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Running laptop next to a welder?

I

Ignoramus2833

Jan 1, 1970
0
I received my microcontroller (CUBLOC CuSB-22R) and got it to sort of
work, that is, it executes sample programs and prints things on LED
display and turns relays on and off.

At some point I will have to write and debug a program to control my
welder, with the CuSB inside the welder. I have a laptop that
presently runs linux, perhaps I can somehow install Windows on it too
so that I can run Cubloc Studio.

My question is this. Is it unsafe for a laptop to be located next to a
working welder, with HF possibly turned on, open panels, etc?

Would it be a good practice to download code to the controller,
disconnect laptop and take it away (to another room or some such)
before starting welding? Or is it unnecessary? Would it be OK to just
disconnect the serial cable so that there is no electrical connection
between laptop and the welder?

I have other alternatives too:

- connect and disconnect CUSB every time I need to upload a new
version, and run with it to a computer (a real hassle)

- buy a 100 ft (sic) serial extension cord and run it to a computer
inside the home.

Anyone has any idea what I am even talking about?

i
 
Ignoramus2833 said:
I received my microcontroller (CUBLOC CuSB-22R) and got it to sort of
work, that is, it executes sample programs and prints things on LED
display and turns relays on and off.

At some point I will have to write and debug a program to control my
welder, with the CuSB inside the welder. I have a laptop that
presently runs linux, perhaps I can somehow install Windows on it too
so that I can run Cubloc Studio.

My question is this. Is it unsafe for a laptop to be located next to a
working welder, with HF possibly turned on, open panels, etc?

Would it be a good practice to download code to the controller,
disconnect laptop and take it away (to another room or some such)
before starting welding? Or is it unnecessary? Would it be OK to just
disconnect the serial cable so that there is no electrical connection
between laptop and the welder?

I have other alternatives too:

- connect and disconnect CUSB every time I need to upload a new
version, and run with it to a computer (a real hassle)

- buy a 100 ft (sic) serial extension cord and run it to a computer
inside the home.

Anyone has any idea what I am even talking about?

i

A few years ago, I noticed that if I activated my 250,000-volt stun gun
near my computer, it would start to make a beeping noise. Pretty cool,
actually.

Food for thought. ;)

Michael
 
S

Stanislaw Flatto

Jan 1, 1970
0
Ignoramus2833 said:
I received my microcontroller (CUBLOC CuSB-22R) and got it to sort of
work, that is, it executes sample programs and prints things on LED
display and turns relays on and off.

At some point I will have to write and debug a program to control my
welder, with the CuSB inside the welder. I have a laptop that
presently runs linux, perhaps I can somehow install Windows on it too
so that I can run Cubloc Studio.

My question is this. Is it unsafe for a laptop to be located next to a
working welder, with HF possibly turned on, open panels, etc?

Would it be a good practice to download code to the controller,
disconnect laptop and take it away (to another room or some such)
before starting welding? Or is it unnecessary? Would it be OK to just
disconnect the serial cable so that there is no electrical connection
between laptop and the welder?

I have other alternatives too:

- connect and disconnect CUSB every time I need to upload a new
version, and run with it to a computer (a real hassle)

- buy a 100 ft (sic) serial extension cord and run it to a computer
inside the home.

Anyone has any idea what I am even talking about?

Yes, be prepared for any supprises, much depends on what kind of
interference your sparks amd magnetic fields produce and against what
levels is your laptop immune. Any wire hanging around can act as tuned
circuit and develope supprising signals with unknown results.
So just beware.

Have fun

Stanislaw
Slack user from Ulladulla.
 
Ignoramus2833 said:
I received my microcontroller (CUBLOC CuSB-22R) and got it to sort of
work, that is, it executes sample programs and prints things on LED
display and turns relays on and off.
At some point I will have to write and debug a program to control my
welder, with the CuSB inside the welder. I have a laptop that
presently runs linux, perhaps I can somehow install Windows on it too
so that I can run Cubloc Studio.
My question is this. Is it unsafe for a laptop to be located next to a
working welder, with HF possibly turned on, open panels, etc?

Make a toslink connection. It manages 12 Mbps with plastic fibres upto 10m.
Should help some.

Other than that. Strong current = magnetic fields, and magnetic fields are
way harder to insulate from. Mu-metall is expensive. I suspect the hardddisc
may be vurnable.
So you could use a machine with networked storage to overcome this.
 
I

Ignoramus27153

Jan 1, 1970
0
Make a toslink connection. It manages 12 Mbps with plastic fibres upto 10m.
Should help some.

Other than that. Strong current = magnetic fields, and magnetic fields are
way harder to insulate from. Mu-metall is expensive. I suspect the hardddisc
may be vurnable.
So you could use a machine with networked storage to overcome this.

