selling power to the grid

[David L. Jones]

I've claims of people with solar installations selling excess power back
into the grid, but this tends to be in articles or promotional material, and
seems more of an implication that it *could* be done rather than actually
happening. I guess the inverter would have to be synchronised to the mains
frequency, but to actually get power to flow into the grid it'd have to
output a voltage marginally higher than the grid voltage?

It's for real and it's easy, all you need is a "grid inverter", you
can buy them off-the-shelf:
http://www.solarcharge.com.au/products/inverters/
http://www.solarshop.com.au/grid connect solar page.htm

Go to the national Sustainable House Day on Sep 9th and you can see a
whole bunch of open houses with grid connect systems.

Dave.

 

[David L. Jones]

**Well, yes, but you are neglecting several facts and probabilities:

* Solar cells are falling (slowly) in price and increasing (slowly) in
efficiency.

All we need is for the price of a grid connected solar system to drop
to $8/W and you can install one for free thanks to the government
rebate.
I'm patiently waiting...
In the mean time I'm happy to pay 17c/kWh or so to have it delivered
via the grid.

Dave.

 

[Mauried]

All we need is for the price of a grid connected solar system to drop
to $8/W and you can install one for free thanks to the government
rebate.
I'm patiently waiting...
In the mean time I'm happy to pay 17c/kWh or so to have it delivered
via the grid.

Dave.

The problem with rebates is that generally the price of what is being
rebated goes up to suit the rebate.
You can buy Solar Cells now for $8 a watt, but the typical
installation cost of a 1KW Grid tie system is around $14K or more.
Thats $6K for the installation and the Invertor , doesnt really add
up.
Rebates usually dont work as they drive up the demand for Solar Cells
which is what is keeping the prices high.
It would make more sense for Governments to build their own Solar Cell
plants and make the Solar Cells at cost and then just sell them to the
public.
Much better than just lining the pockets of solar cell manufacturers.

 

[NL]

im on the grid, just looking to see if its worth doing.

not using much in the way of electrical appliances, gas stove, hot water and
heating powered by a bank of lpg cylinders.

so mainly lighting , and the usual, tv, computer, probably the highest
draining items would be washing machine and dryer.

pretty much looking at using it as a getaway so power demand would not be
constant.
but if i was to stay there for a week or so i would need a system that i can
draw power off 24/7

 

[kreed]

im on the grid, just looking to see if its worth doing.

not using much in the way of electrical appliances, gas stove, hot water and
heating powered by a bank of lpg cylinders.

so mainly lighting , and the usual, tv, computer, probably the highest
draining items would be washing machine and dryer.

pretty much looking at using it as a getaway so power demand would not be
constant.
but if i was to stay there for a week or so i would need a system that i can
draw power off 24/7

At this point, financially it isn't worth doing. If there is enough
demand and/or government pressure, better solar panels will certainly
be developed in the future, just like how almost every other item in
the world has been improved and developed over time.

 

[Mauried]

At this point, financially it isn't worth doing. If there is enough
demand and/or government pressure, better solar panels will certainly
be developed in the future, just like how almost every other item in
the world has been improved and developed over time.

It really depends on what you mean by better Solar Panels.
Better Solar Panels are being made everyday, the efficiency
is now hitting 40% which is a lot better than the 12% we are currently
used to.
If by better Solar panels, you mean cheaper ones, theres not much
evidence that theres going to be much change.
I know of no current technology that will substantially reduce the
price in $ per watt of Solar panels.
Better solar panels yes, cheaper ones , unlikely.
And there is huge demand for cheaper solar panels.
But most manufacturers seem to want to make better ones.

Which is better.
A 12% solar panel that costs $5 a watt or a 40% solar panel
that costs $15 a watt.

 

[Dorfus Dippintush]

It really depends on what you mean by better Solar Panels.
Better Solar Panels are being made everyday, the efficiency
is now hitting 40% which is a lot better than the 12% we are currently
used to.
If by better Solar panels, you mean cheaper ones, theres not much
evidence that theres going to be much change.
I know of no current technology that will substantially reduce the
price in $ per watt of Solar panels.
Better solar panels yes, cheaper ones , unlikely.
And there is huge demand for cheaper solar panels.
But most manufacturers seem to want to make better ones.

Which is better.
A 12% solar panel that costs $5 a watt or a 40% solar panel
that costs $15 a watt.

In the consumer society it's only dollars per watt that counts. If
you're sending a satellite into orbit then you might want to look at
efficiency. After that you only compare the cost of the setup over a
period of years. At this point solar looses against grid power. Do the
maths.

Dorfus

 

[Trevor Wilson]

im on the grid, just looking to see if its worth doing.

not using much in the way of electrical appliances, gas stove, hot water
and heating powered by a bank of lpg cylinders.

**OK, so far.

so mainly lighting , and the usual, tv, computer, probably the highest
draining items would be washing machine and dryer.

