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siegfreid and roy and electronics

Discussion in 'Electronic Basics' started by cornytheclown, Oct 5, 2003.

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  1. It looks to me like with the technology today and the wealth that
    entertainers siegfreid and roy have that they would have some sort of
    backup gear like a shock collar or something to control those
    tigers........

    They said Sig and Roy have been operating since around 1960 with not
    even a scratch but fridays show with roy getting whipped around the
    stage like he was a ragdoll proves that you can never be too
    safe........you cant be too carefull with a cat that weighs over 3
    times your own body weight........

    I do not believe in caging or "training" normally wild animals like
    this for peoples enterainment....but it does seem like they could have
    had some sort of back up device like a strong shock collar to control
    or incapacitate the animal in such an event.

    From what I have read over the years... it appears to me that it would
    be possible to store enough energy in a battery powered collar device
    to at least incapacitate or distract the animal long enough for either
    a deadly weapon to be used or for the trainer to be taken to
    safety.....its just the time it would take an operator to activate the
    device versus the quickness of the animal that would be important.
     
  2. ---------------------
    People seem to like the danger, and then they whine when they get
    their neck snapped like a twig.

    In the future we will have either killed all dangerous animals, or
    rendered them obedient with brain controls and AI dedicated brain
    adjuncts. It will be illegal to even let something like that run
    around out of control anywhere on the earth's surface.
    -Steve
     
  3. A E

    A E Guest

    As long as we can put one in your 'brain' and control your unfortunate spewage
    on the Net, sure.
     
  4.  
  5. John Fortier

    John Fortier Guest

    Or, alternately, a shock collar on the "trainer" to give the lion or tiger a
    better chance!

    John
     
  6. A E

    A E Guest

    Look, seeing that humans will kill each other at the drop of a hat, your
    'suggestion' that 'in the future we will have either killed all dangerous animals',
    implies that YOU, monkey boy, should be the first in line to volunteer!
    You are an idiot, but an entertaining one.
     
  7. John Fortier

    John Fortier Guest

    Does "all dangerous animals" include humans?

    We've killed more of each other than any other species has managed, with the
    possible exception of the malaria mosquito.

    John
     
  8. Speaking as one who has worked with animals, I'm extremely pleased
    to say that shock collars, at least for exotic animal training, are an
    idea that went out with the 70's.

    A typical (extremely effective) method of discouraging a pissed-
    off big cat is to shoot off a CO2 fire extinguisher in front of them.
    The sudden eruption of noise and white stuff startles them away, and I
    have yet to see a case where it was not effective.
    While there is truth to this, it's also important to remember that
    anyone can make a mistake, and you are correct that no big cat is ever
    truly tamed.

    I've seen video of the Siegfried and Roy show, and it makes me
    cringe. They take way too many chances, and they're doing it for the
    fluff and sparkle of their idea of showmanship, rather than simply
    presenting what the cats are capable of. If something nasty happened,
    then I can only say that they brought it on themselves.
    I think you should try the shock collar idea on yourself. Seems
    like you need a bit of a jolt before you think of posting such drivel to
    Usenet.

    Do some reading on animal training techniques, and try talking to
    some actual trainers (preferably one of the veterans in the field, like
    Ron Whitfield), before you go fronting such asinine ideas about the use
    of deadly force on an endangered species.

    I'm not going to say anything more because I no longer trust
    myself to keep a civil tongue in my head.
     
  9. Fleetie

    Fleetie Guest

    We've killed more of each other than any other species has managed, with the
    That's really complete shite, isn't it? Did you stop even for a moment
    to think what you were posting then?

    Humans have only been around for a few tens of thousands of years.
    Many other species have ben around for millions, and also are
    far more numerous at any given moment than are humans.

    What a pile of asinine shite you posted!


    Martin
     
  10. John Fortier

    John Fortier Guest

    What the hell are you gibbering about, Martin? Has any other large animal
    killed millions of humans? Was Adolf Hitler a tiger, was Stalin a wolf or
    Pol Pot an aligator. Of course not. they and their minions were humans. We
    kill more of each other than any other large creature and how long we have
    been around has nothing to do with it.

    True, there are more termites than humans, more soldier ants and, for that
    matter, cockroaches But these creatures don't go our of their way to kill
    us. We do that for ourselves.

    Now, what's your problem with that, apart from the truth of it?

    By the way, if you disagree with me, there are far more telling and
    effective ways of letting me know that than posting badly spelled abuse.

    The origin of this thread was the scoreline "Tiger 1, Human 0" (at least
    temporarily). What I am trying to point out is that, even though animals
    such as tigers may consider us fair game, they don't kill as many of us as
    we do ourselves.

    And before anyone picks me up on it, I know perfectly well that wolves are
    deeply maligned and that there is no recorded case of a sane wolf attacking
    a human. In fact, in most ways, we could learn a lot from wolves.

