Maker Pro
Maker Pro

Salvaging Components---Where Do YOU Get Them?

C

Cydrome Leader

Jan 1, 1970
0
In rec.crafts.metalworking Rich Osman said:
There are a lot of place in the DFW area. One of the more, ummm,
notorious is Nortex. http://www.montagar.com/~patj/nortex.htm

The pictures don't do it justice. Spelunking rules apply. Bring a buddy
and watch for cave-ins.

Surplus Sales of Nebraska sort of looks like that, at least the floors I
was on.

There was also a business called The Radio TV Laboratory in Chicago that
seemed to have an infinite selection of older electronic components. They
actually stocked "new" parts for antique wire recorders. The aisles were
so narrow you had to sometimes back out of the store to let other
customers in.

The "main" surplus place in Chicago was American Science and
Surplus/Jerryco, but is really just a toy store (literally) at this point.
Up until maybe 10 years ago you could think of a project, walk in and
leave with all the parts.
 
C

Curt Welch

Jan 1, 1970
0
Well next weekend (not this one) is one at Berryville VA. This
is the one hamfest at which you can actually get a nice ham
dinner. :)

There is one in February which used to be in Vienna VA (my home
town),

There was? I've live in Vienna and had no clue there had been a hamfest
here! How long ago was it last here? I've lived here for about 11 years
now (lived down the road in Oakton before that).
but is now at a nearby community college. (This is sadly
decreased in size, thanks to the loss of a regular location.)

Which one?
 
T

Too_Many_Tools

Jan 1, 1970
0
In regards to hospital salvage, you may find this interesting....


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060730...4LvIzVa24cA;_ylu=X3oDMTA3MXN1bHE0BHNlYwN0bWE-

Recycling medical devices raises concerns By LINDA A. JOHNSON, AP
Business Writer



For eight months during his infancy, Sean Van Duyn gagged, retched and
vomited daily. Now 6, the Winter Haven, Fla., boy still can't eat or
drink by mouth, instead being fed by a permanent tube in his belly.

Beset by multiple medical problems in his first months, the boy had to
have a breathing tube inserted through a hole cut in his neck. The
gagging began and continued until his mother, Susan, discovered the
tube was misshaped at the end and had been poking the back of his
throat the whole time. The tube was replaced, but by then Sean's
developing brain was programmed not to swallow; he still cannot.

The family alleged the injury occurred because the plastic breathing
tube's tip had been bent during "reprocessing" - cleaning and heat
sterilization - done at an Orlando hospital even though the tube was
labeled for single use only. They won a confidential settlement from
the hospital.

The case has fueled the debate over the safety of reusing surgical
blades, forceps and other medical devices. The practice was routine
until a couple decades ago, when stronger plastics enabled
manufacturers to start making devices designed for single use to cut
costs and prevent infection spread in the era of AIDS.

Then hospitals, and eventually specialized companies, started
"reprocessing" single-use devices, cutting device costs by about half
- without patients' knowledge.

Federal regulators say reprocessing is safe, but original device
manufacturers say they can't guarantee recycled products will work
correctly - and that they are wrongly blamed for malfunctions and
patient harm caused by reprocessing.

A federal law taking effect Tuesday, requiring reprocessors to put
their company name on recycled devices as well as the packaging, could
help determine who's at fault when problems occur. For devices too
small to mark, detachable stickers could be transferred to the
patient's chart.

"That's like a 'Sue Me!' sticker," and may not be used much, said
Josephine Torrente, a lawyer and biomedical engineer who consults for
device manufacturers.

Dan Vukelich, executive director of the Association of Medical Device
Reprocessors, argues reprocessed products are totally safe because each
item is inspected before being shipped.

The device makers and their trade group have been lobbying legislators
in several states for bills that protect their interests - and
patients. The battle has a big - and fast-growing - financial stake
for both sides. Device makers saw combined revenues jump from $48
billion in 2001 to $71 billion last year; reprocessors went from a
combined $20 million in 2000 to $87 million in 2004.

Johnson & Johnson subsidiary Ethicon Endo-Surgery is suing the biggest
reprocessor, Ascent Healthcare Solutions, for trademark infringement
over reprocessing its single-use devices.

"It is impossible to reuse them," said Robert O'Holla, J&J's head of
regulatory affairs for medical devices, because they are not designed
to be taken apart for cleaning. Yet J&J gets complaints from customers
about problems with devices showing excessive wear or bleach on them
- signs of reprocessing.

