Scooter Saga: Revisited; Batteries and Charger

[mea305]

I addressed this issue yesterday, but I lacked the appropriate
nomenclature for others to give me their input. My question was --
because I had some additional batteries installed onto my scooter (in a
parallel configuration, ensuring that the 12 VDC requirement was met
and not exceeded), I attempted to charge the unit yesterday. I did so
with the following unit:

==> Universal Power Group Charger, Model Number 24BC5000TF-1; Input:
100-240V AC, 50/60Hz 4.0A; Output: 24V DC, 5A MAX

A respondent informed me that either one of the two situations
developed: either I blew the rectifier or a fuse. However, upon
inspecting the unit, I do not see a fuse.

My "initial quesion" was whether I could use a standard type battery
charger; my father-in-law has one that is on wheels, is able to charge
just about anything from 6 to 12 V DC, and it has a dial on the front
indicating a various number of levels.

My battery nomenclature is as follows: "Universal Battery:"
Non-Spillable, lead-acid battery
Voltage Regulation: Standby Use: 13.6 - 13.8 V; Cyclic Use: 14.5-14.9 V
The manufacture number, or model number for this battery is UB121120

Would it be appropriate to use the standard "auto" charger? And, if
there is no external fuse on the aforementioned charger, would it be
contained inside the unit?

Thanks,

Mark

 

[chuck]

I addressed this issue yesterday, but I lacked the appropriate
nomenclature for others to give me their input. My question was --
because I had some additional batteries installed onto my scooter (in a
parallel configuration, ensuring that the 12 VDC requirement was met
and not exceeded), I attempted to charge the unit yesterday. I did so
with the following unit:

==> Universal Power Group Charger, Model Number 24BC5000TF-1; Input:
100-240V AC, 50/60Hz 4.0A; Output: 24V DC, 5A MAX

If this charger is indeed 24v, it should only be used with TWO 12 volt
batteries in series. I thought you were connecting two 6 volt batteries
to make 12 volts for a 12 volt motor.

I am also confused by the input current rating of 4.0 amps. At 120
volts, you would have 480 watts "going in" and 120 watts "going out",
meaning that the charger is dissipating the difference (360 watts). It
should get too hot to touch in a matter of minutes based on that.

A respondent informed me that either one of the two situations
developed: either I blew the rectifier or a fuse. However, upon
inspecting the unit, I do not see a fuse.

My "initial quesion" was whether I could use a standard type battery
charger; my father-in-law has one that is on wheels, is able to charge
just about anything from 6 to 12 V DC, and it has a dial on the front
indicating a various number of levels.

My battery nomenclature is as follows: "Universal Battery:"
Non-Spillable, lead-acid battery
Voltage Regulation: Standby Use: 13.6 - 13.8 V; Cyclic Use: 14.5-14.9 V
The manufacture number, or model number for this battery is UB121120

Would it be appropriate to use the standard "auto" charger? And, if
there is no external fuse on the aforementioned charger, would it be
contained inside the unit?

Certainly not if you have two 12 volt batteries connected in series to
provide 24 volts. To use the "auto" charger in that case, the batteries
would have to be disconnected from the scooter. You could connect any
number of 12 volt batteries in parallel (plus-to-plus, etc.) and charge
them simultaneously.

Mark, at first we had information that you are using two 6 volt
batteries to run a 12 volt motor, but now we learn that the batteries
are 12 volts each and the charger is 24 volts. I think that with
confusion of this magnitude, it would not help to provide further
suggestions here. It would be much better if you could find someone near
you who could look things over in person and give you a more informed
opinion.


Chuck

 

[mea305]

Perhaps I am the one who is confusing everyone here -- and I apologize.
Yes, I am using 6 batteries; they are connected as per the
configuration sent to me, in a parallel set. Each of the batteries is a
12 VDC; I was able to get the recharger through a 'contact' who was
nice to me -- it's a 24 volt DC recharger, and I have been using it for
the two battery configuration for some time. The only reason I decided
to ask the questions that led me to the 6 battery installation was to
help with the time factor with recharging.

Yesterday, I was 'thinking' to myself, and I came to the conclusion
that the 'system' remains a 12 VDC configuration, as the scooter
initally required two (2) of the batteries in a parallel configuration
to operate. Therefore, I merely hooked up the charger; but it didn't
work, and I heard a rather 'distinctive click' before it no longer
operated.

My question at this point was whether I could use a standard 'auto'
battery charger; my father-in-law has one, the kind the rolls on
wheels; it is a 12 VDC recharger, but it also can charge the 6 V
batteries (if needed) and it has a dial on the front that can be
adjusted according to the user's needs. Is it appropriate to use this
type of recharger on these type of batteries?

Actually, the situation is 'sort of mute' now, as my motor "fell off"
this morning. The welding that was used to connect the motor to the
chasis had corroded; so I am going to have to get that fixed.

