SIA, Contact ID, 4/2, 3/1

[JohnO]

Hey guys, it's been about three years since I was here pestering you for
basic info about alarm systems, and our training course needs an update, so
I'm back again. (Good to see you all still picking on each other.... ;-) )

The course I'm working on is based on CompTIA's new DHTI+ certification. One
of the certification domains covers security and surveillance systems, and
one of the sub-domains reads:

Monitoring Formats
-SIA and Contact ID
-4/2 and 3/2

I've done a basic google search of this group, and the web, and I haven't
found quite what I need. Or let's put it this way...I have an idea what
these terms mean, but can't find info that helps me understand them well
enough to explain it to someone else. Does someone know of a site or article
somewhere that describes these monitor data formats in basic terms? Your
discussions here in the NG tend towards the pro/con at a professional tech
discussion level, naturally, and I can't follow along with some of that.

Thanks!

-John O
Heathkit Ed Systems

 

[Bob La Londe]

Hey guys, it's been about three years since I was here pestering you for
basic info about alarm systems, and our training course needs an update, so
I'm back again. (Good to see you all still picking on each other.... ;-) )

The course I'm working on is based on CompTIA's new DHTI+ certification. One
of the certification domains covers security and surveillance systems, and
one of the sub-domains reads:

Monitoring Formats
-SIA and Contact ID
-4/2 and 3/2

I've done a basic google search of this group, and the web, and I haven't
found quite what I need. Or let's put it this way...I have an idea what
these terms mean, but can't find info that helps me understand them well
enough to explain it to someone else. Does someone know of a site or article
somewhere that describes these monitor data formats in basic terms? Your
discussions here in the NG tend towards the pro/con at a professional tech
discussion level, naturally, and I can't follow along with some of that.

Thanks!

-John O
Heathkit Ed Systems

I'll let Mark Leuck answer about SIA, but I can tell you about 4X2 3X2
and CID.

There is an old telephone calling method where you turn a little dial
and as the dial rotates back into place it momentarily breaks the
contact between the telephone and the telephone line. If it does it
nine times in a row without a pause then the phone has dialed the
number nine. ten a zero, three a three etc etc... Alarm panels took
advanatge of this format to send numbers to an alarm central station.
Its as reliable as your phone line's ability to rotary dial. I have
been told there are some telephone exchanges out there that no longer
support rotary dialing, but I have not personally worked on any except
private branch exchanges where that is the case.

In pulse format the panel is set to send a 3 or 4 digit string of
pulses for the account number and then a 1 or 2 digit string of pulses
for the alarm signal. The receiver sends a recongnition signal and
its done.

CID works basically the same way except it sends individual tones just
like a touch tone telephone. CID has an extended charachter set as it
supports 16 digits instead of the ten digits of a rotary format. This
gives the ability to assign more account numbers and more zones and
more information strings. Because CID just sends a momentary tone
insead of a string of pulses seperated by a pause for each digit in
can send the information much faster. This has two benefits. It can
be more cost effective from a time connected standpoint. It can also
allow for more information to be sent. In most CID format reporting
it sends the account number, a report type, and an identifier such as
a zone number or user number and sometimes partituion information.
Some panels like the P800/1 by Napco send an abbreviated CID format,
and some like the FBII XL4 allow you to redefine the CID types.

One possible disadvantage to CID is that it can get distorted beyond
the ability to recognize the individual tones by over utilized long
distance carriers. Basically their service sounds like two tin cans
on a string. It is echoey and distorted. This is often caused by
over compressing the voice data to force it over limited bandwidth.
The human ear can discern variations in sound and often voice users
don't complain because they can get the message, but the hardware is
looking for clean clear tones.

Also, some manufacturers and some older models of panels don't
implement CID well. I have experienced that the FBII XL3 and XL31
seem to have problems in CID mode and send the signals over and over
again. I have also experience random lockups during testing with some
FireLite panels sending CID.

