relays

[Abstract Dissonance]

For my project I have to switch analog signals in certain combinations. I
was going to use reed relays since I prefer to have the least amount of
degredation of the signals from the circuit(which consists basicaly of turn
on and off the signals in different combinations). I have several questions
about relays though that I need to be aware.

1. Do relays retain there state with no power? At first I thought that one
had to switch on the relay by continuously supplying power(i.e. the
"contacts" wouldn't "snap" into an on or off state and say there without
power)... but I'm not sure about this since I've seen some "on" current and
"off" current in the data sheets of some relays. If it is true that one can
just pulse the contacts with the appropriate current to turn them off and
turn them on this would mean that they would require no power when not being
switched?(which is what I would like for my project since it minimizes the
power used since I don't switch very often(few times a min at most)).

2. How do analog switches that use semiconductors compare to relays? I can
get 4x's the number of switches at about the same price as one relay(and I
will be using about 30 relays). Obviously the analog switches have to be
continuously powered which is a drawback but the main thing I'm worried
about is how they will affect the signal. Unfortunately I can't seem to
find any data on that aspect for the relays or analog switches.

3. I will be using some simple microcontroller to control the relays but I
figure that they probably can't supply enough current to the realys to
switch them... I guess I have to read the data sheets and figure out if they
can or not and if they can't I will have to use a transistor to control the
relays?

4. Whats the difference between voltage and currents sensing relays? I
thought all relays needed current to switch? Hence is it just a matter of
how much(i.e., "current sensing" requires a much larger current and voltage
sensing requires a little?)?

5. The only relays I can find seem to come 1 per IC. Is it possible to find
ones that are like spdt(but they alternate so one switches off when the
other switches on)? or even more like how one can get quad analog switches
but instead get quad reed relays(or whatever).

and the last question

6. Where is a good site to buy components from? Right now I've been looking
at Jameco and Newark but Jameco is pretty expensive and as few products but
is easy to navigate and search yet Newark is cheaper and has tons of stuff
but can be very confusing at times on what they are selling and where its
located.

Thanks for any help,
AD

 

[ryan weihl]

For my project I have to switch analog signals in certain
combinations. I was going to use reed relays since I prefer to have
the least amount of degredation of the signals from the circuit(which
consists basicaly of turn on and off the signals in different
combinations). I have several questions about relays though that I
need to be aware.

1. Do relays retain there state with no power? At first I thought
that one had to switch on the relay by continuously supplying
power(i.e. the "contacts" wouldn't "snap" into an on or off state and
say there without power)... but I'm not sure about this since I've
seen some "on" current and "off" current in the data sheets of some
relays. If it is true that one can just pulse the contacts with the
appropriate current to turn them off and turn them on this would mean
that they would require no power when not being switched?(which is
what I would like for my project since it minimizes the power used
since I don't switch very often(few times a min at most)).

you can do that with a bi-stable relay. pulse it on or off.

2. How do analog switches that use semiconductors compare to relays?
I can get 4x's the number of switches at about the same price as one
relay(and I will be using about 30 relays). Obviously the analog
switches have to be continuously powered which is a drawback but the
main thing I'm worried about is how they will affect the signal.
Unfortunately I can't seem to find any data on that aspect for the
relays or analog switches.

3. I will be using some simple microcontroller to control the relays
but I figure that they probably can't supply enough current to the
realys to switch them... I guess I have to read the data sheets and
figure out if they can or not and if they can't I will have to use a
transistor to control the relays?

you should use relay drivers. 8 drivers in a package.

4. Whats the difference between voltage and currents sensing relays?
I thought all relays needed current to switch? Hence is it just a
matter of how much(i.e., "current sensing" requires a much larger
current and voltage sensing requires a little?)?

relays are specified by voltage. for 5v systems you need a
4.5v relay.

5. The only relays I can find seem to come 1 per IC. Is it possible
to find ones that are like spdt(but they alternate so one switches
off when the other switches on)? or even more like how one can get
quad analog switches but instead get quad reed relays(or whatever).

and the last question

6. Where is a good site to buy components from? Right now I've been
looking at Jameco and Newark but Jameco is pretty expensive and as
few products but is easy to navigate and search yet Newark is cheaper
and has tons of stuff but can be very confusing at times on what they
are selling and where its located.

are we talking USA?

