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Rewiring a ballast. Help needed.

S

Sean

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hello, I am having some trouble rewiring a ballast. It's an older one that
my wife has above her fish tank. The On/Off switch is flaky (it works about
30% of the time) so she wants to set it up on a timer to go on and off for
her fish.
I am trying to bypass the on/off switch, but I am having some trouble as it
is an older ballast.
Here's the scoop.
It is a 4 foot single lamp ballast.
There is the standard black and white wires, plus a blue wire. (I am used to
seeing 6 wires in a 2 lamp system.)
The black goes to the Power. The white goes to the right hand side of the
lamp. The blue goes to the left hand side. Coming from the left side of the
lamp is another black that connect to the top left of the on/off switch. The
top right of the switch goes to the right side of the lamp. The bottom right
of the switch goes to the other connector on the right side of the lamp. The
bottom left of the switch goes back to Power.
I am sorry if this is a little complicated, but that's the best I can do in
writing.
I figured that I should connect the black from the left side of the lamp to
one of the wires on the right side of the lamp, and connect the other wire
from the right side back to power. That doesn't work. (I get a very low glow
from half the bulb, but it doesn't go on.)
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Here are the specs on the ballast in case they are needed:
120V 60hz .55 amp
Keystone Transformer Co.
Cat no. M4OP
40 W Ballast.

Thanks a lot!
Sean.
 
J

Jerry G.

Jan 1, 1970
0
Excellent webpage about fluorescent lamp theory, and how to wire them. There
are some ASCII type diagrams towards the bottom of the document. The
diagrams shown, are very standard.

http://members.misty.com/don/f-lamp.html#int0

--

Jerry G.
======


Hello, I am having some trouble rewiring a ballast. It's an older one that
my wife has above her fish tank. The On/Off switch is flaky (it works about
30% of the time) so she wants to set it up on a timer to go on and off for
her fish.
I am trying to bypass the on/off switch, but I am having some trouble as it
is an older ballast.
Here's the scoop.
It is a 4 foot single lamp ballast.
There is the standard black and white wires, plus a blue wire. (I am used to
seeing 6 wires in a 2 lamp system.)
The black goes to the Power. The white goes to the right hand side of the
lamp. The blue goes to the left hand side. Coming from the left side of the
lamp is another black that connect to the top left of the on/off switch. The
top right of the switch goes to the right side of the lamp. The bottom right
of the switch goes to the other connector on the right side of the lamp. The
bottom left of the switch goes back to Power.
I am sorry if this is a little complicated, but that's the best I can do in
writing.
I figured that I should connect the black from the left side of the lamp to
one of the wires on the right side of the lamp, and connect the other wire
from the right side back to power. That doesn't work. (I get a very low glow
from half the bulb, but it doesn't go on.)
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Here are the specs on the ballast in case they are needed:
120V 60hz .55 amp
Keystone Transformer Co.
Cat no. M4OP
40 W Ballast.

Thanks a lot!
Sean.
 
V

Victor Roberts

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hello, I am having some trouble rewiring a ballast. It's an older one that
my wife has above her fish tank. The On/Off switch is flaky (it works about
30% of the time) so she wants to set it up on a timer to go on and off for
her fish.
I am trying to bypass the on/off switch, but I am having some trouble as it
is an older ballast.
Here's the scoop.
It is a 4 foot single lamp ballast.
There is the standard black and white wires, plus a blue wire. (I am used to
seeing 6 wires in a 2 lamp system.)
The black goes to the Power. The white goes to the right hand side of the
lamp. The blue goes to the left hand side. Coming from the left side of the
lamp is another black that connect to the top left of the on/off switch. The
top right of the switch goes to the right side of the lamp. The bottom right
of the switch goes to the other connector on the right side of the lamp. The
bottom left of the switch goes back to Power.
I am sorry if this is a little complicated, but that's the best I can do in
writing.
I figured that I should connect the black from the left side of the lamp to
one of the wires on the right side of the lamp, and connect the other wire
from the right side back to power. That doesn't work. (I get a very low glow
from half the bulb, but it doesn't go on.)
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Here are the specs on the ballast in case they are needed:
120V 60hz .55 amp
Keystone Transformer Co.
Cat no. M4OP
40 W Ballast.

If I understand all this correctly the switch has four connections. Is
that correct? From your description is seems that this is a Preheat
(switch start) circuit and you will not be able to replace the
four-contact switch with a two-contact switch of any type. The switch
provides the functions of both power switch and starter switch. (It
must have three positions, even if one is momentary: Off, On, and
Start.) You could use a standard power switch and then a glow bottle
starter - if you can find one to match your lamp - but you would be
better off replacing the ballast with something more modern that can
be controlled with a simple series switch.