In general I prefer to send CID because:

1. It costs me less money.
2. Sends more precise information
3. Because the types of signals received are predefined it reduces the
likelihood of programming screwups by technicians.

However:
Whenever I have a problem with funky communications problems I switch
to pulse format and see if the problem goes away.

I hope this is a good basic laymans description of how it works so
that you can wrap your mind around it.

 

[Bob La Londe]

I'll let Mark Leuck answer about SIA, but I can tell you about 4X2 3X2
and CID.

There is an old telephone calling method where you turn a little dial
and as the dial rotates back into place it momentarily breaks the
contact between the telephone and the telephone line. If it does it
nine times in a row without a pause then the phone has dialed the
number nine. ten a zero, three a three etc etc... Alarm panels took
advanatge of this format to send numbers to an alarm central station.
Its as reliable as your phone line's ability to rotary dial. I have
been told there are some telephone exchanges out there that no longer
support rotary dialing, but I have not personally worked on any except
private branch exchanges where that is the case.

In pulse format the panel is set to send a 3 or 4 digit string of
pulses for the account number and then a 1 or 2 digit string of pulses
for the alarm signal. The receiver sends a recongnition signal and
its done.

CID works basically the same way except it sends individual tones just
like a touch tone telephone. CID has an extended charachter set as it
supports 16 digits instead of the ten digits of a rotary format. This
gives the ability to assign more account numbers and more zones and
more information strings. Because CID just sends a momentary tone
insead of a string of pulses seperated by a pause for each digit in
can send the information much faster. This has two benefits. It can
be more cost effective from a time connected standpoint. It can also
allow for more information to be sent. In most CID format reporting
it sends the account number, a report type, and an identifier such as
a zone number or user number and sometimes partituion information.
Some panels like the P800/1 by Napco send an abbreviated CID format,
and some like the FBII XL4 allow you to redefine the CID types.

One possible disadvantage to CID is that it can get distorted beyond
the ability to recognize the individual tones by over utilized long
distance carriers. Basically their service sounds like two tin cans
on a string. It is echoey and distorted. This is often caused by
over compressing the voice data to force it over limited bandwidth.
The human ear can discern variations in sound and often voice users
don't complain because they can get the message, but the hardware is
looking for clean clear tones.

Also, some manufacturers and some older models of panels don't
implement CID well. I have experienced that the FBII XL3 and XL31
seem to have problems in CID mode and send the signals over and over
again. I have also experience random lockups during testing with some
FireLite panels sending CID.

In general I prefer to send CID because:

1. It costs me less money.
2. Sends more precise information
3. Because the types of signals received are predefined it reduces the
likelihood of programming screwups by technicians.

However:
Whenever I have a problem with funky communications problems I switch
to pulse format and see if the problem goes away.

I hope this is a good basic laymans description of how it works so
that you can wrap your mind around it.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

P.S. Most pulse format panels are capable of reporting upto sixteen
digits in pulse format also, but I always tended to use lower digits
when possible to reduce reporting time.

 

[JohnO]

I hope this is a good basic laymans description of how it works so

that you can wrap your mind around it.

That's an excellent description, Bob. Thanks a bunch.

-John O

 

[Bob La Londe]

That's an excellent description, Bob. Thanks a bunch.

-John O

Don't forget that both pulse and CID formats can use 16 digits, not
just 10 to an alarm receiver. My initial description seemed to say
otherwise.

 

[Frank Olson]

Appendix A: Reporting Codes

"Appendix A" of what? It's usually polite to also quote your source.

 

[Marc]

Thanks for all the help to the group:

Unlocked the Vista 15P (Monitronics) board just to play around with
it.....will work locally only as fields *41-46 are locked out in the
firmware (EE code). No problem, just wanted to see if it was doable.
Also played with my copy of Compass software and a Hayes Optima
144....works great with the 150W resistor and tip/ring jumpering to
simulate a dialtone using the software with Telco handoff option. Just
trying to learn that part of it as well......Compass is complicated and
I don't understand all the fields. I do want to be able to back up my
Lynx-REN panel info as well as the same system I installed in Mom's
house. I'm also maintaining my Dad and Stepmom's system-changed over
the Monitronics 15P to a Vista 20P (generic) with Zone 1 hardwired, Zone
2 a wired motion sensor, and then about six or seven wireless devices
with the 5882H and 5827BD keypad.....it all works fantastic!

