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RF Helps Dissociate H2 in Sea Water?

Discussion in 'Electronic Design' started by EdV, Sep 11, 2007.

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  1. EdV

    EdV Guest

  2. It sure won't. But even if it got anywhere near to the energy it uses
    it might be useful.


    Best regards,
    Spehro Pefhany
     
  3. Sea water? Could be the industrial wastes found in sewage that's
    doing the burning. This was in Erie, Pennsylvania? Where did he find
    the sea water, or was it Lake Erie water? Didn't Lake Erie once catch
    fire? I'm suspicious.

    Duz anyone know what RF frequency and power levels were used? I wanna
    try it.
     
  4. Tim Williams

    Tim Williams Guest

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuyahoga_River

    Ohio. Twice even ;-)

    Tim
     
  5. This sounds like a crock. If they are dissociating hydrogen from
    oxygen, and burning the hydrogen in the resulting oxygen, the energy
    in and out is the same. If the reaction involves water and the bit of
    salt there, it could produce HCl and NaOH, but at a net energy cost.
    The most that could be happening is that they are vaporizing and
    ionizing the materials in there, making a rather expensive resistor
    load for the RF.
     
  6. Tim Wescott

    Tim Wescott Guest

    Ooh. Perpetual motion using the mysterious RF!!

    Someone forgot to do a power budget on the thing. Unless God is in a
    really puckish mood and has decided to finally violate the laws of
    thermodynamics you'll get less energy from the burning hydrogen than you
    put in via the RF -- much less the energy you burn in the RF generator.

    Don't they teach these science reporters any science?

    --

    Tim Wescott
    Wescott Design Services
    http://www.wescottdesign.com

    Do you need to implement control loops in software?
    "Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" gives you just what it says.
    See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html
     
  7. John Larkin

    John Larkin Guest

  8. James Arthur

    James Arthur Guest

    Right--cancer cures need magnets.

    Grins,
    James Arthur
     
  9. Gareth

    Gareth Guest

    Maybe I 'm missing something, but it seems this guy passed an electric
    current though salt water and produced H2. He used RF rather than the
    more usual DC but I can't see how this is any different from the
    electrolysis experiments I did at school.


    --
     
  10. Gareth

    Gareth Guest

    I can't see how it will be any better than electrolysis using DC. In
    fact I think it will be a lot worse - at least with DC you can separate
    the hydrogen and oxygen.

    --
     
  11. Jim Yanik

    Jim Yanik Guest

    a badly polluted river in Cleveland once caught fire,IIRC.
    Cleveland once was known as the "mistake on the lake".


    Lake Erie never caught fire.
     
  12. Guest

  13. James Arthur

    James Arthur Guest

  14. Yes, I know. Just practicing some FUD and promoting suscpicion and
    paranoia.

    TV video clip at:
    <>
    Looks like John Kanzius lives on Sanibel Island, Florida, where salt
    water is commonly available. So much for the burning lake theory.

    I've always been suspicious of pronoucements that are lacking in
    numbers. In this case, the frequency and power level of the RF are
    conspicuously absent. The RF generator or amplifier appears in the
    above video, but I can't identify the manufacturer. I also could not
    see an antenna or radiator. However, there was a frame showing the
    meter on the front panel, which indicates 1400 watts full scale. It's
    going to take a might big flame to generate that much input power. So
    much for perpetual motion. I wonder if anyone is checking for
    exessive RF exposure.

    Ah, this video has a somewhat better photo of the amplifier.
    <>
    Kanzius mumbles that it's a 13.56MHz transmitter.
     
  15. Sure takes a lot of energy to excite a fluorescent tube. There's actually a transmitter in Alaska that you can stand beneath
    and will excite a fluro tube. I think its a 250kw transmitter.

    Cheers
     
  16. MooseFET

    MooseFET Guest

    Not so obviously about the cancer cure. He is suggesting small bits
    of metal be stuck to the cancer cells (the tricky bit) and then RF to
    heat the cells with the metal bits. If the fist step can be done,
    they may be something to it. Some cancer cells can be chemically
    recognized by their surfaces.
     
  17. Gold nanoparticles will bind to EFGR receptors found in great quanity
    on the surface of cancer cells. Normal cells also have them, but in
    much smaller quantities. The method is being currently being tested
    as a method of cancer detection. If Kanzius is successful, it may
    also turn into a method of treatment.

    <http://www.gatech.edu/news-room/release.php?id=561>
    <http://www.news-medical.net/?id=28253>

    The gold nanoparticles can also be used to deliver drugs and DNA
    treatment to the cancer cells, while avoiding normal cells.

    <http://www.nsf.gov/news/news_summ.jsp?cntn_id=106998>
     
  18. John Larkin

    John Larkin Guest

    But how would microwaves desalinate water? You'd blast a tank of water
    with RF, and the salt would go... where?

    And very high power microwave systems have used waveguide water loads,
    and water calorimeter-type power meters, for 60 years or more. I don't
    recall anyone mentioning hydrogen generation, much less net energy
    creation!

    John
     
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