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security system advice

Discussion in 'Security Alarms' started by [email protected], Apr 3, 2008.

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  1. Guest

    Hi everyone,

    I have recently had a number of break-ins at a rental property I am
    trying to renovate. I have been doing a total rewire since the house
    was built in 1900 and still has a couple of exterior fuse panels on
    the back porch (it was a duplex I'm converting back into a single
    family house) A day after I had the house ready for rough wiring
    inspection thieves broke into the 6' crawlspace and cut and stole all
    of the wire running under the house. I secured the crawlspace a
    little better, had the house rewired and nearly ready for inspection
    again and the thieves returned, broke off the lock and cut the wire
    again...I'm fed up and need a security system (at least
    temporarily).

    I'm looking at the DSC 1832. I want to put a motion sensor under the
    house near the new wire breaker box where all of the wires come under
    the house with both a siren under and outside of the house. I also
    purchased a couple of pepper spray release traps that work off of the
    12VDC bell signal(one for under the house and one for in the house).
    I plan on placing another motion sensor in the house in the hall where
    the breaker panel is located because that is where the thieves will
    most likely go if they can't get in under the house. (I put a serious
    lock mechanism on the door to get under the house).

    Here are my questions/problems:

    1. To pass the rough wiring inspection, I will most likely have to
    remove the old fuse boxes from the house leaving the house without
    power for a few weeks until I can get the sheetrock completed and the
    final wiring inspected and passed. What are my options for powering
    the security system during this time? I thought about using a 12V car
    battery somehow but I'm not sure how to go about it at this point.
    Has anyone out there run into having to power your alarm system for an
    extended amount of time without power to the house?

    2. Will the DSC be able to drive 2 sirens and 2 pepper spray traps
    without some type of aux power supply? The pepper spray traps use
    just a few mA to power an audible countdown timer and then 800mA to
    power the solenoid for 30 seconds while the pepper spray is dispersed.
    The sirens will be standard interior and exterior sirens but I will
    attempt to get sirens with a lower amp draw.

    Does DSC sell an Aux power supply to fit into the control panel?

    3. This brings up another question. I will have 2 pepper spray traps
    but i don't want them both to go off. Can I control 2 seperate 12V
    bells based on what zones are triggered with the DSC?

    4. Based on the info above, will the DSC be the best choice or would
    a VISTA 20P or other system be better?

    Thanks in advance for any help you can give me. I have never
    installed a security system but i have done other electonic projects
    and I'm not usually firghtened by wiring diagrams and instructions.
     
  2. alarman

    alarman Guest

    Pepper spray traps? Really? Cool. You'll need an aux power supply all right.
    It's a PC5204, and it needs it's own 16.5 VAC/40VA transformer, and battery.
    Use a relay to cut the siren while the pepper spray trap is drawing it's 800
    mils. I think the 1832 has zone follower attributes on the pgm outputs,
    hmmm...seems I saw that. Donno.
     
  3. Crash Gordon

    Crash Gordon Guest

    Much easier to just spread about 20 pounds of carpet tacks in the
    crawlspace.



    --
    **Crash Gordon**







    |
    | | > wrote:
    | > > Hi everyone,
    | > >
    | > > I have recently had a number of break-ins at a rental property I am
    | > > trying to renovate. I have been doing a total rewire since the house
    | > > was built in 1900 and still has a couple of exterior fuse panels on
    | > > the back porch (it was a duplex I'm converting back into a single
    | > > family house) A day after I had the house ready for rough wiring
    | > > inspection thieves broke into the 6' crawlspace and cut and stole all
    | > > of the wire running under the house. I secured the crawlspace a
    | > > little better, had the house rewired and nearly ready for inspection
    | > > again and the thieves returned, broke off the lock and cut the wire
    | > > again...I'm fed up and need a security system (at least
    | > > temporarily).
    | > >
    | > > I'm looking at the DSC 1832. I want to put a motion sensor under the
    | > > house near the new wire breaker box where all of the wires come under
    | > > the house with both a siren under and outside of the house. I also
    | > > purchased a couple of pepper spray release traps that work off of the
    | > > 12VDC bell signal(one for under the house and one for in the house).
    | > > I plan on placing another motion sensor in the house in the hall where
    | > > the breaker panel is located because that is where the thieves will
    | > > most likely go if they can't get in under the house. (I put a serious
    | > > lock mechanism on the door to get under the house).
    | > >
    | > > Here are my questions/problems:
    | > >
    | > > 1. To pass the rough wiring inspection, I will most likely have to
    | > > remove the old fuse boxes from the house leaving the house without
    | > > power for a few weeks until I can get the sheetrock completed and the
    | > > final wiring inspected and passed. What are my options for powering
    | > > the security system during this time? I thought about using a 12V car
    | > > battery somehow but I'm not sure how to go about it at this point.
    | > > Has anyone out there run into having to power your alarm system for an
    | > > extended amount of time without power to the house?
    | > >
    | > > 2. Will the DSC be able to drive 2 sirens and 2 pepper spray traps
    | > > without some type of aux power supply? The pepper spray traps use
    | > > just a few mA to power an audible countdown timer and then 800mA to
    | > > power the solenoid for 30 seconds while the pepper spray is dispersed.
    | > > The sirens will be standard interior and exterior sirens but I will
    | > > attempt to get sirens with a lower amp draw.
    | > >
    | > > Does DSC sell an Aux power supply to fit into the control panel?
    | > >
    | > > 3. This brings up another question. I will have 2 pepper spray traps
    | > > but i don't want them both to go off. Can I control 2 seperate 12V
    | > > bells based on what zones are triggered with the DSC?
    | > >
    | > > 4. Based on the info above, will the DSC be the best choice or would
    | > > a VISTA 20P or other system be better?
    | > >
    | > > Thanks in advance for any help you can give me. I have never
    | > > installed a security system but i have done other electonic projects
    | > > and I'm not usually firghtened by wiring diagrams and instructions.
    | >
    | > Pepper spray traps? Really? Cool. You'll need an aux power supply all
    | right.
    | > It's a PC5204, and it needs it's own 16.5 VAC/40VA transformer, and
    | battery.
    | > Use a relay to cut the siren while the pepper spray trap is drawing it's
    | 800
    | > mils. I think the 1832 has zone follower attributes on the pgm outputs,
    | > hmmm...seems I saw that. Donno.
    | >
    | > --
    | > js
    |
    | Yup it does although it works by zone banks, so if he wants zone 8 to trip
    | the pgm zones 1 to 7 will too
    |
    |
     