Thanks for any help,
AD

--

 

[Rich Webb]

1. Do relays retain there state with no power?

"Latching" relays will, others will not.

2. How do analog switches that use semiconductors compare to relays?

Insufficient information. Your best bet is to look at the datasheets to
see if their behavior is okay in your specific application.

Also, in addition to parts that are labeled as "solid state relays"
check for solid state switches like the 4066 family. Might (or might
not) be a fit.

3. I will be using some simple microcontroller to control the relays but I
figure that they probably can't supply enough current to the realys to
switch them... I guess I have to read the data sheets and figure out if they
can or not and if they can't I will have to use a transistor to control the
relays?

One option is to use a ULN2803 or similar to "boost" the capacity of the
uC output ports. It's basically an array of Darlingtons with a clamping
diode on each. If you do this then you'll need to account for drop
across the bipolars, of course.

4. Whats the difference between voltage and currents sensing relays? I
thought all relays needed current to switch? Hence is it just a matter of
how much(i.e., "current sensing" requires a much larger current and voltage
sensing requires a little?)?

AFAIK these terms are related to "protective" relays, not to the garden
variety switching relays you're looking for.

5. The only relays I can find seem to come 1 per IC. Is it possible to find
ones that are like spdt(but they alternate so one switches off when the
other switches on)? or even more like how one can get quad analog switches
but instead get quad reed relays(or whatever).

In general there's one coil per package so all contacts are thrown at
the same time. Omron, for example, has some 4 pole, double throw relays
in one package but one coil operates all four.

6. Where is a good site to buy components from? Right now I've been looking
at Jameco and Newark but Jameco is pretty expensive and as few products but
is easy to navigate and search yet Newark is cheaper and has tons of stuff
but can be very confusing at times on what they are selling and where its
located.

Ya, Newark could use nicer "drill down" and filtering capabilities.

Also in the majors are Digikey, Mouser, and Allied; check them as well.
However, there are smaller vendors that carry odd lots and surplus items
who might have what you're looking for at better prices. They won't
carry an entire range of sizes/types but may be selling the remaining
418 relays that got designed out of the 2006 model Acme Rocket Powered
Skateboard for a great price (but once those are gone, they may never
have that part again). There are others but the ones I usually check (in
no particular order)

http://www.allelectronics.com/
http://www.mpja.com/
http://www.bgmicro.com/
http://www.futurlec.com/

 

[Dan Hollands]

For my project I have to switch analog signals in certain combinations. I
was going to use reed relays since I prefer to have the least amount of
degredation of the signals from the circuit(which consists basicaly of
turn on and off the signals in different combinations). I have several
questions about relays though that I need to be aware.

1. Do relays retain there state with no power? At first I thought that one
had to switch on the relay by continuously supplying power(i.e. the
"contacts" wouldn't "snap" into an on or off state and say there without
power)... but I'm not sure about this since I've seen some "on" current
and "off" current in the data sheets of some relays. If it is true that
one can just pulse the contacts with the appropriate current to turn them
off and turn them on this would mean that they would require no power when
not being switched?(which is what I would like for my project since it
minimizes the power used since I don't switch very often(few times a min
at most)).

2. How do analog switches that use semiconductors compare to relays? I
can get 4x's the number of switches at about the same price as one
relay(and I will be using about 30 relays). Obviously the analog switches
have to be continuously powered which is a drawback but the main thing I'm
worried about is how they will affect the signal. Unfortunately I can't
seem to find any data on that aspect for the relays or analog switches.

3. I will be using some simple microcontroller to control the relays but I
figure that they probably can't supply enough current to the realys to
switch them... I guess I have to read the data sheets and figure out if
they can or not and if they can't I will have to use a transistor to
control the relays?

4. Whats the difference between voltage and currents sensing relays? I
thought all relays needed current to switch? Hence is it just a matter of
how much(i.e., "current sensing" requires a much larger current and
voltage sensing requires a little?)?

