RF Helps Dissociate H2 in Sea Water?

I gotta say if this makes substantially more enrgy than it uses that
is one pretty nifty trick.

link:


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070910/ap_on_sc/burning_seawater;_ylt=AnyANg3E_RwkZ.dOHlK18TciANEA


Ed V.

 

It sure won't. But even if it got anywhere near to the energy it uses
it might be useful.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

 

Sea water? Could be the industrial wastes found in sewage that's
doing the burning. This was in Erie, Pennsylvania? Where did he find
the sea water, or was it Lake Erie water? Didn't Lake Erie once catch
fire? I'm suspicious.

Duz anyone know what RF frequency and power levels were used? I wanna
try it.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuyahoga_River

Ohio. Twice even ;-)

Tim

 

This sounds like a crock. If they are dissociating hydrogen from
oxygen, and burning the hydrogen in the resulting oxygen, the energy
in and out is the same. If the reaction involves water and the bit of
salt there, it could produce HCl and NaOH, but at a net energy cost.
The most that could be happening is that they are vaporizing and
ionizing the materials in there, making a rather expensive resistor
load for the RF.

 

Ooh. Perpetual motion using the mysterious RF!!

Someone forgot to do a power budget on the thing. Unless God is in a
really puckish mood and has decided to finally violate the laws of
thermodynamics you'll get less energy from the burning hydrogen than you
put in via the RF -- much less the energy you burn in the RF generator.

Don't they teach these science reporters any science?

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" gives you just what it says.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

 

"John Kanzius happened upon the discovery accidentally when he tried
to desalinate seawater with a radio-frequency generator he developed
to treat cancer."

Obviously multiply bogus.

John

 

Right--cancer cures need magnets.

Grins,
James Arthur

 

http://www.mayoclinic.org/radiofrequency-ablation/

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

 

Maybe I 'm missing something, but it seems this guy passed an electric
current though salt water and produced H2. He used RF rather than the
more usual DC but I can't see how this is any different from the
electrolysis experiments I did at school.


--

 

I can't see how it will be any better than electrolysis using DC. In
fact I think it will be a lot worse - at least with DC you can separate
the hydrogen and oxygen.

--

 

you never know
http://www.physorg.com/news108638931.html


Martin

 

a badly polluted river in Cleveland once caught fire,IIRC.
Cleveland once was known as the "mistake on the lake".


Lake Erie never caught fire.

 

Sounds like a expensive way to stir and warm the mash.

 

Good point, but I don't think that's what this Mr. Wizard's up to:



Cheers,
James Arthur

 

Yes, I know. Just practicing some FUD and promoting suscpicion and
paranoia.

TV video clip at:
<>
Looks like John Kanzius lives on Sanibel Island, Florida, where salt
water is commonly available. So much for the burning lake theory.

I've always been suspicious of pronoucements that are lacking in
numbers. In this case, the frequency and power level of the RF are
conspicuously absent. The RF generator or amplifier appears in the
above video, but I can't identify the manufacturer. I also could not
see an antenna or radiator. However, there was a frame showing the
meter on the front panel, which indicates 1400 watts full scale. It's
going to take a might big flame to generate that much input power. So
much for perpetual motion. I wonder if anyone is checking for
exessive RF exposure.

Ah, this video has a somewhat better photo of the amplifier.
<>
Kanzius mumbles that it's a 13.56MHz transmitter.

 

Sure takes a lot of energy to excite a fluorescent tube. There's actually a transmitter in Alaska that you can stand beneath
and will excite a fluro tube. I think its a 250kw transmitter.

Cheers

 

Not so obviously about the cancer cure. He is suggesting small bits
of metal be stuck to the cancer cells (the tricky bit) and then RF to
heat the cells with the metal bits. If the fist step can be done,
they may be something to it. Some cancer cells can be chemically
recognized by their surfaces.

 

Gold nanoparticles will bind to EFGR receptors found in great quanity
on the surface of cancer cells. Normal cells also have them, but in
much smaller quantities. The method is being currently being tested
as a method of cancer detection. If Kanzius is successful, it may
also turn into a method of treatment.

<http://www.gatech.edu/news-room/release.php?id=561>
<http://www.news-medical.net/?id=28253>

The gold nanoparticles can also be used to deliver drugs and DNA
treatment to the cancer cells, while avoiding normal cells.

<http://www.nsf.gov/news/news_summ.jsp?cntn_id=106998>

 

But how would microwaves desalinate water? You'd blast a tank of water
with RF, and the salt would go... where?

And very high power microwave systems have used waveguide water loads,
and water calorimeter-type power meters, for 60 years or more. I don't
recall anyone mentioning hydrogen generation, much less net energy
creation!

John