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Rubber idler wheel rubber restoration

J

Jeff Liebermann

Jan 1, 1970
0
I've been volunteered to resurrect a Gerard A75 turntable and a Sony
250 reel to reel tape deck.

Both the turntable and tape recorder have rubber idler wheels that
have turned hard as a rock. Is it possible to soften the rubber with
some chemical?

In the 1960's I would just replace the rubber parts, so this was not
an issue. Now, I have to work with what's in front of me. Worse, I
have one shot to get it right and can't really risk a failed
experiment.

I've applied No-Slip goop to the outside of the idlers, which works
for a few hours and then starts to slip. That's not going to work.

I also have a bottle of foul smelling Methyl Prapasol Acetate, which I
use to clean and soften rubber parts in laser printers. It works well
for printers. However, my experience with the stuff on really old
rubber parts (over about 10-15 years) is that the rubber just
crumbles. I don't want to risk it.

Duz anyone have a better potion, elixer, process, or incantation for
softening rubber idler wheels?
 
S

Sjouke Burry

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jeff said:
I've been volunteered to resurrect a Gerard A75 turntable and a Sony
250 reel to reel tape deck.

Both the turntable and tape recorder have rubber idler wheels that
have turned hard as a rock. Is it possible to soften the rubber with
some chemical?

In the 1960's I would just replace the rubber parts, so this was not
an issue. Now, I have to work with what's in front of me. Worse, I
have one shot to get it right and can't really risk a failed
experiment.

I've applied No-Slip goop to the outside of the idlers, which works
for a few hours and then starts to slip. That's not going to work.

I also have a bottle of foul smelling Methyl Prapasol Acetate, which I
use to clean and soften rubber parts in laser printers. It works well
for printers. However, my experience with the stuff on really old
rubber parts (over about 10-15 years) is that the rubber just
crumbles. I don't want to risk it.

Duz anyone have a better potion, elixer, process, or incantation for
softening rubber idler wheels?
Take out the wheels, put new rubber on them, freeze them with
liquid nitrogen,or CO2 liquid spray, then machine the cold,
hard rubber to the proper dimensions.
You might have to re-cool occasionally.
I dont think you can apply some magic to the old,almost crumbling stuff.
 
N

N Cook

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jeff Liebermann said:
I've been volunteered to resurrect a Gerard A75 turntable and a Sony
250 reel to reel tape deck.

Both the turntable and tape recorder have rubber idler wheels that
have turned hard as a rock. Is it possible to soften the rubber with
some chemical?

In the 1960's I would just replace the rubber parts, so this was not
an issue. Now, I have to work with what's in front of me. Worse, I
have one shot to get it right and can't really risk a failed
experiment.

I've applied No-Slip goop to the outside of the idlers, which works
for a few hours and then starts to slip. That's not going to work.

I also have a bottle of foul smelling Methyl Prapasol Acetate, which I
use to clean and soften rubber parts in laser printers. It works well
for printers. However, my experience with the stuff on really old
rubber parts (over about 10-15 years) is that the rubber just
crumbles. I don't want to risk it.

Duz anyone have a better potion, elixer, process, or incantation for
softening rubber idler wheels?


--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558 [email protected]-cruz.ca.us
# http://802.11junk.com [email protected]
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS


A better description ,dimensions etc would help.
If they are the thin metal discs with rubber at the periphery of the rim
and returning over the disc, both sides, a few mm, then I have a fudge for
those.
Otherwise O rings are useful, don't usaually need to be flat , to work
 
R

radiosrfun

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jeff Liebermann said:
I've been volunteered to resurrect a Gerard A75 turntable and a Sony
250 reel to reel tape deck.

Both the turntable and tape recorder have rubber idler wheels that
have turned hard as a rock. Is it possible to soften the rubber with
some chemical?

In the 1960's I would just replace the rubber parts, so this was not
an issue. Now, I have to work with what's in front of me. Worse, I
have one shot to get it right and can't really risk a failed
experiment.

I've applied No-Slip goop to the outside of the idlers, which works
for a few hours and then starts to slip. That's not going to work.

I also have a bottle of foul smelling Methyl Prapasol Acetate, which I
use to clean and soften rubber parts in laser printers. It works well
for printers. However, my experience with the stuff on really old
rubber parts (over about 10-15 years) is that the rubber just
crumbles. I don't want to risk it.

