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(Russian) 1978 Radio's audio signal path from cassette deck

73's de Edd

Aug 21, 2015
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Sir Richard9025 . . . . .


Check out the supplied referencing and note that the bottom section is being a schema clip of the radio band switching.

On that A3 board, the pressing of the yKB . . .Tape . . .has the RED connection opened between the 14 and 16 switching contacts. The wiring from them is routed over in the A2 wiring loom and ends up at the top schema clip at the A2 loom, to then break out and be the two RED lines that I have highlighted and RED blocked.

The very top path is a BLACK ground buss the RED one below it should have supply voltage on it as well as the other RED one below. The GREEN one is an RF signal buss.

The YELLOW circled R8 lead and the R18 resistors should provide contact / metering connections.


Now, how about having a no power condition and meter those two connections in low ohms mode and confirm if the TAPE-to Radio pushbutton activations doesn’t show a short . . . in radio mode . . . and open in tape position.


If so confirmed, a temporary wire jumper between those points should maintain power to the radio section while being switched into tape mode.


REFERENCE . . . SWITCHING:

A7z3pyH.png

http://i.imgur.com/A7z3pyH.png

73’s de Edd
 

Richard9025

May 24, 2016
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Ok , so I have a lot to say after I spent 3 hours translating user manuals , service manuals and russian forums :
So , let's start with the beginning :
When I first made this thread , you posted a image highliting the flow of the audio from the deck
Very good representation but I noticed a mistake :
vef - Copy.png

You thought that the M would represent a VU meter , but this radio doesn't have a VU meter
What is it ? I made this schematic of the current flow that passes thru that "M"
high quality variant of the picture : https://goo.gl/photos/wHnX2Lbw4vxBZfP89

motor path - Copy.jpg


So , as you may noticed , the M stands for `мотор` (MOTOR)
You can see what each of the symbols on the right do and why the motor is spinning (when pressed the play button) when the radio is on radio operation mode .
Also , you can see a green circle , inside it is the symbol for "recording" so you can easily assume that this is the record/play ganged switch .
Also , the biggest thing that you may have noticed are the two rectangles in the upper corner of the image
There is a pink one and a brown one :

The pink one is the TAPE/RADIO GANGED SWITCH (we are gonna get to that later this post).
The brown one is the AUTO FREQUENCY CONTROL / LIGHT ganged switch .

Now , let's go to the recent mistake :
You assumed that YKB means tape ... Lets see what radio bands can this radio cassette receive :

ДВ 2000—740,7 м (150—405 kHz) ------------ Long Wave

СВ1 571,4—303,0 м (525—990 kHz) ------------ Medium Wave 1

СВ2 300,0—186,9 м (990—1605 kHz) ------------ Medium Wave 2

КВ52 75,9—52,6 м (3,95—5,7 MHz) ------------ 52 meters (Short Wave 1)

КВ49 50,4—48,4 м (5,95—6,2 MHz) ------------ 49 meters (Short Wave 2)

КВ41 42,2—41,1 м (7,1—7,3 MHz) ------------ 41 meters (Short Wave 3)

КВ31 31,6—30,7 м (9,5—9,775 МHz) ------------ 31 meters (Short Wave 4)

КВ25 25,7—24,8 м (11,7—12,1 МHz) ------------ 25 meters (Short Wave 5)

УКВ 4,56—4,11 м (65,8—73,0 МHz) ------------ FREQUENCY MODULATION (FM mono)

You see that YKB = FM band .
And also see that it can receive some parts of some radioamateur HF bands , 40meter and 60meter bands (As you were/are a ham radio operator after the 73 you have in your name) , but it can't receive SSB , it needs to be modded with a beat frequency oscillator .
It uses an older FM band , from 65 to 73 mhz , it's called the OIRT band , few eastern europe countries still use it , it was decommisioned in 1990's , now we use the CCIR band , from 88Mhz to 108Mhz .
More info about it (from Wikipedia) :
OIRT bandplan
The OIRT FM broadcast band covers 65.8 to 74 MHz. It was used in the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics and most of the other Warsaw pact member countries of the International Radio and Television Organisation in Eastern Europe (OIRT), with the exception of East Germany, which always used the 87.5 to 100 (later 104) MHz broadcast band—in line with Western Europe.