--
Vic Roberts
http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com
To reply via e-mail:
replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address
or use e-mail address listed at the Web site.
 
N

NSM

Jan 1, 1970
0
Sean said:
Hello, I am having some trouble rewiring a ballast. It's an older one that
my wife has above her fish tank. The On/Off switch is flaky (it works about
30% of the time) so she wants to set it up on a timer to go on and off for
her fish.
I am trying to bypass the on/off switch, but I am having some trouble as it
is an older ballast.
Here's the scoop.
It is a 4 foot single lamp ballast.
There is the standard black and white wires, plus a blue wire. (I am used to
seeing 6 wires in a 2 lamp system.) ...

I bet you press and hold the switch, then release it. During the press and
hold the lamp is shorted out to preheat the filaments. You need the special
switch. Ask at a hardware store, but make sure the guy knows what he is
talking about.

N
 
S

Sean

Jan 1, 1970
0
Thanks for the reference. The diagrams help a lot.
Sean.
 
S

Sean

Jan 1, 1970
0
Thanks for the answer. I was hoping to simply bypass the switch, but it
doesn't look like that is going to happen. I guess I'll have to replace the
ballast after all.
Thanks, Sean
 
J

James Sweet

Jan 1, 1970
0
Sean said:
Hello, I am having some trouble rewiring a ballast. It's an older one that
my wife has above her fish tank. The On/Off switch is flaky (it works about
30% of the time) so she wants to set it up on a timer to go on and off for
her fish.
I am trying to bypass the on/off switch, but I am having some trouble as it
is an older ballast.
Here's the scoop.
It is a 4 foot single lamp ballast.
There is the standard black and white wires, plus a blue wire. (I am used to
seeing 6 wires in a 2 lamp system.)
The black goes to the Power. The white goes to the right hand side of the
lamp. The blue goes to the left hand side. Coming from the left side of the
lamp is another black that connect to the top left of the on/off switch. The
top right of the switch goes to the right side of the lamp. The bottom right
of the switch goes to the other connector on the right side of the lamp. The
bottom left of the switch goes back to Power.
I am sorry if this is a little complicated, but that's the best I can do in
writing.
I figured that I should connect the black from the left side of the lamp to
one of the wires on the right side of the lamp, and connect the other wire
from the right side back to power. That doesn't work. (I get a very low glow
from half the bulb, but it doesn't go on.)
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Here are the specs on the ballast in case they are needed:
120V 60hz .55 amp
Keystone Transformer Co.
Cat no. M4OP
40 W Ballast.

Thanks a lot!
Sean.

While it's hard for me to visualize without a drawing, it sounds somewhat
like a switch start preheat ballast where you turn the switch on and hold it
for a moment to preheat the cathodes. If that's the case then to bypass it
you would need to install a starter in place of the starting contacts in the
power switch.
 
J

James Sweet

Jan 1, 1970
0
Sean said:
Thanks for the answer. I was hoping to simply bypass the switch, but it
doesn't look like that is going to happen. I guess I'll have to replace the
ballast after all.
Thanks, Sean

You can buy a glowbottle starter at any hardware store, usually under a
dollar.
 
V

Victor Roberts

Jan 1, 1970
0
You can buy a glowbottle starter at any hardware store, usually under a
dollar.

But it must match his lamp. While the Op did not give us lamp data, he
indicated it was a 40-watt ballast. Therefore I am assuming the lamp
is a 40-watt or 34-watt lamp (until I get better information.) If the
OP lives in the US, I do not believe he can purchase a glow starter
for 40-watt lamps since they will not operate from 120 volt power
supplies. if the OP lives in a part of the work where the normal
supply voltage is 220 to 240 volts, he should be able to find a glow
starter.

--
Vic Roberts
http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com
To reply via e-mail:
replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address
or use e-mail address listed at the Web site.
 
J

James Sweet

Jan 1, 1970
0
Victor Roberts said:
But it must match his lamp. While the Op did not give us lamp data, he
indicated it was a 40-watt ballast. Therefore I am assuming the lamp
is a 40-watt or 34-watt lamp (until I get better information.) If the
OP lives in the US, I do not believe he can purchase a glow starter
for 40-watt lamps since they will not operate from 120 volt power
supplies. if the OP lives in a part of the work where the normal
supply voltage is 220 to 240 volts, he should be able to find a glow
starter.

40W glowbottle starters are readily available in the US, they were widely
used up until the 70's when rapid start came out and there's still quite a
few old fixtures that use them. I have a 4 lamp 4' preheat fixture from the
60's that uses 120v autotransformer ballasts and glowbottle starters.

I have found also that starters are quite non critical, and I've used a 20W
starter in a pinch, though it likely wouldn't last as long.
 