Ascent Healthcare's regulatory chief, Don Selvey, said only about 2
percent of medical devices - a category that ranges from MRI machines
to reading glasses - are now reprocessed. He said his company's
processes reduce chances of "viable organisms" surviving on devices to
one in one million.

Reprocessed devices are soaked in sterilizing solutions, disassembled,
blasted clean with a fine powder, reassembled and inspected, then
packaged, sterilized and resealed. On average, they're reused three to
six times.

"It is as safe and effective as a new device if they meet our
requirements," said Larry Spears, compliance chief for medical devices
at the Food and Drug Administration.

Since early 2004, when reports of problems with medical devices were
first required to note if they had been reprocessed, the FDA has
received 13 reports of patient deaths and 421 other trouble reports,
including 130 involving serious patient harm, although some may be
duplicate reports.

Reprocessors say they must meet stringent FDA standards after first
proving they can safely clean and sterilize each type of device. But
the manufacturers main trade group, the Advanced Medical Technology
Association, notes about half of the reprocessors' applications for
reprocessing of individual devices were rejected by FDA, a sign of the
difficulty of properly cleaning complex devices.

Rep. Tom Davis, a Virginia Republican who chairs the House Government
Reform Committee, said Friday he plans a fall committee hearing to
examine the issue.

"It is unclear to us at this time whether FDA is able to accurately
track how often something goes wrong because a device meant to be used
once was instead reused," Davis wrote in a statement.

Congress also has asked its investigative arm, the Government
Accountability Office, to update a June 2000 report which concluded
more oversight is needed. GAO is unsure when it will begin
investigating.

Ken Hanover, CEO of the seven-hospital Health Alliance of Greater
Cincinnati, said his hospitals have used reprocessed devices for about
eight years without a problem.

"There's far more risk of medication errors in a hospital than of a
problem arising with a reprocessed device," he said, adding that his
hospitals "probably" would honor patient requests to have only new
devices used on them.

Children's National Medical Center in Washington, on the other hand,
doesn't use reprocessed devices, said surgeon in chief Dr. Kurt Newman.


"We want to use the safest and most sterile equipment," he said.

University of Pennsylvania bioethicist Arthur Caplan has "qualms" about
the practice, particularly because patients don't give informed consent
- required when deviating from the standard of care raises safety or
efficacy concerns.

"I just think people ought to know what's going on," Caplan said.

Susan Van Duyn, Sean's mother, agreed.

"If anybody can learn from the tragedies with Sean, it's worth telling"
his story, she said.

___

On the Net:

Advanced Medical Technology Association: http://www.advamed.org

Association of Medical Device Reprocessors: http://www.amdr.org
 
D

DoN. Nichols

Jan 1, 1970
0
According to Curt Welch said:
There was? I've live in Vienna and had no clue there had been a hamfest
here! How long ago was it last here? I've lived here for about 11 years
now (lived down the road in Oakton before that).

It used to be at the Community Center, with the tailgating
overflowing to the parking lot for behind fire department.

As for when it stopped being in the Vienna Community Center,
that was something like seven years ago, at a guess.

So -- you are local to me? I'm in Vienna, still. Do you know
about CAMS (Chesapeake Area Metalworking Society)? Alternate months
have meetings either in Maryland (Laurel, IIRC) or Virginia (not too far
from Annandale, again).
Which one?

The current location is at the Northern Virginia Community
College just off Rt 236, out a ways beyond Annandale. It is about the
third parking lot out from 236 sometime in February.

Sunday, Feb 25th 2007 is the next Vienna hamfest. (It is simply
called "Winterfest" and run by the Vienna Wireless Society.) See the
following URL.

http://www.viennawireless.org/winterfest.php

If you run into me at a hamfest, you will probably be able to
identify me by the following combination of features:

1) Large white beard.

2) Fairly bushy hair -- length varies with time since last hot
weather. :)

3) Digital SLR (currently a Nikon D70) hung around my neck and
shoulder.

4) Folding two-wheeled cart with a secondary pair of folding
stabilizing wheels, and a white canvas bag for smaller loot hung
from carabiner clips at the top of the handle.

Enjoy,
DoN
..
 