    A large mammal known as John
     
  11. -------------------
    Futurists have no other alternative but to believe this will be so.
    It culminates a trend of us becoming master-predator-controller of
    the planet. If we do it right we'll keep and re-expand the forests,
    but it is we who will hunt/harvest and utilize the game that will
    result from forested areas, instead of raising cattle as we have
    been. Grass-fed free-range meat is MUCH better for us anyway,
    providing an almost entirely heavy-fat-free meat that the Diabetes
    Association nutritional guides indicate as low-fat as water-packed
    tuna!! This includes bison and elk, and other large and small
    species, while we retain a forest that has few or no dangers to us
    and where we will likely be living more and more by choice.

    As much as some think they are "cute", we do not absolutely need
    bears, lions, tigers, wolves, or any predators bigger than kitfoxes.
    We CAN husband the "wild", and we probably will.

    -Steve
     
  12. ---------------
    The right ones, yes.

    ------------------
    And everything else you're leaving out.

    We'll do away with human predators as well.
    It's simple futurism, inevitable.

    We're talking hundreds or thousands or millions of years here, if not
    billions.

    -Steve
     
  13. Look, seeing that humans will kill each other at the drop of a hat,
    The ecological footprint of meat raised for human consumption is so large as
    to make it totally unsustainable, even for the present human population of
    the planet. This is even more true of free-range, grass fed game animals.
    Even with greatly expanded forest lands, there is no way that meat could
    sustain us, unless your plan for the future includes a dramatic decline in
    the human population (which it probably does, judging from your posts).

    Also, have you given any though to the possible consequences of reducing
    global biodiversity by husbanding the "wild" like this? Is this the future
    that you think we should work towards, or is it the future you see as being
    most likely (but necessarily desirable)?

    Adam
     
  14. John Fortier

    John Fortier Guest

    This thread seems to have wandered quite a way from electronics, but - what
    the hell!

    We're not, probably, speaking about even thousands of years before nature
    bites us on the ass so hard our collective eyes pop out.

    How's this for depressing? There is a type of Ebola virus found in monkeys
    which is infectious, that is, spread by coughs and sneezes, but which has a
    mortality of only 10 to 15%,

    There is a type of Ebola virus, found in another type of monkey, which has a
    long incubation period and has a mortality of about 30%

    Then there is human Ebola which has a mortality of 90%, but which is not
    infectious, but rather contagious, that is spread by contact or direct
    exchange of fluids.

    Put those together in one virus and "boof! As by magic, they were gone!"

    And what would the Earth do? Pretty well ignore the entire episode.

    It may be later than we think.

    John
     
  15. -----------------------------
    That would be best for all of us. Though it need not be done by
    attrition, just creative surgery. Salpingectomy and abortion.

    ----------------------
    I like meat. Don't you? Well, others do too. You can either offer
    developing world people the same as you have, or kill them all.

    It is probably the only thing we CAN ACTUALLY get as a world outcome,
    given what people demand, AND it is the most desirable.

    -Steve
     
  16.  
  17. Getting OT here, but do you know that white tigers are already extinct in the
    wild, and if not for S&R and their extensive breeding program, might be
    completely extinct? Is the price in this case (being captive and made to
    perform) too high for the benefit (survival)?

    --
    --------------------

    Alan "A.J." Franzman

    Email: a.j.franzman at verizon dot net

    --------------------
     
  18. I thought the white tiger was a captive breed - a freak of nature that was
    selectively bred by some royal houses....

    -Dondo
     
  19. John Fortier

    John Fortier Guest

    It's not the 90% direct mortality rate that will finish us off, it's the
    collapse of every system and technology in the world which will do it.
    Does anyone imagine that anyone in New York City could survive such an
    event, for example.

    I cannot recall a historical episode where 90% of all humans were killed
    off. Could you let me know to what event you are referring. Oh, and could
    you define meta-species as well, please.

    Yes, there will be survivors, but cut any species down far enough and you
    have insufficient remaining numbers to ensure a breeding population. The
    survival of humans as a species would hang on a knife edge.

    Steve, I think your post indicates a little too much hubris to make me feel
    secure. What we should be doing is not assuming that we're too clever for
    nature to bite back, but rather to assume that it will happen and try to
    prepare for the eventuality.

    It probably won't help. And it needn't be Ebola. That was just an example.
    A comet strike, like the one that wiped out the dinosaurs and so many other
    species would wipe us out just as effectively. We probably wouldn't see it
    coming, and by the time we knew what was happening, it would be far too
    late.

    This post is depressing even me, but to assume that because we can build big
    rockets and clever computers and have wiped out smallpox, we are forever
    safe, just flies in the face of reason. The universe isn't friendly to us,
    we're all on this one little planet and anything which affects the whole
    planet affects us all as well.

    Ever heard of the Decan Trapps?

    John
     
  20. --------------------------
    Sure, we have to do the right things, like not take poison, in its
    many forms, but things can be forced in many ways without harm. Tell
    me what magical reason we'd need big cats for if we killed all the
    animals they would kill. I can't think of any good reason. There's
    no "magic".

    -------------------------
    You mean the plain in India that is a flat hard desert? It was
    screwed up by excessive intensive planting. It went desert.

    They have been reviving it lately and even bringing the water level
    back up again using Bill Mollison's Permaculture, which is ANOTHER
    example of a kind of intelligent "force" that humans can employ!

    -Steve
     
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