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safe electronic brain stimulator

C

colin

Jan 1, 1970
0
phil said:
i recently saw this website about an electronic brain stimulator:
http://mv.lycaeum.org/EBS/

i wanted to check it was safe and read this article:

http://groups.google.com/[email protected]&rnum=1

my question is, can this device be made safe and still be effective?


thanks
phil

Depends on your definition of safe, you could ask the same question about a
lot of things, a tesla coil for instance, it all depnds how you use it, and
the inteligence of the user, also of course actualy knowing the risks is
esential wich in this case is probably largly unknown.

If its for recreational use then the answer is it probably can never be
considered 'safe'. If its for medical use then it depends on the amount of
research thats been done on it, and of course on the competence of the
operator, but more importantly it depends on weighing the risks with any
benefit, consider ECT for example, can work wonders on some people but leave
others worse off.

If you compare it to stimulant drugs, theres a world of diference between
medicinal use and recreational use, I am cursed with having to take these
medicinaly and the only problem they are for me is the attitude just about
everyone has towards it as a recreational drug. but when used recreationaly
it is far diferent as the dose is several orders of magnitude larger, ive
never experienced any sort of high while taking them medicinialy and im not
stupid enough to take anything like this recreationaly.

If something like this could replace those drugs i would be interested.
There has been some research into using electromagnets to focus the
stimuation on parts of the brain deep inside it.

Colin =^.^=
 
S

Steve Taylor

Jan 1, 1970
0
Fred said:
This circuit may be implicated in the several cases of people who
experienced instantaneous and permanent paralysis using it.

Bloody hell. Really ?

Steve
 
P

Paul Burridge

Jan 1, 1970
0
This circuit may be implicated in the several cases of people who
experienced instantaneous and permanent paralysis using it.
I'd foreseen that possibility. If I were to build one of these things
(which I'm not) I'd ensure it was powered up via some sort of reliable
timer which would switch it off after 10 minutes or whatever, just
incase I was paralysed and unable to do it myself!
 
M

Michael A. Covington

Jan 1, 1970
0
This circuit may be implicated in the several cases of people who
I'd foreseen that possibility. If I were to build one of these things
(which I'm not) I'd ensure it was powered up via some sort of reliable
timer which would switch it off after 10 minutes or whatever, just
incase I was paralysed and unable to do it myself!

You wouldn't mind if the paralysis were permanent?
 
R

Rich Grise

Jan 1, 1970
0
If its for recreational use then the answer is it probably can never be
considered 'safe'. If its for medical use then it depends on the amount of
research thats been done on it, and of course on the competence of the
operator, but more importantly it depends on weighing the risks with any
benefit, consider ECT for example, can work wonders on some people but
leave others worse off.

Yech- Shock therapy.

"We'll stop torturing you as soon as you stop being crazy."

Shudder!
Rich
 
P

Paul Burridge

Jan 1, 1970
0
You wouldn't mind if the paralysis were permanent?

That's why I'm not about to build one. :) I'm not sure about the
device under discussion here; it seems a bit primitive to be of any
real use. I'm still tempted by the sensing, amplifying and replaying
brain waves slightly out of phase, though. That really does give rise
to some very interesting experiences and no one's ever been paralysed
by it - yet, at any rate!
 
P

Product developer

Jan 1, 1970
0
i recently saw this website about an electronic brain stimulator:
http://mv.lycaeum.org/EBS/

i wanted to check it was safe and read this article:

http://groups.google.com/[email protected]&rnum=1

my question is, can this device be made safe and still be effective?


thanks
phil

The circuit is a very crude micro TENS device like that touted in Meg
Patterson's book on addiction. TENS and micro TENS devices are used
for a variety of ailments but brainwave "entrainment" is not of them.
You cannot cause a shift in dominant brainwave frequency through
introduction of pulsed current into the body period. The only benefit
of doing this is the increased production of seratonin and dopamine,
which can synthesize an anti-depressive effect. Some report that
overcoming addiction to some drugs can be accelerated by this
technology.

Biofeedback and visual or aural evoked potential can cause brainwave
entrainment as well as hemispheric dominance shifts but not electrical
impulses.

Although TENS is not known for causing paralysis it is used in the
treatment of paralysis. Introducing even low levels of pulsed current
into the cranium can be dangerous. Since this device is a square wave
generator it will produce harmonics that can cause other undesirable
effects in the body. Placing electrodes near the temples can also
cause interference with the optic nerves causing slight to moderate
eye muscle twitching.

If you feel so inclined to dabble with this circuit make sure you only
use battery power and do not use a non-UL544 mains-based power supply
or any attachment to third wire ground!
 
P

phil

Jan 1, 1970
0
the thing is, I have tried Bwgen (see www.bwgen.com) and it works
quite well, but i figured this would have much stronger effects, I am
now researching into an EMF generator, which would be less dangerous
as isn't a diirect current running through your brain, and I heard
scientists induced OOBE's on guinea pigs (not the actual animal btw,
lol) on a regular basis in a test on EMF's and thier effects.
 