**A CLOTHES DRYER??!!! Get real. Clothes dryers are the most easily
replacable, almost useless drains on power. Get rid of it. Don't even
think about using one on a Solar power system.

pretty much looking at using it as a getaway so power demand would not
be constant.
but if i was to stay there for a week or so i would need a system that i
can draw power off 24/7

**Then think VERY CAREFULLY about high drain devices. Clothes dryers,
indeed!

Trevor Wilson

 

[Mr.T]

It would make more sense for Governments to build their own Solar Cell
plants and make the Solar Cells at cost and then just sell them to the
public.
Much better than just lining the pockets of solar cell manufacturers.

When a government no longer believes in government hospitals, government
schools, government roads, government provided public transport, government
owned banks or government provision of any essential services in fact, then
government run factories are never going to happen!

They do however like providing tax-payer subsidies to any business that
contributes sufficiently to their election campaign funds. This will
obviously continue for the foresee-able future.

MrT.

 

[David L. Jones]

im on the grid, just looking to see if its worth doing.

not using much in the way of electrical appliances, gas stove, hot water and
heating powered by a bank of lpg cylinders.

so mainly lighting , and the usual, tv, computer, probably the highest
draining items would be washing machine and dryer.

pretty much looking at using it as a getaway so power demand would not be
constant.
but if i was to stay there for a week or so i would need a system that i can
draw power off 24/7

It's not worth doing at the moment. A lot of hassle, and a lot of
money. But if you have money to burn, by all means...
If you want to be be eco-friendly the easiest thing you can do is
switch to 100% Green power from wind or solar. Origin Energy provide
the best plan for this. Costs you about an extra 6 cents per kWh or
so. Anything cheaper is not true 100% green power from new
infrastructure.
You should do this anyway regardless of if you install a solar system
or not.

Dave.

 

[eddie]

If they did we could just sell them back the power we buy from them and
make a
nice profit for doing absolutely nothing.

Almost -
Synergy W.A. will buy your peak electricity for about 3x what you buy it
from
them during off-peak. They have a problem in summer with excessive amounts
of cheap inefficient Chinese made air conditioners drawing more load than
the network can handle.
The peak is during the middle of the day, off-peak is at night.
you must have a "smart meter" installed.
see:
http://www.synergy.wa.gov.au/PDF_Do...GY_BUYBACK_SCHEME_(REBS)_INFORMATION_PACK.pdf

what is the tariff structure in your state?

 

[Ross Herbert]

SNIP

Almost -
Synergy W.A. will buy your peak electricity for about 3x what you buy
it from them during off-peak.

That sounds like the kind of sales pitch one would expect from a
Synergy employee.

The relationship between what they pay you for power during peak
periods compared to what they sell it for during off-peak periods is
totally irrelevant since they still only pay you 10/11ths of the rate
at which you buy from them irrespective of the period.
http://www.synergyenergy.com.au/Residential_Segment/Green_Energy/Sale_&_Purchase_Rates.html

 

[tuppy]

Solar panels $4W in Japan!!

I'm currently visiting Japan, going through all the electronic
hobbyist areas but my focus is on solar panels and inverters. I am
amazed to find the odd house here and there covered in solar panels.
(They have 15 nuclear reactors around Japan supplying Tokyo
electricity).
I asked a friend to introduce me to someone into solar and gathered
some interesting info. solar panels are cheap here!!
Cost is about AU$4 Watt retail! That is with no govt rebate or
anything. why are we being ripped off in Australia. The rebate is a
scam.

You can order online here

http://www.solarmake.com/

http://555-801.com/taiyou03m.html

I am looking at what customs will charge me in inport duty if I try to
bring some back with me.
130W panel weighs 17kg.

 

[Mauried]

Solar panels $4W in Japan!!

I'm currently visiting Japan, going through all the electronic
hobbyist areas but my focus is on solar panels and inverters. I am
amazed to find the odd house here and there covered in solar panels.
(They have 15 nuclear reactors around Japan supplying Tokyo
electricity).
I asked a friend to introduce me to someone into solar and gathered
some interesting info. solar panels are cheap here!!
Cost is about AU$4 Watt retail! That is with no govt rebate or
anything. why are we being ripped off in Australia. The rebate is a
scam.

You can order online here

http://www.solarmake.com/

http://555-801.com/taiyou03m.html

I am looking at what customs will charge me in inport duty if I try to
bring some back with me.
130W panel weighs 17kg.

Rebates are like subsidies.
They usually drive up the local prices by the amount of the subsidy.
Because there are so few PV Manufacturers In Australia, its
essentially a Monopoly Market.
Ive been watching closely the cost of installing grid tie solar
systems since the rebate was increased to $8K, and surprise, surprise
the install costs have magically gone up to match the increase of the
rebate.

 

[eddie]

10/11 is just the same rate as what you pay from them minus the GST.
If that is a big problem, talk to the fed govt, or maybe you can do a deal
if you are registered for GST?
Compare this to what is on offer from other elect supply bodies in Aus.

btw, I don't work for synergy, ross, but I am a customer, just like every
resident in Perth