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Request to Exit PIR

M

Marc

Jan 1, 1970
0
I have never installed one but I do not understand waht they really do/are.
Yes i know what a motion is and this would go for the person leaving, but
can someone explain more about it or have some literature i can read on it?

Thanks

Marc
 
J

Jackcsg

Jan 1, 1970
0
REX PIR's are typically used to (when activated) supply an input to an
access control panel to 1. Shunt a door contact 2. Release a locking device.
But they can be used, and come in a variety of configurations. Typically
they have form "C" contacts NO/NC, and a timing circuit which adjustable for
the application. REX PIR's typically are used in high-traffic exit areas, or
areas of public egress who are not familiar with the security functions of
the building; such as a multi-tenant situation. I have used them on standard
doors just to provide a "door shunt" for egress. You have to be careful
where you use them though, anyone approaching an exit door will activate it,
as well as at some double door (glass) exterior doors by slipping an item
through the crack between the double doors. A stairwell door would be a good
example for shunting a door contact even when no access control is used or
required, for signals such as a forced door open, or an open to long (Ajar)
signal.

Jack
 
F

Frank Olson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Marc said:
I have never installed one but I do not understand waht they really do/are.
Yes i know what a motion is and this would go for the person leaving, but
can someone explain more about it or have some literature i can read on it?

Thanks

Marc


I'm always cautious when it comes to using motion sensors to activate an
exit door. In some situations (like a glassed in elevator lobby in a
parkade) you may not want the door to open as soon as you step off the
elevator (or come through the exit stairs). There may be "undesireable"
looking individuals hanging around and walking into that environment (or
opening the lobby door) may not be a good thing to do. In situations like
this I prefer recommending the use of a large "Push to Exit" button (that's
illuminated when the door's locked for the evening). This puts the control
of the door back into the hands of the tenant (or legitimate visitor) and
not some "brainless" piece of hardware. I can count on two fingers the
number of projects we've serviced that have PIR's controlling the exit
function and they're public Governement buildings...

Mind you, it's important you check with your local AHJ to ensure what you
are going to use meets the local building code and ordinances. In some
situations (where the potential for personal injury or attack may be a real
cause for concern) they're more than willing to give you a break. An
"equivalency letter" is not always easy to get and is provided on individual
circumstance (at least in Vancouver)..
 
I

Interested

Jan 1, 1970
0
First - What's more common RTE or RTX? Up till this thread I had
always seen it as RTX...

Another solution to the RTX appears to be using electrified
hardware... The university I'm at uses Sargent 80-series with a 55/56
prefix and some 10-line levers
(http://www.sargentlock.com/products/electro/product_group.php)...
They behave exactly like a regular "panic bar" or lever handle...

Hitting the panic bar triggers the RTX and mechanically releases the
lock [i.e. if the access control system failed the door hardware would
still function] (Its quite interesting with a bank of doors to watch
all of the panic bars momentarially "suck in" when you push one down
and then pop back out.)

With a very very very few exceptions every "outside" door on campus is
card-controlled, as well all of the computer lab doors, and all is
controlled as part of the building automation system (For example:
Mon-Fri at 6:45 AM the A/C kicks on, the hallway lighting goes from
"minimal" to "full", and all of the doors automagically unlock; at
10:00 PM (earlier on some computer labs/special classrooms) the
hallway lighting goes back to minimal, the A/C is shut down, and the
doors are all automagically re-locked).

My favorite part is there is no special knowledge required: When you
want to leave, you just push on the door. No RTX button, no RTX
motion, just press the bar and walk out.

In fact, I'd be willing to bet that greater than 50% of our
faculty/staff/students don't even realize that the doors lock and
unlock themselves.
 
J

Jackcsg

Jan 1, 1970
0
Depends on the Manufacturers Nomenclature; RTE, REX, RTX there all the same.

Jack

Interested said:
First - What's more common RTE or RTX? Up till this thread I had
always seen it as RTX...