What if I simply use a 100 ft serial cable to a computer in another
room. Would that be OK?

i
 
Other than that. Strong current = magnetic fields, and magnetic fields are
What if I simply use a 100 ft serial cable to a computer in another
room. Would that be OK?

Electricity follow the conductive path. You have to measure.
It can also act as an antenna I suspect. I think optical gap is preffered.
 
J

johnk55

Jan 1, 1970
0
Operating a welder close to a computer will subject the computer to very
strong "near field" effects. These effects are related to the fact that
the very intense electric and magnetic fields produced by a welder are
poorly coupled to the free space and are very highly divergent. The
intensity will fall off with distance at a much higher rate than the classic
1/distance rate of plane waves, will not efficiently couple to the space
around the welder and thus will not be of significant intensity at a
distance of only a few feet from the welder.

More than line isolation or filtering, distance from the welder is the key
parameter in terms of controlling interference from the welder.

Shielding from the locally intense electric and magnetic fields may be
helpful and it is doubtful that mu-metal is required as it will only be
effective at extremely low frequencies. The laptop will probably not be
affected by very low frequencies unless there is a local ground loop forcing
interface signal levels to extreme values.

Shielding will be cumbersome as the screen of the laptop must be visible.
Perhaps a transparent conductive material such as copper screen would work.

The welder may also draw such large amplitude current spikes that the local
line voltage may be suffering from low voltage ripple or high voltage surges
that could affect the power supply to the laptop. In this case a laptop has
a great advantage over a desktop computer in that the battery should take
out most of these effects.

Hope this helps

John E. Kuslich
http://www.crak.com
 
I

Ignoramus27153

Jan 1, 1970
0
Operating a welder close to a computer will subject the computer to very
strong "near field" effects. These effects are related to the fact that
the very intense electric and magnetic fields produced by a welder are
poorly coupled to the free space and are very highly divergent. The
intensity will fall off with distance at a much higher rate than the classic
1/distance rate of plane waves, will not efficiently couple to the space
around the welder and thus will not be of significant intensity at a
distance of only a few feet from the welder.

More than line isolation or filtering, distance from the welder is the key
parameter in terms of controlling interference from the welder.

Shielding from the locally intense electric and magnetic fields may be
helpful and it is doubtful that mu-metal is required as it will only be
effective at extremely low frequencies. The laptop will probably not be
affected by very low frequencies unless there is a local ground loop forcing
interface signal levels to extreme values.

Shielding will be cumbersome as the screen of the laptop must be visible.
Perhaps a transparent conductive material such as copper screen would work.

The welder may also draw such large amplitude current spikes that the local
line voltage may be suffering from low voltage ripple or high voltage surges
that could affect the power supply to the laptop. In this case a laptop has
a great advantage over a desktop computer in that the battery should take
out most of these effects.

Thanks. I think that I will simply keep laptop at least a few feet
away, and will disconnect serial cable prior to start of any tests.

i
 
R

Rich Grise

Jan 1, 1970
0
What if I simply use a 100 ft serial cable to a computer in another
room. Would that be OK?

Probably, but I'd still unplug it for when you're doing the high current
stuff.

Good Luck!
Rich
 
I

Ignoramus27153

Jan 1, 1970
0
Probably, but I'd still unplug it for when you're doing the high current
stuff.

The bummer is that my laptop does not have a serial port, as I discovered. :(

i
 
K

kidkv

Jan 1, 1970
0
Ignoramus27153 said:
The bummer is that my laptop does not have a serial port, as I discovered. :(

i
my dmm would not work right near the welder with hf starter on :)
my first dmm does not work from a high voltage spike it now just beeps
flyback got that one :-0
 
I

Ian Stirling

Jan 1, 1970
0
Ignoramus2833 said:
I received my microcontroller (CUBLOC CuSB-22R) and got it to sort of
work, that is, it executes sample programs and prints things on LED
display and turns relays on and off.

At some point I will have to write and debug a program to control my
welder, with the CuSB inside the welder. I have a laptop that
presently runs linux, perhaps I can somehow install Windows on it too
so that I can run Cubloc Studio.

My question is this. Is it unsafe for a laptop to be located next to a
working welder, with HF possibly turned on, open panels, etc?

Possibly.
In addition to what others have mentioned, DC magnetic fields can be
dangerous to the laptop.
This does not result from direct induction of voltages, but shifting
operating points due to the field causing failure.
I lost a laptop backlight inverter due to a fridge magnet on a shelf
nearby.
Pushed it a little close (not touching) and it stopped lighting.
The core of the backlight inverter transformer had saturated, or gotten
close to it, and blown a fuse, as I later found.
 
J

John - KD5YI

Jan 1, 1970
0
Ignoramus27153 said:
The bummer is that my laptop does not have a serial port, as I discovered. :(

i


Get a USB->Serial dongle.

j
 
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