5. The only relays I can find seem to come 1 per IC. Is it possible to
find ones that are like spdt(but they alternate so one switches off when
the other switches on)? or even more like how one can get quad analog
switches but instead get quad reed relays(or whatever).

and the last question

6. Where is a good site to buy components from? Right now I've been
looking at Jameco and Newark but Jameco is pretty expensive and as few
products but is easy to navigate and search yet Newark is cheaper and has
tons of stuff but can be very confusing at times on what they are selling
and where its located.

Thanks for any help,
AD

Most relays require continuous power to stay energized but there are some
types - usually called latching relays that just need a pulse to switch and
no power to remain in the last state.

Whether analog switches will work in your application depends on the signal
being switched. The work well for low power low voltage signals

You will need some type of driver circuit between the micro and the relay

It is possible to get relay with spdt contacts - sometimes called form C
relays
It is also possible to get relays with multiple contacts

The type of relay you want is rated by coil voltage. such as 5v coil or 12v
coil. The data sheet will give the must operate and must drop out voltage

Another source is www.digikey.com - again lots of choices

To find out more about relays choose one that you think might do the job and
get the detailed data sheet from the manufacturers web site.


--
Dan Hollands
1120 S Creek Dr
Webster NY 14580
585-872-2606
[email protected]
www.QuickScoreRace.com

 

[Abstract Dissonance]

Ok, Thanks for all the replies. Very helpful. I think now I might be able to
actually do the project... its so freaken hard to move from the concept to
the real thing ;/

Thanks,
AD

 

[Jasen Betts]

For my project I have to switch analog signals in certain combinations. I
was going to use reed relays since I prefer to have the least amount of
degredation of the signals from the circuit(which consists basicaly of turn
on and off the signals in different combinations). I have several questions
about relays though that I need to be aware.

1. Do relays retain there state with no power?

It can be done. With reed relays one way is to put good magnet near
the coil such that the reed almost switches then a forwards pulse
on the coil will switch the relay on and a reverse pulse will switch
it off.

also latching relays are available that do the same thing

which is what I would like for my project since it minimizes the
power used since I don't switch very often(few times a min at most)).

2. How do analog switches that use semiconductors compare to relays? I can
get 4x's the number of switches at about the same price as one relay(and I
will be using about 30 relays). Obviously the analog switches have to be
continuously powered which is a drawback but the main thing I'm worried
about is how they will affect the signal. Unfortunately I can't seem to
find any data on that aspect for the relays or analog switches.

you'll have to get that info from the data sheets a relay typically has an
on resistance less than 0.01 ohms whereas the switch chips are moore like
10-100

3. I will be using some simple microcontroller to control the relays but I
figure that they probably can't supply enough current to the realys to
switch them...

a few cheap transistors can take care of that. probably about 15c each retail.

I guess I have to read the data sheets and figure out if they
can or not and if they can't I will have to use a transistor to control the
relays?
yes.

4. Whats the difference between voltage and currents sensing relays? I
thought all relays needed current to switch? Hence is it just a matter of
how much(i.e., "current sensing" requires a much larger current and voltage
sensing requires a little?)?

yes I think so. AUIU a current sensing relay has a low resistance and
connects in series with some oother device and switches when it is
operating.

5. The only relays I can find seem to come 1 per IC. Is it possible to find
ones that are like spdt(but they alternate so one switches off when the
other switches on)? or even more like how one can get quad analog switches
but instead get quad reed relays(or whatever).

I've noot seen any like that.

and the last question

6. Where is a good site to buy components from? Right now I've been looking
at Jameco and Newark but Jameco is pretty expensive and as few products but
is easy to navigate and search yet Newark is cheaper and has tons of stuff
but can be very confusing at times on what they are selling and where its
located.

I've heard good things about digikey.

Thanks for any help,
AD

Bye.
Jasen

 

[Rich Grise]

Ok, Thanks for all the replies. Very helpful. I think now I might be able to
actually do the project... its so freaken hard to move from the concept to
the real thing ;/

Thanks,
AD

You need to start with simpler toys. We all did. Remember the dry cell,
one wire, and compass experiment? Another way kewl thing to do is wind a
coil of #24 telephone trunk wire, about 2' long, about 1 1/2" diameter,
about 5-8 turns per inch, air core, and let it dangle from one end, and
pass about an amp through it. ;-)

Have Fun!
Rich