Another solution to the RTX appears to be using electrified
hardware... The university I'm at uses Sargent 80-series with a 55/56
prefix and some 10-line levers
(http://www.sargentlock.com/products/electro/product_group.php)...
They behave exactly like a regular "panic bar" or lever handle...

Hitting the panic bar triggers the RTX and mechanically releases the
lock [i.e. if the access control system failed the door hardware would
still function] (Its quite interesting with a bank of doors to watch
all of the panic bars momentarially "suck in" when you push one down
and then pop back out.)

With a very very very few exceptions every "outside" door on campus is
card-controlled, as well all of the computer lab doors, and all is
controlled as part of the building automation system (For example:
Mon-Fri at 6:45 AM the A/C kicks on, the hallway lighting goes from
"minimal" to "full", and all of the doors automagically unlock; at
10:00 PM (earlier on some computer labs/special classrooms) the
hallway lighting goes back to minimal, the A/C is shut down, and the
doors are all automagically re-locked).

My favorite part is there is no special knowledge required: When you
want to leave, you just push on the door. No RTX button, no RTX
motion, just press the bar and walk out.

In fact, I'd be willing to bet that greater than 50% of our
faculty/staff/students don't even realize that the doors lock and
unlock themselves.

"Frank Olson" <(use the form in my sig line) [email protected]> wrote in
message news: said:
on
it?


I'm always cautious when it comes to using motion sensors to activate an
exit door. In some situations (like a glassed in elevator lobby in a
parkade) you may not want the door to open as soon as you step off the
elevator (or come through the exit stairs). There may be "undesireable"
looking individuals hanging around and walking into that environment (or
opening the lobby door) may not be a good thing to do. In situations like
this I prefer recommending the use of a large "Push to Exit" button (that's
illuminated when the door's locked for the evening). This puts the control
of the door back into the hands of the tenant (or legitimate visitor) and
not some "brainless" piece of hardware. I can count on two fingers the
number of projects we've serviced that have PIR's controlling the exit
function and they're public Governement buildings...

Mind you, it's important you check with your local AHJ to ensure what you
are going to use meets the local building code and ordinances. In some
situations (where the potential for personal injury or attack may be a real
cause for concern) they're more than willing to give you a break. An
"equivalency letter" is not always easy to get and is provided on individual
circumstance (at least in Vancouver)..
 
J

Jackcsg

Jan 1, 1970
0
I agree Jim. Relying on anything electronic to release a door is risky. When
I install a Maglock, even though my control panel releases on Fire, I always
have a Manual Pull station, which provides a physical means of disconnect,
marked "Emergency Door Release" in BLUE. Most AHJ's will not except
electronic overrides such as timers, "touch bars", or even egress Maglocks.
Emergency situations do not only happen from a fire alarm activation.
Devices, and Controllers Fail, more often than power supplies. It's an added
cost, but the liability issues are well worth it. A lot of dealers usually
miss this concept.

Jack
 
J

J. Sloud

Jan 1, 1970
0
I've used RTE motion detectors in combination with lighted "EXIT" buttons
and/or panic bars on various jobs, including churches and theaters. None of
these has ever been faulted by the AHJ.

Regards,
Robert
If I remember correctly, NFPA 101 states that you must have a REX
motion and a REX button at least 2" wide marked "PUSH TO EXIT" located
within 5 feet of the door. You also must connect to the building fire
alarm system if one exists.

Delayed egress must be activated by pressing on the door for 15
seconds while an audible alarm sounds. After 15 seconds the door must
open.

To answer the original poster's question, REX motions have several
different uses, but the most common are:

- to release a maglock providing free egress from inside a secured
space.
- to shunt a contact to prevent an alarm signal from being generated
by an access control system or IDS.
- to provide a "curtain" detection pattern, ex. two detectors and a
simple logic device can determine direction of travel
 
F

Frank Olson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Strange. Why the halon system? I've seen plenty of them installed in
commercial kitchens and such but never in a mail room.