D

Dan

Jan 1, 1970
0
I appreciate your desire to get this to work & the fun/challenge
therein, but should it prove to be more f'ing around than it's worth,
keep in mind you can buy a brand new 4' single tube starterless light
for $10-15. They usually come "knocked down", so it would be a pretty
easy task to fit the new ballast etc to the existing fixture/fish tank,
should you not be able to use the entire new fixture itself.

Dan
 
V

Victor Roberts

Jan 1, 1970
0
40W glowbottle starters are readily available in the US, they were widely
used up until the 70's when rapid start came out and there's still quite a
few old fixtures that use them. I have a 4 lamp 4' preheat fixture from the
60's that uses 120v autotransformer ballasts and glowbottle starters.

Actually rapid start is much older than the 1970's, but you are
correct about 40-watt preheat start lamps. The 1981 IES Handbook lists
both 40-watt T12 and 90-watt T17 preheat start lamps. Thanks - I
learned something new today.

--
Vic Roberts
http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com
To reply via e-mail:
replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address
or use e-mail address listed at the Web site.
 
J

James Sweet

Jan 1, 1970
0
Victor Roberts said:
Actually rapid start is much older than the 1970's, but you are
correct about 40-watt preheat start lamps. The 1981 IES Handbook lists
both 40-watt T12 and 90-watt T17 preheat start lamps. Thanks - I
learned something new today.

Perhaps it was 60's? I'm not sure really, but I do know that preheat start
40W tubes were very common in the 50's and at least partly into the 60's, RS
didn't seem to catch on until the 70's. One possible reason is that RS has
much more trouble starting in cold weather or high humidity and requires a
grounded reflector in close proximity to the lamp.

The 90W T17 lamps are dinosaurs, I've never actually seen one up close but
they were used in streetlighting some in the 50's. Another neat lamp I'd
love to get my hands on are the GE PowerGroove PG17 series of VHO (1500mA)
lamps that were somewhat common in the 70's. They use a rippled tube that
allows a 9' arc length in an 8' tube and were available in 4' as well.
 
N

NSM

Jan 1, 1970
0
Sean said:
Thanks for the answer. I was hoping to simply bypass the switch, but it
doesn't look like that is going to happen. I guess I'll have to replace the
ballast after all.

Add a glow lamp starter to the circuit. That should work fine with the
existing ballast. Otherwise you'll need a complete new ballast, and a
complete new lamp is cheaper. In Canada you can get models with an
electronic ballast quite cheap. Home Depot or Rona will have these -
possibly on sale. They plug in, so you can plug it into a wall timer. Easy,
cheap!

N
 
V

Victor Roberts

Jan 1, 1970
0
Perhaps it was 60's? I'm not sure really, but I do know that preheat start
40W tubes were very common in the 50's and at least partly into the 60's, RS
didn't seem to catch on until the 70's. One possible reason is that RS has
much more trouble starting in cold weather or high humidity and requires a
grounded reflector in close proximity to the lamp.

We need some input from Terry here, but we developed the 34-watt T12
energy saving lamp while I was working at GE Lighting in the
mid-1970's. One problem with the lamp was that due to the lower lamp
voltage the 34-watt lamp placed more voltage stress on the internal
capacitor in rapid start ballasts. When the new 34-watt lamp was
installed in fixtures with old rapid start ballasts, many of the
capacitors, which were near end of life anyway, blew. So these
ballasts must have been almost 20 years old by 1975- which means they
were popular by the mid-1950s. By the mid-1970's the 40-watt rapid
start lamp was nearing the end of its life due to the new 34-watt
rapid start lamp.
The 90W T17 lamps are dinosaurs, I've never actually seen one up close but
they were used in streetlighting some in the 50's. Another neat lamp I'd
love to get my hands on are the GE PowerGroove PG17 series of VHO (1500mA)
lamps that were somewhat common in the 70's. They use a rippled tube that
allows a 9' arc length in an 8' tube and were available in 4' as well.

Well, we had lots of Power Groove lamps at Nela Park along with its
inventor - who I believe was Gene Lemmers - who also co-invented the
rapid start ballast, I believe with John Aicher. Terry, can you help
here? The Power Groove lamp was introduced by GE about 1956 and was a
rapid start lamp, so the basic rapid start system must be older than
that.

--
Vic Roberts
http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com
To reply via e-mail:
replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address
or use e-mail address listed at the Web site.
 
J

James Sweet

Jan 1, 1970
0
We need some input from Terry here, but we developed the 34-watt T12
energy saving lamp while I was working at GE Lighting in the
mid-1970's. One problem with the lamp was that due to the lower lamp
voltage the 34-watt lamp placed more voltage stress on the internal
capacitor in rapid start ballasts. When the new 34-watt lamp was
installed in fixtures with old rapid start ballasts, many of the
capacitors, which were near end of life anyway, blew. So these
ballasts must have been almost 20 years old by 1975- which means they
were popular by the mid-1950s. By the mid-1970's the 40-watt rapid
start lamp was nearing the end of its life due to the new 34-watt
rapid start lamp.