C

Curt Welch

Jan 1, 1970
0
It used to be at the Community Center, with the tailgating
overflowing to the parking lot for behind fire department.

As for when it stopped being in the Vienna Community Center,
that was something like seven years ago, at a guess.

I guess I just missed them....
So -- you are local to me? I'm in Vienna, still.

Yeah, I live here. I live next to Glydon Park on Ainstree Ct. I bumped
into the Vienna Wireless Society in the park a few years ago having some
sort of get together. I see they also meet at Vienna Elementary. I think
I've seen them there before when I was there from one of the kids school
events.
Do you know
about CAMS (Chesapeake Area Metalworking Society)? Alternate months
have meetings either in Maryland (Laurel, IIRC) or Virginia (not too far
from Annandale, again).

No, haven't heard of them. I'm not into metalworking (though I have some
interest in getting into it). I'm reading and posting to this thread from
the comp.robotics.misc group.
The current location is at the Northern Virginia Community
College just off Rt 236, out a ways beyond Annandale. It is about the
third parking lot out from 236 sometime in February.

Sunday, Feb 25th 2007 is the next Vienna hamfest. (It is simply
called "Winterfest" and run by the Vienna Wireless Society.) See the
following URL.

http://www.viennawireless.org/winterfest.php

Thanks for the info.
If you run into me at a hamfest, you will probably be able to
identify me by the following combination of features:

1) Large white beard.

2) Fairly bushy hair -- length varies with time since last hot
weather. :)

3) Digital SLR (currently a Nikon D70) hung around my neck and
shoulder.

4) Folding two-wheeled cart with a secondary pair of folding
stabilizing wheels, and a white canvas bag for smaller loot hung
from carabiner clips at the top of the handle.

Enjoy,
DoN

I'll keep my eye out for you!

I've had pictures on my web site but it's been down for a few months
because I've been too lazy to set it up again after a computer move. I
should get it back on line and update it.
 
D

DoN. Nichols

Jan 1, 1970
0
[ ... ]
I guess I just missed them....

Most people don't look in the town calendar for a hamfest in
February. :) (And, of course, it is no longer in the calendar, since
it is no loner in the community center.
Yeah, I live here. I live next to Glydon Park on Ainstree Ct.

O.K. That is not far away at all. I'm on Broadleaf Drive, just
off of Beulah. (Between Beulah and Glyndon.)

[ ... ]
No, haven't heard of them. I'm not into metalworking (though I have some
interest in getting into it). I'm reading and posting to this thread from
the comp.robotics.misc group.

O.K. There is a sub-group which is sort of between metalworking
and robotics -- the CNC sub-group. Robotics, but very specialized
robotics. :)

There is no membership fee -- just show up. You can find a link
to the CAMS website off of the dropbox site:

<http://www.metalworking.com/>

I tend to not remember the URL, because I get the notices on the
mailing list.

[ ... ]

[ ... ]
I'll keep my eye out for you!
O.K.

I've had pictures on my web site but it's been down for a few months
because I've been too lazy to set it up again after a computer move. I
should get it back on line and update it.

O.K. You can see a couple of photos of me with concertinas on
the web site in my .sig -- but those photos are several years old now,
and the hair has gotten more towards the gray/white than it was then.
Perhaps it is time to take some new ones. :)

Enjoy,
DoN.
 
T

Too_Many_Tools

Jan 1, 1970
0
I doubt it is the "Greenies" who cause senseless destruction of useful
items.

Logic would dictate that they would rather see them recycled or reused.

My experience indicates that it is usually the fact that the item was a
tax writeoff or a company fears liability, industrial spying or
employee theft so they would rather destroy than have someone else
benefit.

TMT
 
S

Spehro Pefhany

Jan 1, 1970
0
I doubt it is the "Greenies" who cause senseless destruction of useful
items.

Logic would dictate that they would rather see them recycled or reused.

My experience indicates that it is usually the fact that the item was a
tax writeoff or a company fears liability, industrial spying or
employee theft so they would rather destroy than have someone else
benefit.

TMT

Another reason is to avoid old, but still servicable, items from
affecting the market by displacing new items. We often took old
instruments such as temperature controls as 'trade ins' for new ones
and permanently disabled them before trashing them.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
 
I

Ignoramus21606

Jan 1, 1970
0
Another reason is to avoid old, but still servicable, items from
affecting the market by displacing new items. We often took old
instruments such as temperature controls as 'trade ins' for new ones
and permanently disabled them before trashing them.

