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Replacement picture tube out of warranty?

Discussion in 'Electronic Repair' started by Fraser, Dec 24, 2003.

  1. Fraser

    Fraser Guest

    Hi All,

    My 3.5 year old Toshiba 32" widescreen has died, due to a faulty picture
    tube. The problem is that now and again the green gun overloads, filling the
    screen with a green zig-zag pattern, then the TV shuts down. The repair shop
    say this is due to a bad design in the picture tube, causing overheating.
    This is a well known problem in this tube (Philips) apparently, and this
    tube is no longer used in new products.

    Now, my question is, can I get Toshiba to provide me with a replacement
    picture tube without me having to pay for it? IMHO, the set was very very
    expensive when I bought it, and a three and a half year life span is simply
    unacceptable for something like this. Is there any recourse under UK law to
    do this? I was thinking about going along the usual "fit for purpose" and
    "merchantable quality" lines. Does anyone know of any successes/failures of
    people trying to do this?

    I've googled around, but couldn't see anything. I swear I read/heard
    something about forcing electronics manufacturers to repair out with
    warranty, but I can't remember or find the source.

    Thanks in advance,

    Fraser.
     
  2. Stuart

    Stuart Guest

    I have seen it suggested in this NG -uk.diy,that 6 years is a reasonable
    time to expect such items to "live" but haven't seen anything to back this
    up.
    Stuart
     
  3. techforce

    techforce Guest

    Dunno how Toshiba UK is, but here in the US, they are reluctant to assist to
    a great deal with replacement parts in general. They tend to have a system
    in place where the solution is to buy a New Set. Unless you find a Very good
    Authorized Svc. Center willing to assist you.

    Im not TACP Authorized, but I know Warranties Vary brand to brand. On some
    of the smaller TV's in the 27 Inch Area, the Std Warranty is 1 yr parts and
    labor except for thePicture Tube, which is 3 years. For Projo's and the
    like, I would guess the Tube Warranties are longer?
     
  4. Andy Hall

    Andy Hall Guest

    It isn't the manufacturer's issue directly, it is the retailer's.

    Your contract of purchase is with the retailer and not the
    manufacturer. The warranty is merely a convenience for both the
    retailer and the manufacturer, and during that period they are
    agreeing, subject to certain terms and conditions to fix problems.

    The warranty does not replace your statutory rights. Goods do have to
    be fit for purpose but reasonableness would be applied by the courts.
    In other words, if this were a cheap Chinese TV costing £100 then if
    it failed after 3 years it would probably not be worth pursuing since
    you probably would not be awarded much if anything.

    From a technical perspective, I would expect a CRT in a quality TV to
    last a good 5 years depending on amount of use.

    Given this and that the product was expensive, I think that you can
    make a very reasonable case to the retailer that it needs to be
    addressed at his cost. It's his problem if he wants to take that up
    with the manufacturer but the buck stops with the retailer from your
    perspective.

    I would suggest contacting the manager of the store where you bought
    the product and if need be the area manager. If you meet with
    resistance, put the claim in writing and send by special delivery.

    You have the option of pursuing a complaint through the Small Claims
    Division of the court. This can be done as a DIY exercise. In the
    context of a TV, I would not consider using a solicitor for this
    because the meter will run rapidly.

    Ultimately you have to decide whether the time and cost of pursuing
    are justified.


    ..andy

    To email, substitute .nospam with .gl
     
  5. Sparks

    Sparks Guest

    Fraser.
    Have a look on www.tradingstandards.gov.uk they have a lot of information in
    their advice leaflet's.

    If I were you, I would give Trading Standards a call, and see what they feel
    about it - they will advise you of what to do if they feel you have
    reasonable grounds.

    Just enter your postcode on their site, and it will give you the phone
    number of a local office.

    Sparks...
     