The 'only' reason I wanted more 'time' with respect to charging is
because in order to retrieve the newspaper in the AM, I have to
navigate a rather long (well, about 1/4 mile) driveway that is on an
incline -- I am not sure of the %, but it's not much.

Does this clear it up, or did I make it worse?

 

[ehsjr]

I addressed this issue yesterday, but I lacked the appropriate
nomenclature for others to give me their input. My question was --
because I had some additional batteries installed onto my scooter (in a
parallel configuration, ensuring that the 12 VDC requirement was met
and not exceeded), I attempted to charge the unit yesterday. I did so
with the following unit:

==> Universal Power Group Charger, Model Number 24BC5000TF-1; Input:
100-240V AC, 50/60Hz 4.0A; Output: 24V DC, 5A MAX

That is the wrong charger for your setup. The charger
expects to "see" a 24 volt battery, but was connected
to a 12 volt setup. Consequently, too much current was
drawn, and something inside failed. You could possibly
repair the charger, but it is not suitable for you, unless
you reconfigure the batteries for charging and then
reconfigure for use, every time. Not practical.

A respondent informed me that either one of the two situations
developed: either I blew the rectifier or a fuse. However, upon
inspecting the unit, I do not see a fuse.

My "initial quesion" was whether I could use a standard type battery
charger; my father-in-law has one that is on wheels, is able to charge
just about anything from 6 to 12 V DC, and it has a dial on the front
indicating a various number of levels.

No. That kind of charger has no charging management circuit
for SLA's. You might "get away with it" using that charger,
but it could easily cook your batteries.

My battery nomenclature is as follows: "Universal Battery:"
Non-Spillable, lead-acid battery
Voltage Regulation: Standby Use: 13.6 - 13.8 V; Cyclic Use: 14.5-14.9 V
The manufacture number, or model number for this battery is UB121120

Would it be appropriate to use the standard "auto" charger?
No.

And, if
there is no external fuse on the aforementioned charger, would it be
contained inside the unit?

Perhaps.

What you need is a proper charger for your setup,
designed for SLA charging at the charge rate you
need and capable of supplying the charging current
required.

In your original post a while back, you gave these
specs for the battery charging requirements:
"Standby Use":
Voltage Regulation: 13.5 - 13.8V; Initial current: 1.8A

"Cyclic Use":
Voltage Rrgulation: 14.5 -14.9V; Initial Current: 3.6A

Since you now have two batteries in parallel, the current
requirements double to 3.6 and 7.2 amps, respectively.
The voltage requirements remain the same.

All of the above assumes that you are using the same
batteries that were mentioned in your initial post.

As Chuck mentioned in his reply, you will probably
need to find someone knowledgeable who can look
at your setup to verify what is needed. Sounds like
a great project for an electronics/amateur radio
club at the local high school or Boy Scouts or ?

Ed

 

[Rich Grise]

Perhaps I am the one who is confusing everyone here -- and I apologize.
Yes, I am using 6 batteries; they are connected as per the configuration
sent to me, in a parallel set. Each of the batteries is a 12 VDC; I was
able to get the recharger through a 'contact' who was nice to me -- it's a
24 volt DC recharger, and I have been using it for the two battery
configuration for some time. The only reason I decided to ask the
questions that led me to the 6 battery installation was to help with the
time factor with recharging.

Yesterday, I was 'thinking' to myself, and I came to the conclusion that
the 'system' remains a 12 VDC configuration, as the scooter initally
required two (2) of the batteries in a parallel configuration to operate.
Therefore, I merely hooked up the charger; but it didn't work, and I heard
a rather 'distinctive click' before it no longer operated.

It sounds like you popped the charger's protection circuit trying to
charge 12V batteries with a 24V charger. If all that happened was that you
heard a click, you might only need to reset the breaker; but you still
can't use it to charge 12V batteries - theoretically, you could charge two
12V batteries in series (for 24V), but unless the batteries are exactly
the same age, from the same manufacturer, the same production lot, and
have seen exactly the same usage and are in exactly the same state of
discharge, this can be risky.

My question at this point was whether I could use a standard 'auto'
battery charger; my father-in-law has one, the kind the rolls on wheels;
it is a 12 VDC recharger, but it also can charge the 6 V batteries (if
needed) and it has a dial on the front that can be adjusted according to
the user's needs. Is it appropriate to use this type of recharger on these
type of batteries?

As long as they're 12V batteries, then probably, but be sure to read the
instruction manual first. Depending on the amp-hour capacity of the
batteries, and the charger's algorithm, you could wind up trying to
overcharge them, which can hurt them.

But if the charger is "smart" enough (and you are ;-) ) then you could
probably do it.

Of course, read the manual.

....

Does this clear it up, or did I make it worse?

Pretty much, but I wish you'd learn to bottom-post.

Good Luck!
Rich