The lower portion of the VHF band behaves a bit like shortwave radio in that it has a longer reach than the upper portion of the VHF band. It was ideally suited for reaching vast and remote areas that would otherwise lack FM radio reception. In a way, FM suited this band because the capture effect of FM could mitigate interference from skywaves.

Following the collapse of the communist governments in Eastern Europe, the 87.5 to 108 MHz band began to be adopted and is now in use in all those countries. This was prompted by the expansion of broadcasting and the modernisation of existing transmission networks, using new or second-hand transmitters from western countries,[citation needed] together with a general desire for standardization with the West.

Many countries have completely ceased broadcasting on the OIRT FM band, although use continues in others, mainly the former republics of the USSR. The future of broadcasting on the OIRT FM band is limited, due to the lack of new consumer receivers for this band outside of Russia.

Countries which still use the OIRT band are Russia (including Kaliningrad), Belarus,Moldova,Ukraine and Turkmenistan.

Hungary closed down its remaining broadcast transmitters in 2007, and for thirty days in July of that year, several Hungarian amateur radio operators received a temporary experimental permit to perform propagation and interference experiments in the 70–70.5 MHz band.

In Belarus, only government-run public radio stations are still active on OIRT. All stations on OIRT in Belarus are a mirror of normal FM broadcasts. The main purpose of those stations is compatibility with older equipment.

In 2014, Russia began replacing OIRT transmitter with normal FM transmitters. The main reason for the change to normal FM is to reach more listeners.

Unlike Western practice, OIRT FM frequencies are based on 10 kHz rather than 50, 100 or 200 kHz multiples. This may have been to reduce co-channel interference caused by Sporadic E propagation and other atmospheric effects, which occur more often at these frequencies. However, multipath distortion effects are less annoying than on the CCIR band.

Most stations on OIRT are broadcasting in mono although some stations are operating in stereo. Stereo is generally achieved by sending the stereo difference signal, using a process called polar modulation. Polar modulation uses a reduced subcarrier on 31.25 kHz with the audio on both side-bands. This gives the following signal structure: L + R --> 31.25 kHz reduced subcarrier L - R.

The 4-meter band (70–70.5 MHz) amateur radio allocation used in many European countries is entirely within the OIRT FM band. Operators on this band and the 6-meter band (50–54 MHz) use the presence of broadcast stations as an indication that there is an "opening" into Eastern Europe or Russia. This can be a mixed blessing because the 4 meter amateur allocation is only 0.5 MHz or less, and a single broadcast station causes considerable interference to a large part of the band.

The System D television channels R4 and R5 lie wholly or partly within the 87.5–108 MHz FM audio broadcast band. Countries which still use System D therefore have to consider the re-organisation of TV broadcasting in order to make full use of this band for audio broadcasting.


Now lets understand how this radio switches between these radio bands
Let's start with something that you in your life always encountered :


c6caebd385af0d11b5f96903b2d39121.jpg



A vintage Zenith black-and-white television , you might repaired dozens of them
What we need to inspect is how this tv switches its channels.
It uses a rotary band switcher to tune into the tv channels , as you know .
The soviets copied this design and used it on almost all of their radios from 60s to 90s

Let's see how the radio we are trying to repair switches its bands :


rotator.jpg
You need to rotate that button to switch the bands , just like in the vintage tv tuners
You can see the circuit boards for the tuner on the right corner of the whole schematic , the boards A3-1 A3-2 A3-3 A3-4 A3-5 A3-6 A3-7 A3-8 and A3-9 .
Each board has some pins or turrets or what you want to call them , that hit the other pins and form a connection when you switch the bands , these contacts are represented here (in a red rectangle) in this schematic :
vef260-1 - Copy.jpg


