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Seeking Technical Partner

Discussion in 'Electronic Design' started by George, Feb 16, 2005.

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  1. George

    George Guest

    We have a general design on paper for a DSP product that has excellent
    commercial prospects. Patent application was filed in December. Prior to
    seeking financing to roll the product out through a startup company,
    however, we want to build a minimal working prototype.

    We need a DSP guru on our team to do the prototype design and then to take
    over DSP engineering for the new company once startup capital is
    secured. In exchange for your part-time work over the short term to help
    develop the prototype you will have equity in the new company, and of course
    when it is funded your position would be salaried.

    This is potentially a long-term relationship and ground-floor opportunity.
    The prototype development phase will be much easier if you are located in
    Southern California so we can collaborate as much as needed.

    The prototype: Input to the device will be a standard NTSC video baseband.
    The device will make timing measurements on certain baseband components,
    perform some straightforward calculations on the measured timing data, and
    send the calculation results out on a serial data user interface. The final
    product (not necessary for the prototype) will go further by adding an RF
    front end and demodulator.

    This is a serious opportunity. We have a track record of successful
    startups and development of products based on TI and AD DSPs that our
    company sold worldwide. We need DSP talent for this new product and the
    startup that will own it: hence the reason for this ad :eek:)

    If interested please respond to [email protected] Further details
    can be provided to qualified parties under a non-disclosure agreement.


  2. Joel Kolstad

    Joel Kolstad Guest

    What part of this requires a 'DSP guru?' If it's as straightforward as you
    suggest, any competent engineer with some DSP experience should be able to
    pull it off.

    BTW, the likelihood that you'll find a 'DSP guru' willing to initially work
    for nothing in exchange for a probabilisitically tiny chance of a large
    windfall is pretty negligible. If I were you, I'd shoot for 'hungry young
    engineer with demonstrated competence, no family to support, ino immediate
    need of health insurance or other benefits, willing to re-locate, etc...'
  3. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, and pink pigs will fly.
    Obviously not. If you had done so, you would have the funds to pay
    somone the going rate.
    Your dreaming mate. "Dreaming... Dreaming is free..." -

    Kevin Aylward
    SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode
    Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture,
    Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.
  4. A patent tends to be an indication of trivial halfbaked
    stuff to be sold for steep prices. The so called invention
    height is more often than not infinitesimally small.
    This means if there is money pouring in, the first share
    goes to the lawyer.

    Where is this company with the track record ?

  5. Nico Coesel

    Nico Coesel Guest

    If you where succesful before, you should have enough money to hire a
    DSP guru and give the product the startup it deserves.
  6. Luhan Monat

    Luhan Monat Guest


    I've been in on a few 'startup' companies. Its not like you're going to
    make a million dollars - you have to start out with a million dollars!
  7. George

    George Guest

    Jeeez ... look at the above replies! What could cause such bitterness?

    Seems to me that if you're predisposed to think negatively about new things,
    with no information on which to base such conclusion, you'll never be able
    to benefit from them. And dousing others' interest and opportunities for no
    reason is even worse. Get the facts, then judge.

    That's my opinion, anyway. But then, what do I know?

  8. George, engineers get propositioned like this all the time. Its a stock
    joke. Think of if like this :

    You have a technical talent you have developed by hard work. You are the
    kind of guy that makes something work when others give up, you do the
    documentation, you chase the special part, you attack the uncertainties.
    This builds character - you come to understand that the world yields what
    you put into it - if you are lucky.

    Then business people proposition you. They have a great idea, they know
    little about the tech side, and would you share in the risk by supplying
    labour, equipment and often parts. This is almost zero input from them - if
    it doesn't work, they walk away. If it works, they get a reward. It is
    like betting with someone elses money. These people understand that the
    world yields to smart operators.

    I find that these people are running multiple schemes to make a quick buck -
    they are scouting for cheap property they can sell on, they do a quick
    import on a batch of goods, they buy and sell. They know that not all deals
    work out - and you are just one of the things they are trying.

    What these people don't know is that it takes dedication, time and real
    money to build a business based on a tech product. 5 or 10 years of work
    may be needed. These people are often not skilled in the tech business
    aspect, and so are likely to fail anyway.

    I have had numerous people come to my office to offer me "equity" for
    development. After you have been done over a few times, you learn to
    refuse. It gets so that you can pick the sleazes straight off. You can
    also pick the genuine ones - they pay for your services and if they succeed
    they deservedly keep the profits.

    I know a guy who got promised a share in a startup and worked hard. The
    business guy tricked him out of his share of the company and made $$. He
    got suckered a second time. On his third time, I told him what was
    happening and he got out. Very bitter man.

    What the post really means is : "Will screw naiive technical person - apply

  9. George wrote:

    There is no emotion in the replies. They are based on sound practical
    understanding of the issues involved in getting new products to market.
    Prior experience of daft requests like this and past experience of what
    actually works.
    Ideas are 10 a penny. Essentailly, all fail.
    We know what the facts are, they are trivially obvious to any
    experienced engineer.

    Simon Cowell telling those 49,800 from 50,000 suck is the best thing
    that can be said to such clueless wannabes.
    The facts are, that a clueless dude is posting to a NG for some sucker.
    Nothing about this particular subject.