  6. Dave Plowman

    Dave Plowman Guest

    They're pulling your plonker. I can't think of any tube fault that would
    cause a zig-zag pattern - or to cause the SMPS to shut down the set.
     
  7. half_pint

    half_pint Guest

    Well all I can say is if you enjoy viewing anything in widescreen format you
    deserve all you get, its a bloody stupid format, which seems set
    to ruin my TV enjoyment for ever. If your TV won't work have a look
    out of you letter box, you will get a similar effect to WS.
    I believe I mentioned here earlier that WS tubes would be more
    prone to failure for various reason which I won't explore here.
    Why not but a portable and a mignifying lens which stretches the
    picture horizontally? It will be a lot cheaper and more reliable.

    I doubt you will have much luck complaining, because you bought
    a WS in the first place you are already marked out as a mug with
    more money than sense, so they will not be forthcoming.

    Harsh word I know, but true.
    But anyway have a Merry Xmas.
     
  8. have a look at:

    it is up ro you to show that the fault was inherent at time of purchase, you
    can persue a claim against the retailer up to 6 years after purchase - 6
    years is an absolute limit and does not apply to all goods as a matter of
    course

    http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/cgi-bin/calitem.cgi?file=ADV0054-1111.txt
    http://www.dti.gov.uk/ccp/topics1/facts/salegoodsact.htm
    http://www.dti.gov.uk/ccp/topics1/saleandsupply.htm

    there is a good posting at:

    http://www.google.com/groups?hl=en&...00,993912497,993982043,993968990,993964144,99
    3893351,993881376,993859354,993879828,993859643,993374340&seekm=brjuh9%24416
    kb%241%40ID-176063.news.uni-berlin.de#link16
     
  9. Chris Street

    Chris Street Guest

    That's not a tube fault. The line driver or frame flyback is up the
    spout. Failures of the tube itself are very rare - it's always the high
    voltage control circuits that tend to have problems.
    Yes but of the electronics as noted.
    Toshiba are usually quite reasonable which may make your retailer more
    willing to help. As others have noted you need to take it to the
    retailer. They may end up wanting you to pay labour and parts are free -
    it all depends in the end how much you are willing to pay to minimise
    your aggravation, although you shouldn't have to pay anything.

    email me with the TV model and I'll ask a friend who does this sort of
    thing what the cost to the retailer would be - may be handy to know.
     
  10. Andy Hall

    Andy Hall Guest

    Not quite.

    There is a 6 year statute of limitations. This means that you have up
    to 6 years following purchase to pursue a claim. It does not mean
    that the law is providing the equivalent to a 6 year warranty. A test
    of reasonableness in the context of the item, its price, the market
    and the circumstance is used.





    ..andy

    To email, substitute .nospam with .gl
     
  11. That is so nice to hear.
    Good, because with your incredibly limited knowledge of electronics we
    know you will get it totally wrong.
     
  12. Andy Cuffe

    Andy Cuffe Guest


    It sounds like a heater to cathode short in the green gun. This can
    usually be worked around by isolating the heaters from ground. I've
    done it many times in other TVs with good results. If you can't get a
    new CRT for a reasonable price someone may be able to try this.
     
  13. Jerry G.

    Jerry G. Guest

    Where we are located, we are under similar law to that of the UK. The
    warranty has to comply to the purchase agreement contract. TV's without an
    extended warranty are sold with a one year contract. You can optionally
    purchase more time.

    If the tube goes one day after the warranty, the manufacture is legally not
    obliged to change it, or service the set. I tell people that for the little
    more than the cost of the TV set, it is best to buy the extended warranty.
    Servicing a TV set can be expensive. The few extra dollars for the extended
    warranty can be well worth the investment.

    I have heard some people saying that the dealers make a lot of money on
    these warranties. Actually this is not very true. The mark-up on all these
    products is not very great. If the set turns out to be a lemon, the
    manufacture will end up paying the cost of service, and maybe even the
    exchange the set for a new one.