Ok , now you understand how this radio switches his bands and how its motor is controlled .
Now our part of interest :
The tape / radio switch
First lets see where is located :
new1328 (1).jpg

1 - Indicator for recording and the voltage of the batteries (red when batteries low)
2 - Indicator for power from AC line
3 - Tone control
4 - Volume control
5 - Cassette compartment
6 - TAPE/RADIO switch
7 - automatic frequency control switch in the FM range and the backlight scale
8 - fast foward
9 - play
10 - stop and release the cassette
11 - record
12 - rewind
13 - Radio strength bulb ( it lights up when it is tuned to a stong signal)
14 - band indicator
15 - telescopic antenna
16 - band switch
17 - microphone
18 - adjust frequecy button (change the frequency with it)
Now you also know how the radio looks from the front (on the back are just connectors)

The tape/radio ganged switch is highlighted better in the following schematic snippet :
vef260-1 - Copy (2).jpg

Now , because every post has a question
This switch commutes a lot of little switches that change the audio signal and a lot of things (yellow rectangles and red lines , I may have missed some things)

Can I get the tape stage and radio stage working at the same time ? If so , how ? (Now that you know almost everything about this radio)
 

73's de Edd

Aug 21, 2015
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Only have couple of silly milliseconds at this time . . . . .
But in your GREEN box / and /or PINK box assignments looks like the most likely candidates would be the
switch contacts of 1-2-3 and the separate 7-8-9 at the switch just below it.
With them being related to power switching functions.
The two top switch functions are just related to audio switching.
In monitoring power to the radio while being in the tape mode, I believe that they are dropping power to the radio sections. That should be aparrent if 2 is alternating power to pin 1 (No other circuitry connection) and 3. .
Meanwhile 8 alternates between 7 or 9. And with 2 and 8 then also being interconnected, seems like those two would be tied into the power source.
Fact . . . . . the TONE designation, that is adjunct to1-2-3 switch, is not specifically relevant to that switch section, function, but to the overall circuitry, further over to its right. There R5 is being the tone control while R10 to the far right is the volume / loudness control, with two tone compensation taps tied into it for aural tonal compensation at different volume levels.

See if the two switch sections mentioned . . .hold the answer to power routing to still be getting radio operation output while being in TAPE function.

73's de Edd
 
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Richard9025

May 24, 2016
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I followed the traces on the schematic :
8 switches from where the audio amplifier gets its power (red) , directly from the power supply 9 (dark green) or from the far left part of the schematic (yellow and light green) that goes to the motor and tape stage 7.
So , the 2-8 are interconnected . 2 (the same 8 earlier)(red) commutes between nothing 1 or the radio part 3 (orange) .
So when the button is relaxed , the power goes to the audio amp and the tape stage , and when it is pressed , it goes to the radio stage and the audio part . I think shorting the points 8 and 7 when it is on radio operation mode should do it.

But I think it is easier to just use another audio output to inject into the tape stages.
For example , the audio straight out from a 3,5mm jack connected to a phone :
main-qimg-62fa3146e6c85a95e53488a48388e99f.png

I connected ground to ground and left to the base of VT2 (input of the radio's audio amplifier) and got music from my phone on the speaker ! Can't just I do the same thing , but on tape mode ?
 

Richard9025

May 24, 2016
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I injected audio from my phone to the tape stages .
First , a snippet of the tape signal path :
tape audio.png
I made pink rectangles around the seres decoupling electrolitics that I changed with some spares
So , what I got from the audio injection from a phone (i put some music on the phone).

Order is the opposite of the arrows , from RIGHT to LEFT .