Duz anyone have a better potion, elixer, process, or incantation for
softening rubber idler wheels?


--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558 [email protected]-cruz.ca.us
# http://802.11junk.com [email protected]
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

I'm not sure if anything here would help - but I believe - MCM Electronics
sells a kit of some sort. Check with them.
They do have a web site - maybe you can go there to look up the "keyword".
 
W

William Sommerwerck

Jan 1, 1970
0
Google "rubber rejuvenator". There are a lot of products.

I've used Fedron (from Federal Mining and Manufacturing) successfully.
 
S

Sam Goldwasser

Jan 1, 1970
0
William Sommerwerck said:
Google "rubber rejuvenator". There are a lot of products.

I've used Fedron (from Federal Mining and Manufacturing) successfully.

From the description, it doesn't sound like a rejuvenator will help.

Some photos would help to determine if an off-the-shelf rubber
tire, belt, or O-ring could be pressed into service here.

Also, isn't/wasn't there a place that would rebuild your rubber parts
on a custom basis?

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Sites: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header above is
ignored unless my full name AND either lasers or electronics is included in the
subject line. Or, you can contact me via the Feedback Form in the FAQs.
 
W

William Sommerwerck

Jan 1, 1970
0
From the description, it doesn't sound like a rejuvenator will help.

Fedron will restore "hard as a rock" (the OP's description) rubber. Whether
it's the appropriate product for this particular purpose is not clear.
 
M

Michael A. Terrell

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jeff said:
I've been volunteered to resurrect a Gerard A75 turntable and a Sony
250 reel to reel tape deck.

Both the turntable and tape recorder have rubber idler wheels that
have turned hard as a rock. Is it possible to soften the rubber with
some chemical?

In the 1960's I would just replace the rubber parts, so this was not
an issue. Now, I have to work with what's in front of me. Worse, I
have one shot to get it right and can't really risk a failed
experiment.

I've applied No-Slip goop to the outside of the idlers, which works
for a few hours and then starts to slip. That's not going to work.

I also have a bottle of foul smelling Methyl Prapasol Acetate, which I
use to clean and soften rubber parts in laser printers. It works well
for printers. However, my experience with the stuff on really old
rubber parts (over about 10-15 years) is that the rubber just
crumbles. I don't want to risk it.

Duz anyone have a better potion, elixer, process, or incantation for
softening rubber idler wheels?


Try Old rubber is a common problem, and
several people there rebuild rubber drives.

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.antiques.radio+phono?hl=en for google
group users.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
 
M

Michael A. Terrell

Jan 1, 1970
0
Sam said:
From the description, it doesn't sound like a rejuvenator will help.

Some photos would help to determine if an off-the-shelf rubber
tire, belt, or O-ring could be pressed into service here.

Also, isn't/wasn't there a place that would rebuild your rubber parts
on a custom basis?


Are you thinking of PRB? They are long gone. What little is left is
now part of Russell Industries. http://www.russellind.com

They have a downloadable cross reference for availaible parts at:
http://www.russellind.com/prbline/licensing_agreement.htm I haven't
installed it, but I will compare it to the old printed version I have on
hand.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
 
D

DJM

Jan 1, 1970
0
Try xyol (xylene) the paint thinner. I was told by a Xerox repairman they
used it on copier rollers when they got hard.

I have used it and works for me.

Dave
 
J

James Sweet

Jan 1, 1970
0
DJM said:
Try xyol (xylene) the paint thinner. I was told by a Xerox repairman they
used it on copier rollers when they got hard.

I have used it and works for me.

Zippo lighter fluid apparently works too, my friend soaks hardened rubber
parts in it. When they get really bad there's not much you can do other than
replace them though.
 
M

Mr. Land

Jan 1, 1970
0
I've been volunteered to resurrect a Gerard A75 turntable and a Sony
250 reel to reel tape deck.

Both the turntable and tape recorder have rubber idler wheels that
have turned hard as a rock. Is it possible to soften the rubber with
some chemical?

In the 1960's I would just replace the rubber parts, so this was not
an issue. Now, I have to work with what's in front of me. Worse, I
have one shot to get it right and can't really risk a failed
experiment.

