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rocker switch

Discussion in 'Electronic Repair' started by Choreboy, Feb 22, 2005.

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  1. Choreboy

    Choreboy Guest

    The switch on my Kenmore vac failed. It appears that a replacement from
    Sears would cost more than $20.

    A replacement switch must have the right dimensions for the body and
    terminals. Is there now an online retailer with a wide selection of
    fully described electrical switches?

    Choreboy
     
  2. Kim  Sleep

    Kim Sleep Guest

    Honestly...by the time you dig through a dozen websites, pay single unit
    pricing, pay for shipping, handling, and insurance, $20.oo really isn't out
    of line.
    As well, Kenmore items usually use custom components for switches, so I
    doubt that you will find a replacement.
    Kim
     
  3. Choreboy

    Choreboy Guest

    That would make sense if I were being paid to fix it for a customer.
    It's my backup vacuum. I don't want to put a lot of money into it and I
    can afford to check websites at my convenience.

    A few years ago the computer board for my HVAC failed. It would have
    cost $200 to $300 to have it replaced. I found an online supplier with
    a good inventory of well-described parts and did it for $20, including
    spares. They have turned away from retail customers.

    Before that I used a paper catalog with a good inventory of
    well-described parts. They dropped their retail service.

    If I found a good online retailer, the switch and shipping might be
    under $10 and it could be as quick as ordering from Sears. I might end
    up spending more than $20 for my order, but that would be because I'd
    spotted other goodies.
     
  4. Ross Herbert

    Ross Herbert Guest

    It would appear that you are quite handy and able to repair items
    yourself. Along with this attribute it would be advantageous if you
    developed your skills at component researching as most others who are
    engaged in electronics development/repair have done. While paper
    catalogues are nice to have they are costly to produce and need
    constant updating. You have the perfect alternative right in front of
    you in order to help you to find a suitable switch. I am sure that any
    number of suppliers such as Allied, Mouser, Digikey etc will have
    something suitable, AND, they all have easily searchable on-line
    catalogues, often with pictures. Even if no picture is supplied they
    may give the manufacturers name and you can then go to the
    manufacturers website and get further info from there.

    Google is your friend....
     
  5. Choreboy

    Choreboy Guest

    I've been researching electronic components for 33 years. During that
    time others have often recommended distributors. You're the first to
    tell me, "That's for us to know and you to find out."
    Can you tell me why vendors of electronics parts send me paper catalogs
    because I ordered online? Anyway, I'm talking about a time before there
    was a www.
    It's not a perfect alternative. Shopping on the web can take much
    longer than from a paper catalog. When you seek a precise description
    or try to order you may find that a vital function doesn't work with
    your browser.
    Kim said digging through a dozen websites would take a lot of time. I
    agree. That's why recommendations are valuable.

    It seems to me that executives at parts distributors sometimes decide
    they want only customers who buy in lots of a thousand or more. They
    put up obstacles to discourage small customers. Allied did that 25
    years ago.

    Until ten years ago, Digikey was my favorite source. Then the cost of
    small orders became unreasonable. I think they were starting to get a
    lot of small orders over the web, and they decided it was a nuisance.

    For awhile I had a good time with Carlton Bates. If I needed something
    as small as a few diodes, they'd drop them into an envelope and charge
    me only a small handling fee. A problem with online ordering is that
    there may be no promise about shipping. They shocked me by putting 30
    cents' worth of diodes into an insured box that shipped for ten dollars.
    I got no assurance that they wouldn't do it again. It appeared that
    they did not want my business.
    Google has never done very well showing me the names of distributors who
    encourage small customers.
     
  6. NSM

    NSM Guest

    Try other parts jobbers, but the pain of trying generic parts isn't worth
    the savings IMO.

    N
     
  7. Ross Herbert

    Ross Herbert Guest

    Yep same here,... since 1960 in fact. The problem with your rocker
    switch (it would seem) is that it is most likely a manufacturer
    specific part and you are not likely to be able to find the exact
    equivalent on the shelf.

    Since this switch is probably OEM then in order for us to help a photo
    posted to alt.binaries.schematics.electronics might be of assistance
    so that we know what we are looking for.
    In Australia we usually only get paper catalogues upon individual
    request, and then only if we have an account with that company.
    Catalogues from RS Components and Farnell are typiclly more than
    1-1/2" thick and have around 2000 pages of small print and pictures.
    They are very costly to produce and distribute and it is natural that
    the companies would want to generate sufficient business as a result
    in order to cover the cost of these. In the USA companies have economy
    of scale so it is probably far easier to obtain similar catalogues.
    In the strictest sense, no system is perfect, not even paper
    catalogues. I have rarely not been able to find information via the
    www on items I have been looking for, but it sometimes takes longer
    than anticipated.
    Yes, but with OEM items (as your rocker switch seems to be) it is
    almost impossible for others to provide recommendations unless we know
    full specifications of what you are looking for, as well as a picture.
    I believe Allied is now part of the RS Components group and they
    specifically pride themselves on small quantity sales. Admittedly the
    price may be higher but if you only want one or two instead of
    hundreds then the cost is worth it. I have an account with RS and
    their service even for one-off is very good. If they don't have it
    locally it will be sent overnight from another state. If it isn't in
    Australia it will be obtained from UK within a week. Whenever I have
    tried to use Mouser or Digikey they want exorbitant freight rates even
    for small items weighing less than 100gms packed. I might buy US$50
    worth of components and they want US$50 to send them out. It is simply
    not economical. They simply won't use USPS because they have
    contracts with the big freight companies such as Fedex etc. I
    generally have far better luck and lower freight costs when dealing
    with UK suppliers.
    Yep, my experience also.