  4. D

    D Guest

  5. Frank Olson

    Frank Olson Guest


    I'm thinking about that big Chrysler engined air raid siren... In a
    crawlspace... Ouch!!!
     
  6. Frank Olson

    Frank Olson Guest


    Yeah... I'd nix the siren and have the system report "silent". Hot
    foot it over there with a shotgun and rock salt ammo. You just gotta
    love the States... "right to bear arms", and "defend the homestead".
    "Go ahead, punk... Make my day!"
     
  7. alarman

    alarman Guest

    I'd hate to be the alarm guy on that job. <ouch!>
     
  8. alarman

    alarman Guest


    Sue him? Those dumbass builders musta spilt 'em. Donno how they got there.
     
  9. Crash Gordon

    Crash Gordon Guest

    I did that once in an air conditioning duct work from the roof...bastards
    never tried that way in again.

    --
    **Crash Gordon**







    | Crash Gordon wrote:
    | > Much easier to just spread about 20 pounds of carpet tacks in the
    | > crawlspace.
    |
    | I'd hate to be the alarm guy on that job. <ouch!>
    |
    | --
    | js
    |
    | He who laughs last.......thinks the slowest
    |
    |
     
  10. Jim

    Jim Guest

    I never heard of Pepper spay traps.

    Where did you get them? Got a product name or a website?
    I can think of a place to use one right now!
     
  11. alarman

    alarman Guest


    Oh, absolutely. I have several "practical" applications in mind.
    <snicker>
     
  12. Guest

    http://www.stopthecrime.com/products.htm
     
  13. Jim

    Jim Guest

    Actually, I do.

    With the value of copper and metal going up, there's been a lot of
    thievery of metal going on around here. Plumbing shop was relieved of
    over $70,000.00 in copper a few months ago on Long Island. I've got a
    General Contractor who stores his metal in a shanty type structure in
    back of his shop and it's been hit a few times in the last year or so.
    Not much in value but costly when he thinks he's got material and has
    to stop a job because it's not there. I was thinking that a quick way
    to get them out of there would be with some kind of pepper spray. With
    CCTV I think he'd just have the pleasure of watching some stranger
    take his stuff and he'd need lighting and etc, etc. And once he stops
    who evers doing this, he's left with a very expensive CCTV system that
    never gets used anymore.

    I see that a company by the name of Revel in Pittsburg has a multi
    canister device activated by 12 volts, but it's only for indoor use. I
    don't see anything for outdoor use. I can imagine they don't recommend
    it for outdoors because of the wind, freezing and other environmental
    reasons, but I'm going to call and see what they say. The area's small
    so maybe if the device is sealed or protected from the weather, it
    would do the job.
     
  14. Jim

    Jim Guest

  15. Nomen Nescio

    Nomen Nescio Guest

    With the value of copper and metal going up, there's been a lot of
    You might want to look into smoke generators. These were developed in the
    UK about ten or fifteen years ago as a way to thwart smash and grab
    burglaries. They fill up the area with a dense nontoxic smoke in a matter
    of seconds. If they can't see, they can't steal.

    Cross-zoning of initiating devices is recommended. :) Obviously, this
    system doesn't get along well with smoke detectors, and if the local fire
    department doesn't know about the system, they may conclude the building is
    on fire.

    smokecloak.com is one of the original companies; there are others.
     
  16. Jim

    Jim Guest

    Yes, I know about them but they're also for inside and if I remember
    right, they're quite costly. I just think something that gets them out
    of there once or twice will end it. I don't think the customer should
    pay a lot, for something like CCTV, etc, that's only going to be used
    a few times .... at the most. But it's going to be up to him. Depends
    on how much of an inconvenience and cost it is for him to lose the
    material.
     
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