I've applied No-Slip goop to the outside of the idlers, which works
for a few hours and then starts to slip. That's not going to work.

I also have a bottle of foul smelling Methyl Prapasol Acetate, which I
use to clean and soften rubber parts in laser printers. It works well
for printers. However, my experience with the stuff on really old
rubber parts (over about 10-15 years) is that the rubber just
crumbles. I don't want to risk it.

Duz anyone have a better potion, elixer, process, or incantation for
softening rubber idler wheels?

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558 [email protected]-cruz.ca.us
#http://802.11junk.com [email protected]
#http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

Are they "slippery" hard or "brittle" hard? Can you see any cracks
on the drive surfaces? If they are brittle hard w/ major cracking
(i.e. cracks that run into the rubber below the drive surfaces) I
would
be surprised if you could find any chemical that will help.

If they're not that bad, I've had good luck with GC Electronics
Rubber Rejuvenator.

For really, really hardened rubber I've had success with
Teac Rubber Cleaner (Part No. RC-2). This a potent,
oily liquid that smells like liquid moth balls. I found a
discussion thread that indicates it is no longer made,
but it looks like Rawn makes a close replacement:

"...
I've used the old TEAC rubber conditioner since about 1979 and I still
have about 1/2 oz left of an old 2 oz glass bottle. That's how far it
goes when used in moderation. That was my favorite for pinch rollers.
The bad news is TEAC doesn't sell it anymore. The good news is it was
made for TEAC by Rawn and they still sell the latest incarnation as
"Re-Grip" They changed the formula a couple times because someone in
California found some chemical in it to be carcinogenic. But none of
my tape decks have gotten cancer, so I guess the joke's on
California.

http://www.aedwis.com/rawn.html

...."

I still have a mostly-full 7 oz can of the Teac cleaner from 20 yrs.
ago. Guess I'll keep the cap on it...
 
J

Jeff Liebermann

Jan 1, 1970
0
Are they "slippery" hard or "brittle" hard?

Slippery hard. I spun both idlers while burnishing with fine emery
cloth to roughen the surface. That's helped, but without the
compression provided by the normally springy rubber, the turntable and
tape recorder both still slipped. Also, no flat spots.

The idler in the Gerrard turntable looks like the top row, 2nd from
right:
Can you see any cracks on the drive surfaces?

No cracks. It's not like they're ready to crumble or fall apart. The
rubber is intact, but hard as a rock. I didn't photograph the idlers
but can do so when I return to the scene of the crime, er... customer,
because there's no obvious damage. Just a hardening of the rubber.

Others have suggested machining it down and adding a layer of new
rubber from a belt or rubber sheet. I've done that in the past and it
works. It might work with the Sony idler, which is quite wide.
However, the Gerrard turntable idler is only about 2mm wide at the
point of contact, and will therefore be difficult to resurface.
If they are brittle hard w/ major cracking
(i.e. cracks that run into the rubber below the drive surfaces) I
would
be surprised if you could find any chemical that will help.

Well, I may be lucky here as there is no obvious cracking. However, I
suspect if I bend the rubber sufficiently, it will crack instead of
stretch.
If they're not that bad, I've had good luck with GC Electronics
Rubber Rejuvenator.

I've tried the stuff in the past. Like the other rubber cleaners,
rejuvenators, restorers, and recovery compounds, it softens only
surface of the rubber. My guess(tm) is about 0.3mm deep at most. The
rubber is not porous so the solvent only affects the surface. What
I'm looking for is something that has a sufficiently small molecular
diameter to penetrate deeper than just the surface.
For really, really hardened rubber I've had success with
Teac Rubber Cleaner (Part No. RC-2). This a potent,
oily liquid that smells like liquid moth balls. I found a
discussion thread that indicates it is no longer made,
but it looks like Rawn makes a close replacement:

Sounds interesting. I'll see if I can find some. Moth ball stench
would be a naphthalene. That can probably be found at the hardware
store.
"...
I've used the old TEAC rubber conditioner since about 1979 and I still
have about 1/2 oz left of an old 2 oz glass bottle. That's how far it
goes when used in moderation. That was my favorite for pinch rollers.
The bad news is TEAC doesn't sell it anymore. The good news is it was
made for TEAC by Rawn and they still sell the latest incarnation as
"Re-Grip" They changed the formula a couple times because someone in
California found some chemical in it to be carcinogenic. But none of
my tape decks have gotten cancer, so I guess the joke's on
California.

http://www.aedwis.com/rawn.html

..."