C6 - Very good audio , no problems there
C12 - Good audio , but with little noise floor , on loud volume it sounds very good but on low volume it leaves a little to be desired (still good audio , no problems)
C7 - Same as C12
C3 - ... TERRIBLE AUDIO , very high piched voices , no bass , very distorted , and weaker and poorer


So the problem is from C3 to C7
And there is ... you guessed it
Transistor 1 (VT1) , a КТ3107Ж PNP transistor ... (In english it is KT3107zh)
Now I'm searching for some equivalent on my local electronic part supplier
And a little question , with what can I replace the burned bulbs (all of 'em) ? some leds , but what values ?
Thanks Edd , You are the best !
 
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73's de Edd

Aug 21, 2015
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Sir Richard9025 . . . . .


How do the voltages check out on the VT1 C-B-E’s .

The resistors are carbon film so they should be quite stable, but check R5- R4-R9, also that
C4 electrolytic used as the emitter bypass to ground (Velly-velly important ).

That’s it, other than the VT1 transistor, and you should find a suitable PNP TEST unit in your JUNQUE BOXE of pulled parts.

Good to hear that DA1 /aka / 553 was passing signal OK . . . .I first used the original design of that chip as being a USA designed and made LM201 w- a- a- a- a- y back in 1966 or 67.

73’s de Edd
 
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Richard9025

May 24, 2016
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How do the voltages check out on the VT1 C-B-E’s .
base to collector 794mV
base to emmiter 800mV

R4 R5 are good (continuity check) and R9 too (it shows it doesnt have continuity because it has a high value 18kΩ) . Do you know a method to easily check resistors without desoldering them ?

C4 .... I can't find it on this board
There are 2 biiiiigggg capacitors , C24 and C36 , the rest are much smaller and with values from 1 to 500 μF
Maybe C24 is C4 or they used another capacitor that is way smaller , for example , C24 is 1000uF not 2000uF as it should be .
 

73's de Edd

Aug 21, 2015
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R8 is connected to the emitter of the transistor and then goes over to to connect into R13 and R20 .
That emitter bypass capacitor, will be tied into those three connections somewhere.

73's de Edd
 
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Richard9025

May 24, 2016
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Found C4 , it is a 200μF 10V electrolytic (maybe 2000uf is a mistake in the schematic )
 

Richard9025

May 24, 2016
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About the lights , with what leds can I replace them ?
There are 3 light bulbs that are broken and needs replacing
leds.jpg
Will these leds work ? (Change language to english top left corner of the site)
http://www.tme.eu/ro/details/l14-12_40/surse-de-lumina-miniaturale/brightmaster/
http://www.tme.eu/ro/details/l16-12_60/surse-de-lumina-miniaturale/brightmaster/
http://www.tme.eu/ro/details/lamp-dl870b/surse-de-lumina-iluminat/
but I think this will work :
http://www.tme.eu/ro/details/lamp-t1_9_40/surse-de-lumina-iluminat/
 
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Richard9025

May 24, 2016
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Bad news
I replaced a lot of caps with brand new ones
C15
C22
C23
C14
C35
and
C4
and
VT1 with a BC556A
and C3 C7 C12 and C6

And the results are the same
To get barely audible audio I need to get it to max volume , audible means that I can hear the sound , but it is still mocked up, very distorted and weak . To get good injected audio I need to inject a strong signal (high volume on my phone) , on low volume , it isn't good , and a bare cassette ...
What can distort so strong the audio ? It is between C3 and C7 ...
More exactly , between the base and the emitter of VT1 that is brand new
but , if I inject the signal into the base , it sounds poor , but not as poor as the cassetes

If I jump the audio directly to the base of VT2 (input of the preamp) via a 0.1ufd capacitor
from C3 - nothing
from base of VT1 - nothing
from C7 - nothing
from C12 - nothing
from C6 - very loud audio , somewhat distorted , can undertand most of what it says and also the backround music is hearable .
Suggestions ?
 