PS who do you all recommend for the best bang for buck monitoring? I
have been using NextAlarm personally for the past two years and have
been happy with them in terms of response time, etc (although a little
worried they may be raisng rates again)...Also like the Internet
features although I just use the landline for dial out-I can also
remote-control some X-10 stuff this way. Thanks for all the suggestions
and advice!

Marc

 

[JohnO]

I'll let Mark Leuck answer about SIA, but I can tell you about 4X2 3X2

and CID.

(I've been out of town a few days...) I appreciate the SIA code list, but
that doesn't give me much in the way of the SIA Big Picture. Help me out,
Mark...

After a bit of googling, I found some posts from 2002 that say SIA is a
modem-based approach, where SIA has defined the signaling protocols and
alarm codes.

Questions: Is SIA widely used? Why or why not? Still 110 and 300 baud? ---Is
the idea that 110/300 is plenty fast enough for a pile of codes, and more
reliable than V.42bis and all that new fast stuff? These modems, are they
typically standard external boxes with serial cables, or built into the
panel or mainboard?

Thanks!

-John O

 

[Frank Olson]

One thing I have thought about it is, that using the latest higher
speed transmission format has it's own problem. How long does it take
two modern modems to negotiate a connection? 5-10 seconds? It seems
(from what I've noticed over the years), that the faster the overall
transmission speed, the longer it takes to actually negotiate the
connection and sync the signals. To transmit the CID, that two tone
signal takes about a half second? By the time the latest protocol has
been extablished, the older formats have finished sending their
signal. There's not a tremendous amount of data needing to be sent (a
few bits at most), so having to negotiate a high speed connection
seems to me to be a waste of time. Of course, that's just MY opinion,
I could be wrong

Yep... You are. If you think about the limitations of some of the
older formats... Let's say on a 83 zone system... I'd like to see you
dream up the zone communication scheme for that in 4/2.

 

[Robert L Bass]

One thing I have thought about it is, that using the latest higher
speed transmission format has it's own problem. How long does it
take
two modern modems to negotiate a connection? 5-10 seconds? It seems
(from what I've noticed over the years), that the faster the
overall
transmission speed, the longer it takes to actually negotiate the
connection and sync the signals...

There's a reason for that. If you're using a multi-format receiver,
it sends each possible handshake tone, waits a second or two, tries
again (or not) and then sends the next one, repeating until the
communicator hears a tone it likes and begins transmitting. I used a
number of different receivers over the years. The last ones were O/H
QuickAlert II. Because we used almost exclusively Ademco CID once it
became available, I had O/H make us a set of custom chips. Our
receivers would first try Contact ID, then pulse, etc. This shaved a
few seconds off the connect time for newer systems.

BTW, I said "receivers" as in two of them. We were small. We only
needed one 4-line receiver and another for backup. O/H machines
rarely failed. Other than when we tested it the backup receiver
never was used.

I don't know if newer receivers offer custom configuration. Also,
the delay between trying various formats may be shorter (or longer).
You might want to inquire of your receiver manufacturer if there's an
option. O/H was always very accommodating in the old days. Now that
they've been "assimilated" (apologies to Bugs) they might not be so
responsive. :^)

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
941-925-8650
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>

 

[Frank Olson]

Ancient technology, SurGard's MLR-2000 and System III remember the last
working format then gives it as the first handshake the next time the panel
calls

"custom chips"? LOL!

He obviously doesn't eat at McDonald's.

How cheap, a backup receiver but no backup central station tsk tsk

Of course he had a "backup". If the "primary" central went down, he'd
unplug the receiver on his nightstand and "hot foot transfer" it to the
garage telephone outlet.