    --

    Greetings,

    Jerry Greenberg GLG Technologies GLG
    =========================================
    WebPage http://www.zoom-one.com
    Electronics http://www.zoom-one.com/electron.htm
    =========================================


    Hi All,

    My 3.5 year old Toshiba 32" widescreen has died, due to a faulty picture
    tube. The problem is that now and again the green gun overloads, filling the
    screen with a green zig-zag pattern, then the TV shuts down. The repair shop
    say this is due to a bad design in the picture tube, causing overheating.
    This is a well known problem in this tube (Philips) apparently, and this
    tube is no longer used in new products.

    Now, my question is, can I get Toshiba to provide me with a replacement
    picture tube without me having to pay for it? IMHO, the set was very very
    expensive when I bought it, and a three and a half year life span is simply
    unacceptable for something like this. Is there any recourse under UK law to
    do this? I was thinking about going along the usual "fit for purpose" and
    "merchantable quality" lines. Does anyone know of any successes/failures of
    people trying to do this?

    I've googled around, but couldn't see anything. I swear I read/heard
    something about forcing electronics manufacturers to repair out with
    warranty, but I can't remember or find the source.

    Thanks in advance,

    Fraser.
     
  14. It's quite common. A cathode short in one of the RGB guns will cause
    the entire screen to turn that colour, and the zig-zag pattern is the
    retrace lines. As the cathodes are fed from a ~200v supply, the load
    caused by a short on this can cause the PSU to go into shutdown to
    protect itself.
     
  15. It most likely is I'm afraid. A fault in the drive electronics would
    result in a permanent failure. The OP says the fault is intermittent.
     
  16. Chris Street

    Chris Street Guest

    I'd beg to disagree. I've had three faults similar to those described
    all of which have been traced to blown FET's or similar in the drive
    electronics.
     
  17. Andy Hall

    Andy Hall Guest

    I have no idea what Canada does, but in this respect it is not similar
    to the UK. The manufacturer and the retailer can provision whatever
    kind of warranty that they like, but it is only a convenience.

    In the UK the retailer may be, and a test of reasonableness,
    accounting for the type of goods and the price is considered by the
    court if the customer wishes to pursue it.

    Retailers and manufacturers do quite well out of customer's ignorance
    of the law and a natural British reticence to complain.
    I'll bet.

    What a surprise.
    A few extra dollars!? In the UK, extended warranties can be 20-25%
    of the new price of a set.
    Here they do. The retailers push them like hell to boost their
    margins. In reality, all that is achieved is the customer not
    having to argue their statutory rights with the retailer. Even then,
    there is typically no guaranteed time to repair.
    Yeah, right.

    As indeed they should do. However, here that is not the customer's
    issue it's the retailer's.


    ..andy

    To email, substitute .nospam with .gl
     
  18. Jet

    Jet Guest

    <<snip>>

    Join the club Stuart...

    Try a Philips 32" widescreen failing after 18 months... :(
     
  19. You have rights under the consumer purchase (or whatever it's called) law
    and should be able to get a replacement of it meneded free of charge. A
    judge would also find a 3.5 year lifespan unaccepatable.


    Go back to shop and ask them to replace or repair it free of charge. Be
    polite etc.

    If they say no tell them you are prepared to do it the 'hard way'.

    Go back home and write a recorded letter saying what you want doing. Keep
    it short and polite.

    Then make a claim under small claims. Info on web sites.

    All a bit time consuming but you can claim for time taken off work and
    travel expenses, and you may find the claim process galvanises the shop
    into action before going to court.

    Good luck,

    Neil
     
  20. Bill Renfro

    Bill Renfro Guest

    Could be a fault in the drive circuits, not the tube.
    If it is the tube and Toshiba will not replace it, the tech should be able
    to isolate the filiment from ground by using a seperate winding on the
    flyback core. Worth a shot before buying a new tv.

    Bill
    Christian Technology
     
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