Another reason that often happens is that no one in the chain of
command cares.

i
 
William said:
(posting from r.c.m.)

LOL. funny to see "P&D surplus" here. (international newsgroup, P&T is
local to me) yeah, they're still there. there's always controversy about
the name though, people always debating if it's "P&D" or "P&T". just looked
in the phone book, i guess he changed the name, "P&T Surplus 198 Abeel St.
Kingston NY (845) 338-6191" he's a good guy, gave me a break/discount
multiple times, i think he has his gearmotors at too high a price though.
:)

I'm pretty sure it *was* P&D, but my 1st trip there was in the '80s, so
I wouldn't be suprised if there was no P and no D in the name.

Dave
 
T

Too_Many_Tools

Jan 1, 1970
0
"Another reason is to avoid old, but still servicable, items from
affecting the market by displacing new items. We often took old
instruments such as temperature controls as 'trade ins' for new ones
and permanently disabled them before trashing them. "

"Another reason that often happens is that no one in the chain of
command cares. "

Ah yes...two more reasons that I had overlooked but have seen in action
firsthand....thanks for contributing them

It just occcurred to me that we haven't heard from Gunner. Gunner,
while I may disagree on political issues with you at times I do highly
respect your scrouging abilities...care to comment where you get your
pickings?

TMT
 
C

Christopher Tidy

Jan 1, 1970
0
Too_Many_Tools said:
I doubt it is the "Greenies" who cause senseless destruction of useful
items.

Logic would dictate that they would rather see them recycled or reused.

My experience indicates that it is usually the fact that the item was a
tax writeoff or a company fears liability, industrial spying or
employee theft so they would rather destroy than have someone else
benefit.

TMT

I'm inclined to agree with Frank here. A fair number of environmental
lobbyists lose sight of reality and become so extreme that businessmen
and politicians don't feel that they're the kind of people they can do
business with. They would help their cause if they weren't so extreme
and were, dare I suggest it, more willing to compromise sometimes.

Chris
 
T

Too_Many_Tools

Jan 1, 1970
0
I would agree that the "greenies" can over do it at times....but it is
a very real fact that the United States is a VERY wasteful
country...which means that there is a cultural tendency to toss
something instead of reusing or recycling it.

Consumer electronics is a very real example of it.

I also have seen what disregard for the environment can do to the
countryside and the people who live there...so I try to reduce, reuse
and recycle personally. I tend to be very successful in finding salvage
items to support my varied interests to where I rarely buy anything
new.

Could you give me some examples of how the "greenies" have added to the
reduction of recycling a product? Not trying to bait you...I am truly
interested in understanding the situation.

TMT
 
G

Gunner

Jan 1, 1970
0
Tell that to the insurance companies of all the ski resorts and housing
projects the Greenies have burned to the ground.
I'm inclined to agree with Frank here. A fair number of environmental
lobbyists lose sight of reality and become so extreme that businessmen
and politicians don't feel that they're the kind of people they can do
business with. They would help their cause if they weren't so extreme
and were, dare I suggest it, more willing to compromise sometimes.

Chris

"I think this is because of your belief in biological Marxism.
As a genetic communist you feel that noticing behavioural
patterns relating to race would cause a conflict with your belief
in biological Marxism." Big Pete, famous Usenet Racist
 
T

Too_Many_Tools

Jan 1, 1970
0
My comment was in relation to "how greenies cause the destruction of
surplus equipment that can be reused"....and you know it.

As for radicals, they can be found in any ideology...gun lovers seem to
be having a big push on running the body count lately in the United
States...does that make all gun lovers guilty?

Now getting back to the topic Gunner, how about some practical advice
on scrouging? ;<)

TMT
 
A

Andrew Schwartz

Jan 1, 1970
0
That's just up the road from me in Alexandria.

Andy
 
R

Rich Osman

Jan 1, 1970
0
Too_Many_Tools said:
Could you give me some examples of how the "greenies" have added to the
reduction of recycling a product? Not trying to bait you...I am truly
interested in understanding the situation.

TMT

Easy. ROHS (removal of hazardous substances) regulations are driving
manufacturers to grind up serviceable items to insure disposal in
accordance with regulations. Surplus resale is not even an option.