I still have a mostly-full 7 oz can of the Teac cleaner from 20 yrs.
ago. Guess I'll keep the cap on it...

I'll probably order some tomorrow.
<http://www.longselectronics.com/product.jsp?path=-1|12565&id=1194>
<http://www.mcminone.com/product.asp?product_id=20-230&catalog_name=MCMProducts>

I just found a box of ancient idlers and belts to practice on. I've
got about a week to tinker before attacking the antiques.
 
N

N Cook

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jeff Liebermann said:
Slippery hard. I spun both idlers while burnishing with fine emery
cloth to roughen the surface. That's helped, but without the
compression provided by the normally springy rubber, the turntable and
tape recorder both still slipped. Also, no flat spots.

The idler in the Gerrard turntable looks like the top row, 2nd from
right:


No cracks. It's not like they're ready to crumble or fall apart. The
rubber is intact, but hard as a rock. I didn't photograph the idlers
but can do so when I return to the scene of the crime, er... customer,
because there's no obvious damage. Just a hardening of the rubber.

Others have suggested machining it down and adding a layer of new
rubber from a belt or rubber sheet. I've done that in the past and it
works. It might work with the Sony idler, which is quite wide.
However, the Gerrard turntable idler is only about 2mm wide at the
point of contact, and will therefore be difficult to resurface.


Well, I may be lucky here as there is no obvious cracking. However, I
suspect if I bend the rubber sufficiently, it will crack instead of
stretch.


I've tried the stuff in the past. Like the other rubber cleaners,
rejuvenators, restorers, and recovery compounds, it softens only
surface of the rubber. My guess(tm) is about 0.3mm deep at most. The
rubber is not porous so the solvent only affects the surface. What
I'm looking for is something that has a sufficiently small molecular
diameter to penetrate deeper than just the surface.


Sounds interesting. I'll see if I can find some. Moth ball stench
would be a naphthalene. That can probably be found at the hardware
store.


I'll probably order some tomorrow.
<http://www.longselectronics.com/product.jsp?path=-1|12565&id=1194>
<http://www.mcminone.com/product.asp?product_id=20-230&catalog_name=MCMProdu
cts>

I just found a box of ancient idlers and belts to practice on. I've
got about a week to tinker before attacking the antiques.

--
Jeff Liebermann [email protected]
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

When you've failed with the gooey stuff.
This is what I've done for a Beogram idler.
I assume from the pics you directed to , that it is based on a thin metal
disc.
I cut a strip of moped inner tube, left the original ribber moulding in
place just in case my fudge did not work, seriously stretched the moped
rubber over the pulley rim and glued in place.
There was axial room to allow for the greater thickness and adjusted for the
change in "gear ratio" at the adjuster cone mechanism
 
S

Sam Goldwasser

Jan 1, 1970
0
Are you thinking of PRB? They are long gone. What little is left is
now part of Russell Industries. http://www.russellind.com

Yeah, that was probably it. I think someone else suggested another place
that has a similar service.

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Sites: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header above is
ignored unless my full name AND either lasers or electronics is included in the
subject line. Or, you can contact me via the Feedback Form in the FAQs.
 
M

Mike S.

Jan 1, 1970
0
Try xyol (xylene) the paint thinner. I was told by a Xerox repairman they
used it on copier rollers when they got hard.

I have used it and works for me.

Yep.

TEAC used to sell a rubber rejuvenator for cassette decks that was
essentially xylene. A suitable substitute can be bought in the US as a
paint/gunk remover called "goof off" in the yellow metal can.
 
J

John

Jan 1, 1970
0
I have had some success by boiling idlers and belts in water for a few
minuets
Costs nothing to drop an idler in a pan of water, give it a try.
Cheers John.
 
M

Michael A. Terrell

Jan 1, 1970
0
Ken said:
The "PRB Line" section at Russell Industries still does rebuilds.
Check out this:

http://www.russellind.com/client/download/rebuild.pdf

That looks like a page out of their mid '70s paper catalog. How did
you find it? Most of the links of the Russell website are dead, and
most good pages are dated 2002.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
 
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