D

Don Taylor

Jan 1, 1970
0
the thing is, I have tried Bwgen (see www.bwgen.com) and it works
quite well, but i figured this would have much stronger effects, I am
now researching into an EMF generator, which would be less dangerous
as isn't a diirect current running through your brain, and I heard
scientists induced OOBE's on guinea pigs (not the actual animal btw,
lol) on a regular basis in a test on EMF's and thier effects.

You might try magnetic stimulation rather than electrical, probably
safer and has been described as accomplishing some of the same
things. Throw me email if you want to get some pointers on that.
(address is valid)

I am a little curious how a scientist would determine that a guinea
pig was having an out of body experience (OOBE). A decade ago ours
would certainly get excited when they heard me coming home, because
they knew that meant a big serving of freshly cut grass would soon
appear but even that I couldn't conclude meant they were having an
OOBE :)

I'm less and less convinced that subjecting little critters to
experiments is justified. If someone really thinks they are onto
something then it seems like the most qualified and ethical test
subject is themselves. I've got this theory for the mechanism
responsible for tinnitus. I'd never consider subjecting anyone
else to the protocol but if someone qualified wants to discuss
drilling a couple of holes I'd really like to get some probes in
there to see if the evidence supports the theory. We'd get a paper
published out of this and I can show you that I understand that the
risks are negligible.
 
R

Rich Grise

Jan 1, 1970
0
You might try magnetic stimulation rather than electrical, probably
safer and has been described as accomplishing some of the same
things. Throw me email if you want to get some pointers on that.
(address is valid)

I am a little curious how a scientist would determine that a guinea
pig was having an out of body experience (OOBE). A decade ago ours
would certainly get excited when they heard me coming home, because
they knew that meant a big serving of freshly cut grass would soon
appear but even that I couldn't conclude meant they were having an
OOBE :)

I'm less and less convinced that subjecting little critters to
experiments is justified. If someone really thinks they are onto
something then it seems like the most qualified and ethical test
subject is themselves. I've got this theory for the mechanism
responsible for tinnitus. I'd never consider subjecting anyone
else to the protocol but if someone qualified wants to discuss
drilling a couple of holes I'd really like to get some probes in
there to see if the evidence supports the theory. We'd get a paper
published out of this and I can show you that I understand that the
risks are negligible.

I'd like to find somebody with tinnitus to try an experiment - next
time you hear it, listen to it. Pretend it's a communication from
some higher plane, and see if you can discern its message. See if
anything happens.

Thanks,
Rich
 
J

John Woodgate

Jan 1, 1970
0
I read in sci.electronics.design that Rich Grise <[email protected]>
wrote (in said:
Pretend it's a communication from some higher
plane, and see if you can discern its message. See if anything happens.

My ex-Royal Marine friend says that his tinnitus sounds like a WW2 land-
battle, and he should know. So maybe they have troubles like ours on
that 'higher plane'. (;-)
 
D

Don Taylor

Jan 1, 1970
0
I'd like to find somebody with tinnitus to try an experiment - next
time you hear it, listen to it. Pretend it's a communication from
some higher plane, and see if you can discern its message. See if
anything happens.

um... ok, relatively high pitched screaming noisy whistle. Not
so loud so I can still hear phones ring and understand normal
speech, unlike one or two that I know.

Some of the MD's in the tinnitus field listened to descriptions
of the sounds and had battery powered "screechers" that mimic
this built so that "ordinary folks" could hear this. The usual
person is pretty floored when when they flip the switch on and
are then told "imagine this all day long every day forever."
It shoots hell out of any attempt to concentrate on something.

If it is communication from some higher plane I can't make any
sense of it, it is pretty constant and doesn't seem to have any
recognizable variation or pattern in it. Some days it is less
obvious, some days more. But, like many who have variable
tinnitus, I've learned the sorts of sounds that really trigger
it for me, fan noise, road noise, engine noise, in my case.

nope, still the same high pitched constant screaming noisy whistle...
Thanks,
Rich

you're welcome
 
M

martin griffith

Jan 1, 1970
0
To safely stimulate my brain, I watch TV.
To safely stimulate my brain, I dont watch TV.




martin

Serious error.
All shortcuts have disappeared.
Screen. Mind. Both are blank.
 
P

Paul Burridge

Jan 1, 1970
0
nope, still the same high pitched constant screaming noisy whistle...

So what happens if you put Guns 'n' Roses on your stereo at full
blast? Does that drown out the tinitus or is it still there? Just
curious...
 
P

Paul Burridge

Jan 1, 1970
0
To safely stimulate my brain, I dont watch TV.

LOL!
Quite right, plus avoid tabloid 'newspapers' if at all possible.
 
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