Those 34W lamps were (and are) awful, always dim and they flicker if it's
even a bit chilly. I always thought it was so silly that with the
regulations for efficiency of the lamps and ballasts the end result was that
we had more efficient but dim lamps so you had to use more of them resulting
in a net increase in ballast losses and overall power.
Well, we had lots of Power Groove lamps at Nela Park along with its
inventor - who I believe was Gene Lemmers - who also co-invented the
rapid start ballast, I believe with John Aicher. Terry, can you help
here? The Power Groove lamp was introduced by GE about 1956 and was a
rapid start lamp, so the basic rapid start system must be older than
that.

I didn't realize the PG's came out so long ago. HO and VHO have always been
RS as far as I know, for some reason it took longer for RS to catch on for
indoor use though, I'm not really sure why. You don't see many PG lamps
anymore, I think only the 96" version is still in production. VHO in general
is not real popular these days, I have a couple 4' VHO fixtures in my
garage, they're very bright but not real efficient and the phosphor is hit
so hard with UV that it degrades fairly rapidly. It'd probably work well
using a modern trichromatic phosphor but as far as I know nobody makes
those.
 
S

Sean

Jan 1, 1970
0
I'll try and locate a glow bottle. I live in a small town in Canada, and
there is not a lot of selection in some of the local stores. I'll try Radio
Shack and the local lumberyard, but I am not holding my breath. I'll have to
wait until I can get down to the "Big City" and see if I can locate one
there.
How would I wire the glow bottle into the circuit that I described? (With
the intention that the light is "always" in On mode. The timer will be
taking care of turning it on and off.)
Thanks, Sean
 
V

Victor Roberts

Jan 1, 1970
0
I'll try and locate a glow bottle. I live in a small town in Canada, and
there is not a lot of selection in some of the local stores. I'll try Radio
Shack and the local lumberyard, but I am not holding my breath. I'll have to
wait until I can get down to the "Big City" and see if I can locate one
there.
How would I wire the glow bottle into the circuit that I described? (With
the intention that the light is "always" in On mode. The timer will be
taking care of turning it on and off.)

Someone else gave you a link to Don's lighting site. Look and the
second diagram under preheat start. That being said, you need more
information than you provided in your original note.

You will see from Don's diagram and perhaps your own experience, that
each end of the lamp has two pins. You have told us in your original
note that a certain wire goes to a certain end of the lamp, but NOT TO
WHICH PIN, which is critical.

Based on what you wrote, I THINK that the starter would wired to the
two wires that go respectively to the top left and top right contact
of your switch. But this is ONLY correct if the wire currently
connected to the top right hand contact of the switch is also
connected to the pin on the right side of the lamp that does NOT also
connect to the power line. I assume that the white lead from the
ballast goes to the SAME lamp pin as the power line, so there are two
wires connected to this AND ONLY THIS lamp pin.

If my assumptions about which wires go to which lamp pins are not
correct, then the rest of my suggestions should be ignored.

If the above is correct, then the timer switch is wired between the
two bottom contacts of the switch.

The information above is provided for educational purposes and you are
responsible for understanding the hazards of working with electrical
circuits and any damage to person or property that may result from
experimenting with this lamp circuit.

--
Vic Roberts
http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com
To reply via e-mail:
replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address
or use e-mail address listed at the Web site.
 
S

Sam Goldwasser

Jan 1, 1970
0
Victor Roberts said:
Someone else gave you a link to Don's lighting site. Look and the
second diagram under preheat start. That being said, you need more
information than you provided in your original note.

You will see from Don's diagram and perhaps your own experience, that

Actually, they are my diagrams. :)
each end of the lamp has two pins. You have told us in your original
note that a certain wire goes to a certain end of the lamp, but NOT TO
WHICH PIN, which is critical.

Huh? Unless I misunderstand your statement, it is irrelevant.

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V

Victor Roberts

Jan 1, 1970
0
Actually, they are my diagrams. :)

I apologize for the error.
Huh? Unless I misunderstand your statement, it is irrelevant.

The OP has described 5 wires going to a 4-pin lamp - so (at least) one
lamp pin must have two wires. One of those 5 wires goes directly to
the power line. He must not connect the starter to the lamp pin that
is connected to the power line. As you know, the starter is to be
connected from one end of the lamp to the other, and connected to the
side of each electrodes that is not connected to the ballast or power
line per _your_ diagram :)

--
Vic Roberts
http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com
To reply via e-mail:
replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address
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