and make the measurements a bit less complicated.
Mikek

8. ### MhoGuest

There is another factor using perfect sine waves.

What if the voltage and current are not present at the same time?

This is called "power factor". Now the power (perfect sine waves for both)
becomes E x I x cos(theta).
e.g. if you put a voltage across an inductive load and the phase angle lag
of the current becomes 30 degrees to the voltage (as a reference) the power
factor is 0.866025.

VA is straight ExI

RVA (reactive power) is E x I x sin(theta)

TMI? Onlt power really matters. The rest is wasted in inefficiencies etc...

For dirty waveforms it can get nuts.

0.707 refers to the RMS value. This is the Square Root, of the Mean, of the
Squares.
Take a sine wave and dissect it at say 4 regular points. If the peak is 100
then the points we have are
0 deg. = cos(0) x 100V = 0V
90 deg. = cos(90) x 100V = 100V
180 deg. = cos(180) x 100V = 0V
270 deg. = cos(270) x 100V = -100V

Square all the values for 10K + 0 + 10K + 0

Take the mean 20K / 4 = 5,000

Take the SRoot(5,000) = 70.71067 Vac RMS.. Look familiar?

Back at ya'...have fun!
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"sno" wrote in message

When dealing with true sine wave...the equivalent dc voltage is peak ac
voltage times .707 (not sure of the number, is what I remember) has been
years since I studied and used these formulas..do not remember if normal
ac voltmeter reads average or the equivalent voltage..you are correct is
more complicated if voltage/current varies...I spent years teaching
basic and advanced electronic...which does not mean much..since was many
years ago.....

have fun....sno

9. ### snoGuest

Thank you for reminding/showing me how much I have forgotten....

have fun....sno

--
Correct Scientific Terminology:
Hypothesis - a guess as to why or how something occurs
Theory - a hypothesis that has been checked by enough experiments
to be generally assumed to be true.
Law - a hypothesis that has been checked by enough experiments
in enough different ways that it is assumed to be truer then a theory.
Note: nothing is proven in science, things are assumed to be true.

10. ### MhoGuest

In actuality I used a cosine wave in stead of a sine wave. This is a common
error to draw one starting at zero amplitude.

LOL

I miss the good ole' days of hooking up circuits. The 0.05" spacing and the
CPU wrecked that for me. It used to be cool to create a function using parts
and pieces that did something cool. Now with software, why would I bother
anymore?

-----------
"sno" wrote in message

Thank you for reminding/showing me how much I have forgotten....

have fun....sno

-------------

--
Correct Scientific Terminology:
Hypothesis - a guess as to why or how something occurs
Theory - a hypothesis that has been checked by enough experiments
to be generally assumed to be true.
Law - a hypothesis that has been checked by enough experiments
in enough different ways that it is assumed to be truer then a theory.
Note: nothing is proven in science, things are assumed to be true.

11. ### snoGuest

Mho...

rest)....you can get power directly from voltage and current...one of
the power formulas is PIE...power equals current times voltage....check
it out here....

http://www.the12volt.com/ohm/ohmslaw.asp

have fun...sno

--
Correct Scientific Terminology:
Hypothesis - a guess as to why or how something occurs
Theory - a hypothesis that has been checked by enough experiments
to be generally assumed to be true.
Law - a hypothesis that has been checked by enough experiments
in enough different ways that it is assumed to be truer then a theory.
Note: nothing is proven in science, things are assumed to be true.

12. ### VaughnGuest

Yes but remember that formula only works reliably with DC. AC is more
complicated, and leaves room for charlatans to make deceptive claims.
For a small example, note how cheap UPS devices are always rated in VA.
They hardly ever mention watts. Why? Using VA and assuming a crazy
power factor allows them to put a number on the box that is double the
actual capacity of the unit.

Vaughn

13. ### Jim WilkinsGuest

The true power rating is in the small print. My KillAWatt shows that the
power factor or VA demand of computer power supplies is bad enough to
justify the high VA rating of a UPS.

It's like a swinging pendulum or a weight bouncing on a spring. There is a
lot of motion but no power input behind it, only oscillation between kinetic
and potential energy, or capacitive and inductive storage.

The mathematics of the square root of minus one describe real and apparent
power beautifully.

jsw

14. ### MhoGuest

Now three of us have attempted to explain that.

Most of the "free energy" people do not understand the difference between
energy and power, also.

-------------
"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message

The true power rating is in the small print. My KillAWatt shows that the
power factor or VA demand of computer power supplies is bad enough to
justify the high VA rating of a UPS.

It's like a swinging pendulum or a weight bouncing on a spring. There is a
lot of motion but no power input behind it, only oscillation between kinetic
and potential energy, or capacitive and inductive storage.

The mathematics of the square root of minus one describe real and apparent
power beautifully.

jsw