    Kevin Aylward
    SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode
    Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture,
    Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.
  10. "The only guaranteed way to make a small fortune, is to start with a
    large one, and lose some of it"

    Kevin Aylward
    SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode
    Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture,
    Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.
  11. I read in that Roger Lascelles
    Well, it might not; a more charitable interpretation might be:

    'Will tolerate and even cultivate Naive Technical Person as long as said
    person is necessary for the project. NTP may then, if it suits our plans
    at that time, be screwed.'
  12. Guest

    Some engineering advice to you, George:

    In practise, non-implemented ideas cost nothing.
    You may start to talk about your new product _only_
    after you have completed a fully working prototype
    which other people can use ("beta testing phase").

    Russian regards,
  13. Chris Gentry

    Chris Gentry Guest

    I understand what george is going through. I myself am sitting on a great
    idea. I know that
    people screw other people all the time, and it makes them predisposed to
    refuse all offers. However there are those (like myself) that really would
    like to make an idea happen, but have little or no money to work with. I
    recently put an ad on here asking for estimates on a possible design
    project. (Since I'm not the sleaze and would like to pay people for their
    work.) However, I've got bids from 1k all the way to > 10k. My problem with
    that is, it will probably cost less than 100 dollars for the parts. I can
    program the PIC myself, and the reason I even asked on here is because I
    don't know all the technical aspects of how the parts interact with each
    other. (Such as: do I need a decoupling cap here? Or a pullup resister
    there? etc...) What I really need is a schematic and I can build the
    circuit and test it myself. This, however, has proven to be difficult. No
    one will give me a price on just the schematic. Everyone wants to build the
    circuit and test it, since they don't want to give me something that doesn't
    work. Now this requires they have a full understanding of what this will
    do, and also that they spend alot more time on it, coding and everything. I
    just need to know how to hook the stuff together, in the best possible way.
    And any good technical person should be able to do that in little or no
    time. If it doesn't work right, then I should be able to post the schematics
    on here, and someone will surely tell me what is wrong with the
    ircuit. -Chris
  14. Fred Bloggs

    Fred Bloggs Guest

    Quite a few people on the NG are posers and you wouldn't want to pay
    them anything- they have no business or profession and the ridiculously
    high estimate for a general purpose prototype is just a part of their
    costume. There are many very cheap prototyping kits for the PIC with
    which you can test proof of principle for under $100. From there you can
    take it to contract manufacturing.
  15. What bitterness ? Why not just pick up the piles of money from
    the floor ? This ?
    Most problems are simple. Most solutions are simple.
    The term "simple" may move for orders of magnitude though,
    depending on the problem. There are those putting a bunch
    of patents and trademarks onto a device consisting of three
    transistors to inflate childrens baloons. And there are others
    silently doing single electron measurements at 5 microkelvins,
    where the thermal budget is microwatts.
    From solving a problem in the lab to a product there may
    be a far longer way than anticipated. Some projects start
    to fail at the start by too quickly defining specifications
    without realizing the implications. Other projects fail
    because of personal overestimation of scientific staff.
    Naive ways to improve an already perfect design to claim
    ownership. Afterwards everyone has learnt something, but
    some knew before. But the money and the years are gone.

    I've seen things ...

  16. From a certain complexity up, sideview, bottomview and
    frontview are not sufficient to make a mechanical part.
    Same with electronics. From a certain complexity up, a
    schematic is not sufficient anymore.
    And not all approaches to a problem are equally fruitful.

  17. Guest


    The reality is that very often schematics itself is
    only a part of whole design and may be even not the
    essential/critical one. There're many other important
    "variables" in the design process. Any good product is
    a highly integrated system.

  18. Guy Macon

    Guy Macon Guest

    There is a very good reason why you have experienced this.
    The part of the project that you are asking for is roughly
    1% of the work that needs to be done. 90% is understanding
    the requirements.

    There are many participants here who will be glad to do what you
    ask on an hourly basis. A fresh-ot-of-school junior engineer
    should cost you at least $50 USD per hour and an experienced
    engineer will cost you at least $100 USD per hour. In a perfect
    world with you having vast experience in specifying it would take
    1-3 hours, but your lack of experience in specifying (as evidenced
    by your not already knowing that 90% of the work is in understanding
    and documenting the requirements) tells me that it will take 10 to
    100 hours, which is why you have bids in the 1k to 10k range - 10
    to 100 hours X $100 USD per hour = $1,000 USD to $10,000 USD. Those
    of us who have done this many times before *know* that you won't be
    happy with what you get from an hour or two of work from someone who
    doesn't understand your requirements.

    May I suggest a cheaper alternative? Do the best that you can do
    with your present skills, post the schematic in ASCII here, and
    ask questions using this web page as a guide:
    How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
    You have a free resource here. Read the page I just referenced and
    start using it wisely.

    BTW, I get a couple of calls a week from people who want me to do
    work for them but who cannot afford to pay me. If the idea seems
    promising to me I usually give them a half hour or so of free advice,
    just on the chance that they might someday be in a position to hire
    me (I wouldn't want to blow off a future Steve Jobs or Bill Gates...)
    I always end up suggesting that they get on Usenet (with the usual
    advice about and, come to and try the "cheaper alternative" I suggested
    above. So far none of them has done so, which puts you way ahead of
    any of them. If you feel like giving me a call I will give you the
    same courtesy for the same $0 price.
  19. Now that want money each month, I switched to $3.95 one time, up to 50Mb/day - which is heaps
    for text only (though teranews carry everything).
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