Strange. I've seen plenty of them installed in *data* rooms (which he said
was part of the mailroom), but never in a commercial kitchen. The latter
usually had some sort of water based deluge system for the exhaust hood or a
fixed dry/wet chemical extinguisher system. At the temperatures most grease
fires can attain, Halon tends to break down into its constituent components
some of which are lethal (like Bromine).
 
J

Jackcsg

Jan 1, 1970
0
Halon was a fad in the mid-late 80's until a few people were killed from
accidental releases, and releases in general. If people work in a confined
room, Halon would literally consume the oxygen, and starve the 02.
As for Catholic's, Robert, don't get me started on that.

Jack
 
J

J. Sloud

Jan 1, 1970
0
"Delayed egress must be activated by pressing on the door for 15
seconds while an audible alarm sounds. After 15 seconds the door must
open."

Electronic timer? Putting added liability in the hopes that this device will
perform doesn't fly with me.

It's not what I'm saying, it's what NFPA 101 Life Safety Code says.
There are times when the secured space is actually outside the
building, and the purpose of the locking device is to prevent
unathorized persons from leaving the building. However, during a fire
or other emergency, life safety becomes more important than security,
and the doors must open to allow egress into a secured area. The
timer gives security personnel a 15 second chance to respond before
the door is openned. An physical disconnect would allow an immediate
exit into a secured space. Not something you want to have happen.
 
J

J. Sloud

Jan 1, 1970
0
Several people already answered the question.

True, but I offered my opinion anyway. I also noticed that several
people here also proposed possible "solutions" to allow free egress
into a protected space without mentioning the code that generally
addresses the issue. Ignoring Life Safety Code could be an expensive
choice or worse...
 
J

Jackcsg

Jan 1, 1970
0
I didn't say I would disarm the area. Security is still present. The Manual
Pull stations I use have a DPDT set of contacts which I monitor as a
separate zone. Pulling the Station would not effect the security portion of
the system. I hear what your saying. But 15 second response? Maybe with
Video Verification. You have a donut factor you know...

Jack
 
J

Jackcsg

Jan 1, 1970
0
I agree. But, life safety comes first. The area is still protected, just not
secure. Kinda like the guy who arms his system, but forgets to lock the back
door. Is his place protected? yup. Secure? nope. The alarm will still sound.
The customer would be notified of this action. That's the beauty of access
control, for every action, you must be familiar with the reactions, and more
importantly the consequences.

Jack
 
F

Frank Olson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jackcsg said:
Halon was a fad in the mid-late 80's until a few people were killed from
accidental releases, and releases in general. If people work in a confined
room, Halon would literally consume the oxygen, and starve the 02.
As for Catholic's, Robert, don't get me started on that.

The use of Halon wasn't discontinued because a "few people were killed" (I
actually don't recall seeing anything in the news about that). It's a CFC
and definitely not friendly to the Ozone layer.
 
J

Jackcsg

Jan 1, 1970
0
That's funny. Where did I say it was discontinued? It is still in use here
in the US, and has some applicable uses. When I was in the US Navy, 6 crew
members were killed from the accidental release of Halon in a closed
compartment during a fire drill. I'm sorry Frank, now you can add that to
your list of knowledge. I'm sure I can find the names of these sailors, if
you want to contact their families.
Let me know.

Jack
2 cents in 2 cents out
 
J

Jackcsg

Jan 1, 1970
0
Your absolutely right, there are allot of determining factors. The level of
security, the public, the fire alarm level etc.. I have always tried to
design around worst case scenario's, and especially with the AHJ, and common
sense in mind. Like I said before, the AHJ is the king, some care, some
don't, but either way I like to have either understand the operation. There
are levels of security, and levels of safety. AHJ's are often like Directors
of Security, although the role is reversed. When both get involved with both
the safety aspects, along with the security aspects, it makes life easier.
Re-actions...determine them....first.

Jack
 
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