    That's where the experience comes in. After a while you get to know
    the companies who will. All it usually takes is an email to find out.

    Ross H
     
  8. Choreboy

    Choreboy Guest

    I didn't expect so much assistance. I posted the picture right away. I
    noticed it's marked Eaton 9221.
    It doesn't have to be a rocker. A DPST good for 6 A at 125 V should
    work fine. If the terminals are the wrong size I can solder. The base
    plate needs to be about 12.8 x 27.4 mm.
    Back around 1980, a mail-order customer would send a check. The vendor
    would give the check time to clear, then mail the merchandise. As I
    recall, at the time, Allied required a customer to set up a corporate
    account. I saw no reason for it except to exclude small customers.
    Because you mentioned Digikey in your last message, I checked. They
    charge shipping plus $5 handling for orders under $25. That's what they
    were doing 15 years ago. As I recall, their terms were less reasonable
    at some point in the mean time, which is why I quit ordering.

    If shipping a small order in the US costs $6, a small customer can
    choose goods priced at $25 and pay only 24% extra, or $31. But is it
    fair that he would pay more ($35) for a smaller order ($24)?

    With web orders, I suppose the paperwork for an order doesn't cost much
    because the customer types the input. Suppose in the morning somebody
    has ordered three battery packs totaling $30 to repair three cordless
    drills. The stockboy carts the basket with the list around the shelves,
    drops in the three items, and sends the basket to shipping, which bills
    another $6. The company doesn't bill for handling.

    Suppose in the afternoon the same three items are ordered, but this time
    it's three customers each repairing one drill. The stock boy puts three
    baskets on his cart and drops in the same three items. This time the
    company bills $15 for handling in addition to the $6 each for shipping.

    That sounds discriminatory. Looking at how many orders are slightly
    more than $25 and how few are less, an executive might conclude that
    this policy increases sales. That's not the whole story.

    Suppose the busy customer finds he needs an $11 item to get something
    working. With $6 shipping and $5 handling he'll pay double unless he
    orders more. He has a dilemma: pay double or stop what he's doing to
    think of, find, and order $14 worth of other stuff. It makes ordering
    less convenient. Over the years he's likely to accumulate items he
    ordered in a hurry and found he couldn't use. This could discourage customers.
    You led me to a breakthrough. Googling Digikey turned up Ralph
    Stirling, an engineering professor with a list of electronics
    distributors. I suppose he has found them reasonbable for the small customer.

    Choreboy
     
  9. Ross Herbert

    Ross Herbert Guest

    I just checked a.b.s.e and there is a post re the Eaton 9221. Thanks.

    It looks like a pcb mount DPDT switch with long pins. The terminal
    pins on one side of each pole have been cut off so it acts as a DPST
    with no centre position. It seems to me that the oem specified
    mounting plate has been added to suit the Kenmore vac. You won't find
    one with the special mounting plate and this element seems to be the
    critical component. However, you may find one you can modify.

    The best you will probably find is something like this NKK M series
    rocker http://www.nkkswitches.com/pdf/MrockersFlatFrame.pdf

    I doubt that you will find any off-the-shelf switch these days with
    long pcb pins so you will have to extend the 0.25" long pins/lugs
    yourself. That should not be a problem though.

    I reckon you might be able to use a M2022-TY-W-01-J-A (refer to tech
    data). The mounting plate on the TY is 12.8 x 41.3 so you should be
    able to trim it to suit. I specified the solder lug terminals so you
    can easily add wires to lengthen them or you might specify the pcb
    pins. The unused outer pins/lugs can be left alone or cut off to suit.

    Now the only problem is where to get it. First port of call would be
    to try the NKK distributors and reps
    http://www.nkkswitches.com/NKKReps.asp

    Hope this helps.

    Ross H
     
  10. Choreboy

    Choreboy Guest


    Thank you!

    M2022-TY-W-01-J-A looks like a good choice.

    I could even get something functionally the same as a 9221, M2024. I
    forgot to say the old switch says ON ON ON. I didn't know what to make
    of it. It means SP3T.

    I wouldn't have guessed it because what I need is a variation of DPST.
    Well, what NKK calls SP3T is really a variation of DPDT, with a center
    position where the poles are thrown opposite ways. If I clip two
    terminals I'll have what I'm after.

    Now I have three choices: buy an NKK M202x, install a generic switch on
    the vacuum cleaner case, or follow sensible advice and get the OEM
    switch from Sears. I'll see how hard it is to get an NKK.

    I don't know if Sears went out of its way to use a hard-to-match switch,
    but it reminds me of Henry Ford. He's known for developing a car that
    was cheap to produce, but his first concern was making it cheap and easy
    to repair. Before the Model T, drivers depended on OEM parts and
    factory trained mechanics. If you didn't have plenty of money and stay
    within towing range of a major dealer, you were better off with a horse.

    Cboreboy
     
  11. Ross Herbert

    Ross Herbert Guest

    Did your switch have a wire link between 3 - 5? The photo doesnt seem
    to indicate there is a link. If there is no link, and considering that
    two of the pins (either 1,4 or 3,6) have been cut off, then the switch
    doesn't appear to require the 3 positions. Did you check continuity to
    see if the switch conforms to the connections for the M2024 in each
    position?
     
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