Based on completely unscientific observation I believe that most of the
destruction prior to this factor was driven my concerns about liability
and market impact.

In the case of liability concerns virtually all of the arguments I've
heard have been pretty far fetched. In one case I pointed out at a
former employer that the disposal program cost 10 X the projected
liability, and that the projected liability was clearly grossly
overstated. The risk adviser (attorney) pointed to the PR impact of
Ford's financial decision on Pinto gas tanks. In this case the product
was large color monitors and the worry was HV breakdown causing fires.
We had **never** seen this failure with the product in several million
units. Of course there is always the light aircraft industry example.
Until recently they were responsible for anything associated with even
75 year old products. Even worse, that 75 year old product was measured
against modern standards and knowledge.

I know of too many companies that grind up old product for fear that
they will compete with current stuff. I think most of this is at least
a misplaced or at worst wishfully arrogant. It's a rare application
that old product competes with new. It's also a rare company that has
such a dominant position in the industry, and has had it for so long
that any kind of destruction program can have any significant effect on
the market. I suspect the reality is that old product can meet a need
that new stuff would never be applied to. I also think that old stuff
can help establish applications that would not otherwise be
investigated, thus opening new markets.

Sigh.
 
C

Christopher Tidy

Jan 1, 1970
0
Too_Many_Tools said:
I would agree that the "greenies" can over do it at times....but it is
a very real fact that the United States is a VERY wasteful
country...which means that there is a cultural tendency to toss
something instead of reusing or recycling it.

Consumer electronics is a very real example of it.

I also have seen what disregard for the environment can do to the
countryside and the people who live there...so I try to reduce, reuse
and recycle personally. I tend to be very successful in finding salvage
items to support my varied interests to where I rarely buy anything
new.

Could you give me some examples of how the "greenies" have added to the
reduction of recycling a product? Not trying to bait you...I am truly
interested in understanding the situation.

TMT

I couldn't agree with you more. I'm not suggesting that "greenies"
actually reduce the extent to which products are recycled, or have any
kind of negative effect on how environmentally friendly we are. I'm just
suggesting that at times they are so extreme that people take little
notice of them, and so they have little positive effect. Sometimes they
just aren't very good at persuading people who don't share their point
of view.

Best wishes,

Chris
 
T

Too_Many_Tools

Jan 1, 1970
0
"Easy. ROHS (removal of hazardous substances) regulations are driving
manufacturers to grind up serviceable items to insure disposal in
accordance with regulations. Surplus resale is not even an option. "

No, the ROHS are forcing manufacturers to clean up after themselves and
to insure that proper disposal actually happens....I have been in too
many junkyards in the past for anyone to BS me about how reclaimation
is done without supervision.

Okay...so the business is destroying the entire item instead of taking
the effort to remove the hazardous material...and the grinding process
now makes the entire device hazardous. So the company take advantage of
cheap dumping costs instead of properly removing the hazardous material
like they should be required to do so the remainder of the device is
able to be recycled. So is this saying that the dumping costs should be
raised to make recycling economical?

How about designing the item properly up front so the hazardous stuff
is easy to recycle/contain? Oh yeah...that would mean spending more
money up front and not dumping the problem on the public
downstream....and we have got to protect that profit margin, don't we?

I have little patience for people and companies who want to dump their
pollution on the environment that I and my famlily live in and our
children will inherit.

TMT
 
M

Michael A. Terrell

Jan 1, 1970
0
Too_Many_Tools said:
When building somethng like a CNC machine, robot or automatic beer
dispenser, many of us reuse components from many different sources that
we find surplus....in dumpsters, junkyards, scraping older machines,
thift stores, etc.

So where have YOU found your reuseable mechanical and electronic
components and what were they from?

And most importantly of all, what have you built?

TMT


People call me and say, I have another truckload (or more) for you,
can you pick it up today? Three thrift stores, a local Catholic school,
the local County Government, and smaller loads from individuals call
every time the local paper mentions that I repair and recycle donated
computers to give to other disabled Veterans. I only have about 2000
square feet of storage, and I'm almost out of space. (again)

30*40 = 1200 SF Four bay garage
18*28 = 504 SF Storage building / machine shop
12*12 = 144 SF Outbuilding #1
12*12 = 144 SF Outbuilding #2
-----------------------------------------------
1992 SF Total


Then there is the work area of another 1000 SF. I need more room! :(


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
 
Top