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73's de Edd

Aug 21, 2015
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Sir Richard9025 . . . . .

base to collector 794mV
base to emmiter 800mV


Those confirm good junctions on a PNP silicon transistor
Now what are the actual voltages readings on the transistor, with their readings
C 4,9VDC

B 5,7 VDC

E 6,2VDC

The all critical emitter bypass cap you have replaced.
Indeed 200ufd is more in the ballpark than that hefty 2K.

I’m curious about that base voltage, as it is basically set by that 390K resistor
and the emitter resistors value.

On your BC556 sub, you didn’t give it’s a-b-c suffix gain identifier.

On an “ a “ selection / version its gain could be as low as 75.

The Russkie KT3107kk unit could have a MUCH higher 180-480 gain spread.

Since your pilot lamps are either on AC operation or on demand on battery power, your very last one with it’s low current drain would be the best.

http://www.tme.eu/ro/details/lamp-t1_9_40/surse-de-lumina-iluminat/

The placing of a series dropping resistor from the 9 volt supply, to drop the voltage ~ 10% would noticeably extend lamps lifespans.

73’s de Edd
 
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Richard9025

May 24, 2016
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Ow , I see somthing strange about the voltage
I hooked the radio to a big 6V 4500mAh battery (I don't have a 9V battery at my disposal , I have one hidden somewhere)
The voltages across :

Base: 4.4V

Emitter: 5.1V

Collector: 1.0V


of VT1 (BC556A)

1 volt ? Kinda low , the battery is a 6volt one , but that shouldn't make the collector voltage 5 times smaller
I measured with a cassete inserted and playing it, volume on ~75%
Specs on the different transistors
KT3107Zh - http://alltransistors.com/transistor.php?transistor=52481
BC556A - http://alltransistors.com/transistor.php?transistor=23429
The gain , according to the datasheets , on the ruskie one was 180 and on the new one 125
Oh wait , my multimeter has a hfe transistor tester , testing then ruskie one : It shows 015 , maybe that is x150
 
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73's de Edd

Aug 21, 2015
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Sir Richard9025 . . . . .

Right-o . . . . that collector voltage swing is what determines the VT1’s outputted audio level and that is but a mere whisper with a 1V level available there..

Lift that 390 k and see if your emitter voltage doesn’t jump on up to full supply battery voltage.
PLUS you then need to commandeer some wire and two D size cells to place in series with that 6 volts to get a healthy 9 VDC level.

Then see what that voltage situation is..

73’s de Edd
 

Richard9025

May 24, 2016
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Found the hidden battery
With a steady 8.5V supply voltage from a kinda-new 9v battery

Collector - 1.4 V
Base - 5.5 V
Emitter - 6.1 V

Lift that 390 k and see if your emitter voltage doesn’t jump on up to full supply battery voltage.
Ok , I'll do that later and see what happens . ("that 390k" being R5)
 

73's de Edd

Aug 21, 2015
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Yeth. . . .that's being the base resistor . . . . .secondarily, confirm that there is being no different lead assignment of b-c-e versus c-b-e between the Russkie transistor and the one that you subbed in .
 

Richard9025

May 24, 2016
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Ok , I desoldered one lead of R5 and I got : (8,5V supply voltage from the same 9V battery)

Emitter : 6.4 V

Base : 5.7 V

Collector : 0,0 V

Even at 0 V collector current I can hear a ultra weak voice .

confirm that there is being no different lead assignment of b-c-e versus c-b-e between the Russkie transistor and the one that you subbed in
Now I was wondering why I got only 15 gain on the ruskie transistor instead of 100 or 200 or what it should be
The emitter and collector are opposite !
BUT : The new transistor is soldered properly , with its emittor going to З . collector to К and base to Б , the base . collector and emittor are marked on the circuit board .
The ruskie one and the new one have the exact case (or capsule) , but their emitter and base are opposite .
Now , with the commie transistor in the right place , I get a gain of 207
on my multimeter
WhatsApp Image 2017-06-14 at 4.18.16 PM.jpeg
 
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